Trump. Bringing back the good old McCarthy era days.

Jan 25, 2011
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https://www.npr.org/2018/07/04/6259...ake-citizenship-from-those-who-lied-to-get-it

So Trump's admin is now looking at creating a "denaturalization task force". The goal is to hunt for people who might have lied or cheated in the application process and get rid of them. They believe they might be able to find thousands to get rid of.

Now, this is not new. There has always been a practice of addressing allegations of cheating the process for naturalization. They are reviewed on a case by case basis as they come up. What's different here is the proactive approach. That hasn't been done since the McCarthy days going after the Red Scare. This is a process that was typically used to ferret out Nazi's and other war criminals previously.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics...p-from-those-suspected-of-irregularities.html

Now the topic of discussion and to put it into perspective. In the last 30 years only 300 people have been "denaturalized". The admin says it won't look to remove people for technicalities but they have lied about their enforcement plans in the past. Do you trust this admin given all it has done so far, the level of extreme incompetence, to do this right and, more importantly, fairly?
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
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I think you have to go beyond Trump here.
If you contemplate the red line laid out from 2013-Trump to now it is quite clear that Trump is not pulling the strings.. Someone like Manafort could have orchestrated this but not Trump.
You have think FSB, what motivation would Putin/Russian intelligence have for this move? It is not to get rid of brown people, so what is it?
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,400
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maybe if they are so terrified of naturalized citizens voting against them, they should stop being colossal, inhuman assholes and work on policies that modern, inclusive, intelligent people support?

How long do they honestly think they can survive by continuing to appeal to the ever-shrinking base of tiny-headed, idiotic inbreeders that make up their base?
 

TheVrolok

Lifer
Dec 11, 2000
24,254
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maybe if they are so terrified of naturalized citizens voting against them, they should stop being colossal, inhuman assholes and work on policies that modern, inclusive, intelligent people support?

How long do they honestly think they can survive by continuing to appeal to the ever-shrinking base of tiny-headed, idiotic inbreeders that make up their base?
To be fair, I think trump, unfortunately, has a really good shot at reelection. He will already be appointing one justice, and possibly another even if he isn't reelected. If is he, he'll almost certainly appoint 2 more. Unless the dems decide to pack the court next time they gain power Trump has already had significant and long lasting impact on this country. They won.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
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To be fair, I think trump, unfortunately, has a really good shot at reelection

I don't think so. Trump was running against another polarizing and uninspiring candidate. Neither was popular outside their party.

Hopefully, that will change. If the Dems play the same old same they still have an advantage because Trump supporters are going to vote for him and that's likely peaked in 2016. Trumpers won't vote for anyone else but Trump so they're a fixed reality, but those who don't like what's happened and independents have a track record to vote against.

Give another Hillary (who I expect to run again) and the now proven abomination in the form of Trump I don't see him winning.
 

TheVrolok

Lifer
Dec 11, 2000
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I don't think so. Trump was running against another polarizing and uninspiring candidate. Neither was popular outside their party.

Hopefully, that will change. If the Dems play the same old same they still have an advantage because Trump supporters are going to vote for him and that's likely peaked in 2016. Trumpers won't vote for anyone else but Trump so they're a fixed reality, but those who don't like what's happened and independents have a track record to vote against.

Give another Hillary (who I expect to run again) and the now proven abomination in the form of Trump I don't see him winning.
I hope you're right, but admittedly I have little faith in the American electorate.
 
Mar 11, 2004
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Uh, so could we use that to oust him and his pack of pieces of shit that consistently got caught fucking lying on their documents "oh, I just forgot!" yeah fucking bullshit. Seriously, is there any topic where they aren't the most guilty of the thing they're trying to condemn others for?

To be fair, I think trump, unfortunately, has a really good shot at reelection. He will already be appointing one justice, and possibly another even if he isn't reelected. If is he, he'll almost certainly appoint 2 more. Unless the dems decide to pack the court next time they gain power Trump has already had significant and long lasting impact on this country. They won.

Even without any of the Supreme Court stuff, the conservatives via Turmp have caused damage that will take decades to undo, if it ever is. And there's too many Americans that want to watch it all burn because they want to make others as miserable as they are.
 
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Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
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I don't think so. Trump was running against another polarizing and uninspiring candidate. Neither was popular outside their party.

Hopefully, that will change. If the Dems play the same old same they still have an advantage because Trump supporters are going to vote for him and that's likely peaked in 2016. Trumpers won't vote for anyone else but Trump so they're a fixed reality, but those who don't like what's happened and independents have a track record to vote against.

Give another Hillary (who I expect to run again) and the now proven abomination in the form of Trump I don't see him winning.
With their current public persona of, "rrreeeeeeee," the Democrats stand no chance of regaining any majority. If the same old same is the Obama-era Democratic party, expect them to keep losing. They need to become the new moderate party ASAP, ditch their fringe, and provide a platform with good practical policy goals. If nothing else, they really need to distance themselves from loony leftist celebrities, control their own idiots, and learn that the MSM are not their friends. Cases like the Sarah Huckabee Sanders harassment, and any time Maxine Waters speaks into a public microphone, do nothing but more harm to the party, and they just keep coming.

OTOH, as an independent that leaned Sanders at first, and was not pro-Trump, while he's not exactly been Oval Office Jesus, I like him better than our last two Presidents, easily. Immigration reform and enforcement has been a campaign issue for longer than I have been alive, with no follow-up. If he can push Congress to do it before November of 2020, regardless of the quality of the package, be prepared to watch those votes roll in. People that keep exaggerating everything his administration does to be like McCarthyism, or Nazism, or that detaining illegals is somehow like putting citizens in concentration camps, are only helping (unless you propose better ways to get the same job done, and unless you include the obstructing lawmakers and past Presidents in your criticisms, where applicable, it looks like you're demonizing the idea of strict immigration enforcement, which has popular support).

So what happened to "smaller less intrusive govt", anyway?
A little victory in 1865? There are probably less than 10 elected national representatives that want smaller government. The Republicans trot the idea out to campaign with for votes, get their gifts from big donors, and then stuff it in a box until the next campaign season.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
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A little victory in 1865? There are probably less than 10 elected national representatives that want smaller government. The Republicans trot the idea out to campaign with for votes, get their gifts from big donors, and then stuff it in a box until the next campaign season.

So, are you for more immigration gestapo, or less?

They fuck decent people over all the time dragging inconsequential crap out of their pasts-

https://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/12/us/12naturalize.html
 

Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
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So, are you for more immigration gestapo, or less?

They fuck decent people over all the time dragging inconsequential crap out of their pasts-

https://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/12/us/12naturalize.html
I'm more for immigration Stasi, if we're going to exaggerate that far. I mean, as I already mentioned, Nazism parallels where they aren't warranted is not a good look, even if they did have the coolest uniforms. Using that kind of rhetoric only serves to further isolate you, and makes you look like you don't think with any nuance, and prioritize emotional thinking over rational thinking.

That article describes a drawn out legal process, not kicking in doors on a whim, and beating or killing families and their friends. It's obviously wrong to kick out someone that has done all the right things over a minor clerical error, but immigration or otherwise, crap like that happens all of the time (and just think, most of the world has far worse legal systems!). It may not even be malicious, like so many people being so used to being overworked that they just stamp and move on. People being legally railroaded can get on the news, and then someone else with power may try to do something about it. If you put on your optimist hat (I'm guessing it's kind of dusty and mildewy, by now), consider that this particular case might not have been able to get the attention that it got here, just a few years ago. By being able to call public attention to the problem, something can be done about it. How many wrongfully failed naturalization cases have happened up until now, but not been interesting enough to the public? The NYT wrote an article about corrective measures built into our democratic republic working (for once).
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
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I'm more for immigration Stasi, if we're going to exaggerate that far. I mean, as I already mentioned, Nazism parallels where they aren't warranted is not a good look, even if they did have the coolest uniforms. Using that kind of rhetoric only serves to further isolate you, and makes you look like you don't think with any nuance, and prioritize emotional thinking over rational thinking.

That article describes a drawn out legal process, not kicking in doors on a whim, and beating or killing families and their friends. It's obviously wrong to kick out someone that has done all the right things over a minor clerical error, but immigration or otherwise, crap like that happens all of the time (and just think, most of the world has far worse legal systems!). It may not even be malicious, like so many people being so used to being overworked that they just stamp and move on. People being legally railroaded can get on the news, and then someone else with power may try to do something about it. If you put on your optimist hat (I'm guessing it's kind of dusty and mildewy, by now), consider that this particular case might not have been able to get the attention that it got here, just a few years ago. By being able to call public attention to the problem, something can be done about it. How many wrongfully failed naturalization cases have happened up until now, but not been interesting enough to the public? The NYT wrote an article about corrective measures built into our democratic republic working (for once).

Ah, I see, your concern is with nazis marching people into ovens but not with nazis forming policies and spreading propaganda that allows them to march people into ovens.

Smart.
/s
 
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Cerb

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Ah, I see, your concern is with nazis marching people into ovens but not with nazis forming policies and spreading propaganda that allows them to march people into ovens.
Need the evidence that anything going on is a reasonable parallel to rise of Nazi Germany, to be concerned with so-called Nazis doing it. It's a lot of name-calling, with little substance, and also a means to avoid having any better solutions. Godwin's Law has escaped into real life.

Talk about specifically what's going on, without such extreme hyperbole, in terms that apply to current reality and near-future potential to change it, and there might be some discussion to be had. Or, if you really think this is anything like Nazism, have some sources, the more the better, to make specific parallels with, so that the name-calling is at least a clear, factual, information-based argument. Thus far I haven't seen that, nor anything like McCarthyism.

If the Democrats in the House and Senate will play ball, this could all be over of weeks. I don't like how Trump is creating sacrificial pawns to push the issue, but it doesn't look like he's going to back down until the Democrats in the House and Senate are willing to play ball, and come up with an immigration bill/package to fix the system. That, or the Democrats lose enough seats late this year that it won't be needed (which may happen, but I'd rather we have compromising reps than several years of a Republican supermajority).
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
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Need the evidence that anything going on is a reasonable parallel to rise of Nazi Germany, to be concerned with so-called Nazis doing it. It's a lot of name-calling, with little substance, and also a means to avoid having any better solutions. Godwin's Law has escaped into real life.

Talk about specifically what's going on, without such extreme hyperbole, in terms that apply to current reality and near-future potential to change it, and there might be some discussion to be had. Or, if you really think this is anything like Nazism, have some sources, the more the better, to make specific parallels with, so that the name-calling is at least a clear, factual, information-based argument. Thus far I haven't seen that, nor anything like McCarthyism.

If the Democrats in the House and Senate will play ball, this could all be over of weeks. I don't like how Trump is creating sacrificial pawns to push the issue, but it doesn't look like he's going to back down until the Democrats in the House and Senate are willing to play ball, and come up with an immigration bill/package to fix the system. That, or the Democrats lose enough seats late this year that it won't be needed (which may happen, but I'd rather we have compromising reps than several years of a Republican supermajority).

Sure thing.

A president who disregards political norms (such as ignoring the emoluments clause of the constitution).
A president who attacks the media, relentlessly.
A president who outright lies and uses common propaganda techniques to create an us vs them endowment.
Tearing down or delegitimizing government institutions.
Going after political enemies (lock her up, lock comey up).
Ignoring or tearing down our allies (talking shit about other world leaders who happen to be our allies, talking crap about NATO).
Openly admiring dictators and authoritarian strongmen.
Ignoring outside threats to our democracy and elections.
Nominating SC judges who must pass a litmus test.
Normalizing violence and hate (see Charlottesville).
Essentially using a tv network to push the propaganda of the state.
Going after "citizens that might have fallen through the cracks" with regard to immigration.
Using the military for political purposes (see the entirely useless bombing of the Syrian airport or trumps desire to have a military parade).
Needlessly separating families in the name of security.
Implementing policies in the name of security despite there not being a security threat (see the travel ban).
Indefinite detention with no exercise of legal rights (see Guantanamo and trumps latest zero tolerance immigration policies).
We have a Congress that's abdicated its duty to put checks on the other branches of governments (have you heard a single call from Republican legislators to start investigating Pruitt).
A Congress that uses its power to investigate its political enemies for the expressed purpose of hurting them politically.
Ignoring congressional norms to stack the courts (stealing a SC nomination from Obama).
Rigging elections so that a minority of people elect representatives who control a majority of government.
Rigging elections to disenfranchise particular groups of voters because of their typical party affiliation.
(the last few would fall under the heading of, consolidating/reinforcing their power).
We have a supreme court that ignores precedent to pursue an agenda (see the federalist society and things like the Heller ruling).
A supreme court that has members on it that refuse to recuse themselves when previous justices would have in the past (see Clarence Thomas and his tea partier wife and the hobby lobby ruling).


That's just to name a few off the top of my head, I'm sure others can add more.

Oh and regarding godwins law (how quaint btw).

https://gizmodo.com/godwin-of-godwins-law-by-all-means-compare-these-shi-1797807646

He's speaking of the people trump calls, "very fine people".
 

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
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If the Democrats in the House and Senate will play ball

The Democrats have been willing to play ball all along. They are only really asking for a few concessions, most of which the Republicans actually agree with. They even offered a reasonable amount of money to start Trumps wall. It is the Republicans that can't agree on what they want and can't get their party to vote together on a immigration bill. One starts to wonder if they are actually serious about wanting to solve it or if they just enjoy complaining about it.
 
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Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
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Wow. Almost all of that is serious stretching, at best.

A president who outright lies and uses common propaganda techniques to create an us vs them endowment.
And doing less of it than the previous one. Most of that is being done by the opposition, which he is playing like Johnny plays a fiddle. If they'd stop making anti-Trump their basic policy position, much, if not most, of it, would disappear. It only works because when he says something slightly not equitable, it gets multiplied as it is passed around.

Going after political enemies (lock her up, lock comey up).
Nothing new, just mud-slinging in political races. Except that there was some substance for it, there (though it's not politically worth it to follow through).

Ignoring or tearing down our allies (talking shit about other world leaders who happen to be our allies, talking crap about NATO).
Oh no, we have someone who isn't polite. Woe is us. Being allies doesn't necessitate niceties, but a guarantee of boots on the ground when neede, no nasty trade sanctions, and so on.

Openly admiring dictators and authoritarian strongmen.
You mean like trying to make a path towards having NK and Russia not just be enemies for another generation? I'm still concerned about Putin's Russia, but I'm optimistic for NK. Both leaders want their egos stroked, and Trump is much like them, in that way.

Ignoring outside threats to our democracy and elections.
Since when? It's taken ages for the MSM to wake up to that sort of thing going on, regarding elections, but it's not the President's job, nor something within his power, to fix. Foreign propaganda is not new. All that's new is the MSM realizing that platforms like Facebook and Twitter aren't strictly controlled.

Normalizing violence and hate (see Charlottesville).
Did you see any of what went on there other than the MSM coverage? It was a cluster, for sure, but crapping on everyone would be bad, because no, not everyone there was Neo-Nazi or Antifa.

Essentially using a tv network to push the propaganda of the state.
Then we've been on the path to Nazism since at least 2000. W's admininistration was the first to do it well, IMO, and Obama did it with more than one network at his feet. I don't like it, but it's nothing new for this admin, and would be going on with Clinton, if she got elected, too. OTOH, I get a kick out of the Republicans, in general, treating Fox News like it's their best friend, when it's another ratings-seeking tabloid network, like the rest.

Going after "citizens that might have fallen through the cracks" with regard to immigration.
So get Congress to stop him. Bitch and moan to your reps, including threatening to campaign for any other candidate in the next election cycle. Fearmongering isn't going to fix anything, and if you haven't guessed by now, I would like to actually see it dealt with, rather than just getting another bandaid. My interpretation of what's going on is an attempt to push the issue by way of malicious compliance.

Using the military for political purposes (see the entirely useless bombing of the Syrian airport or trumps desire to have a military parade).
So we've been sliding into Nazism since the 60s, at a minimum. Got it.

Needlessly separating families in the name of security.
The most left court we have decided that it should be done that way, given the laws we have, and it was being done under Obama, with Obama's knowledge, too. It's also not something I can get too upset about, when the issue is border jumpers being detained, either. When they are in fact families, they made the decision to risk that when they crossed (or tried to).

Implementing policies in the name of security despite there not being a security threat (see the travel ban).
They were considered risky already, but I indeed do not get why that ban was so important, or how a blanket ban helps. Just vet people coming and going from risky nations, with more care than normal. Malicious travelers will come in from another country, or go to a nearby one, first. Meanwhile, legitimate ones are more likely not to be able to do that.

Indefinite detention with no exercise of legal rights (see Guantanamo and trumps latest zero tolerance immigration policies).
The former is which is nothing new, either, and should have been abolished ages ago. That's one thing I was really disappointed in Obama about. He so wanted to not rock the boat that he didn't follow through on that fully, and now we have a Neocon-friendly President. Yay.

We have a Congress that's abdicated its duty to put checks on the other branches of governments (have you heard a single call from Republican legislators to start investigating Pruitt).
No more than in the past. It's just that now the people not being investigated are different, so you see it differently.

A Congress that uses its power to investigate its political enemies for the expressed purpose of hurting them politically.
How many of those have their been? Political damage is always part of such investigations, but shady actions provided legit reasons, thus far, TMK.

Ignoring congressional norms to stack the courts (stealing a SC nomination from Obama).
Nothing there was stolen. That kind of partisan pandering and delaying for appointees is the norm, but the timing of the surrounding circumstances was off, for Obama to successfully get another one in, while he had Congressional support. IMO, that's just crying over not having the successful majority they wanted, and RBG not dying soon enough for them.

Rigging elections so that a minority of people elect representatives who control a majority of government.
Citation needed, if you're not talking about our Constitution, which predates the Nazis by 150 years. Every President wins because they campaigned to win the electoral college, this goes back to the beginning, and that's not rigging at all. It is a mechanism to allow a simple majority to not get all the power, and it is one of those checks that works.

Rigging elections to disenfranchise particular groups of voters because of their typical party affiliation.
Do you mean the ID stuff, or something else? There was one, or two, maybe, states that set the deadline way too short, such that only people with existing IDs and ready documentation would be on the rolls (and got sued over it, rightfully so). Most were just fine, including mine. I had to get new copies of documents for my ID, which delayed the process, and they had to look me up in their binder when I voted, because of that and the DMV having a SNAFU moment with their machines. For the states that allowed 6 months or more, they got lumped in there, but with that much time, it's laziness, and laziness is not an excuse to be called disenfranchised, IMO. I haven't heard of anything else being called that.

We have a supreme court that ignores precedent to pursue an agenda (see the federalist society and things like the Heller ruling).
Don't forget the ACA mandate ruling (taxation as compelled private commerce? WTF?). I'm with you 100% on this one.
A supreme court that has members on it that refuse to recuse themselves when previous justices would have in the past (see Clarence Thomas and his tea partier wife and the hobby lobby ruling).
The SCOTUS not having sufficient checks and balances against them was an omission that is practically impossible to fix, and has been an issue for a long time (since 1942 at a minimum, with that abhorrent interstate commerce decision). Definitely a problem, and not one going away any time soon, sadly.

The others I'm either ambivalent about, don't have a strong view on, or am not sure about the truth of info I have heard and read.
 
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Jhhnn

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The Democrats have been willing to play ball all along. They are only really asking for a few concessions, most of which the Republicans actually agree with. They even offered a reasonable amount of money to start Trumps wall. It is the Republicans that can't agree on what they want and can't get their party to vote together on a immigration bill. One starts to wonder if they are actually serious about wanting to solve it or if they just enjoy complaining about it.

It's one of their great perma-issues, guaranteed to rev up the faithful & keep 'em voting for more of that great trickle down feeling.
 
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sportage

Lifer
Feb 1, 2008
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I think I mentioned this type of thing happening in another thread.
That for those who support Trump and his agenda, eventually Trump will find a flaw in them as well.
And Trump will come after them as well....
Maybe it will be their skin color in question.
Are they.... WHITE ENOUGH for Donald Trump?
Or, maybe something about the name?
Is that name an old fashion American name?
And exactly where did that family name originate from 100+ years ago???
And can that name disqualify any family for claiming full pure US citizenship?
Maybe in 2018 the average American doesn't care about such things, but Donald Trump cares.
As Donald Trump sees it, family origination must be and will be questioned.

That day will come when even the most staunch Donald Trump supporter MUST prove themselves in order to be worthy.
Worthy as an American, worthy as an citizen, worth as an Trump supporter.

When Donald Trump runs out of enemies to go after, Donald Trump WILL create a new batch of enemies to go after.
THAT is his nature.
THAT is the nature of the beast.
And I don't know exactly why it is, but I personally will very much enjoy watching those religious right winged Trump evangelist running in fear from the scorn of Donald Trump when that day of Trump judgment finally comes to their doorstep.
White is white, but how white? How white is Donald Trump white?
As far as I can tell, only the ALT-RIGHT qualify as white enough for Donald Trump.
Be assured. Donald has an agenda. An agenda forever ongoing and never satisfied.
Donald Trump's agenda will eventually target YOU!
It doesn't matter who you are, where you live, or what your past.
The question for all Americans and for all Trump supporters will be, can you prove your worthiness to exist within Donald Trump's America, in the eyes of Donald Trump?
 
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ivwshane

Lifer
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Congrats! You've normalized fascism. You've countered my examples with feels and more lies and excuse and only took the time to look at each item individually as opposed to seeing them as a collection of events that will lead to the inevitable.

In the past, people like you would be called sympathizers or enablers.

Wow. Almost all of that is serious stretching, at best.

And doing less of it than the previous one. Most of that is being done by the opposition, which he is playing like Johnny plays a fiddle. If they'd stop making anti-Trump their basic policy position, much, if not most, of it, would disappear. It only works because when he says something slightly not equitable, it gets multiplied as it is passed around.

Nothing new, just mud-slinging in political races. Except that there was some substance for it, there (though it's not politically worth it to follow through).

Oh no, we have someone who isn't polite. Woe is us. Being allies doesn't necessitate niceties, but a guarantee of boots on the ground when neede, no nasty trade sanctions, and so on.

You mean like trying to make a path towards having NK and Russia not just be enemies for another generation? I'm still concerned about Putin's Russia, but I'm optimistic for NK. Both leaders want their egos stroked, and Trump is much like them, in that way.

Since when? It's taken ages for the MSM to wake up to that sort of thing going on, regarding elections, but it's not the President's job, nor something within his power, to fix. Foreign propaganda is not new. All that's new is the MSM realizing that platforms like Facebook and Twitter aren't strictly controlled.

Did you see any of what went on there other than the MSM coverage? It was a cluster, for sure, but crapping on everyone would be bad, because no, not everyone there was Neo-Nazi or Antifa.

Then we've been on the path to Nazism since at least 2000. W's admininistration was the first to do it well, IMO, and Obama did it with more than one network at his feet. I don't like it, but it's nothing new for this admin, and would be going on with Clinton, if she got elected, too. OTOH, I get a kick out of the Republicans, in general, treating Fox News like it's their best friend, when it's another ratings-seeking tabloid network, like the rest.

So get Congress to stop him. Bitch and moan to your reps, including threatening to campaign for any other candidate in the next election cycle. Fearmongering isn't going to fix anything, and if you haven't guessed by now, I would like to actually see it dealt with, rather than just getting another bandaid. My interpretation of what's going on is an attempt to push the issue by way of malicious compliance.

So we've been sliding into Nazism since the 60s, at a minimum. Got it.

The most left court we have decided that it should be done that way, given the laws we have, and it was being done under Obama, with Obama's knowledge, too. It's also not something I can get too upset about, when the issue is border jumpers being detained, either. When they are in fact families, they made the decision to risk that when they crossed (or tried to).

They were considered risky already, but I indeed do not get why that ban was so important, or how a blanket ban helps. Just vet people coming and going from risky nations, with more care than normal. Malicious travelers will come in from another country, or go to a nearby one, first. Meanwhile, legitimate ones are more likely not to be able to do that.

The former is which is nothing new, either, and should have been abolished ages ago. That's one thing I was really disappointed in Obama about. He so wanted to not rock the boat that he didn't follow through on that fully, and now we have a Neocon-friendly President. Yay.

No more than in the past. It's just that now the people not being investigated are different, so you see it differently.

How many of those have their been? Political damage is always part of such investigations, but shady actions provided legit reasons, thus far, TMK.

Nothing there was stolen. That kind of partisan pandering and delaying for appointees is the norm, but the timing of the surrounding circumstances was off, for Obama to successfully get another one in, while he had Congressional support. IMO, that's just crying over not having the successful majority they wanted, and RBG not dying soon enough for them.

Citation needed, if you're not talking about our Constitution, which predates the Nazis by 150 years. Every President wins because they campaigned to win the electoral college, this goes back to the beginning, and that's not rigging at all. It is a mechanism to allow a simple majority to not get all the power, and it is one of those checks that works.

Do you mean the ID stuff, or something else? There was one, or two, maybe, states that set the deadline way too short, such that only people with existing IDs and ready documentation would be on the rolls (and got sued over it, rightfully so). Most were just fine, including mine. I had to get new copies of documents for my ID, which delayed the process, and they had to look me up in their binder when I voted, because of that and the DMV having a SNAFU moment with their machines. For the states that allowed 6 months or more, they got lumped in there, but with that much time, it's laziness, and laziness is not an excuse to be called disenfranchised, IMO. I haven't heard of anything else being called that.

Don't forget the ACA mandate ruling (taxation as compelled private commerce? WTF?). I'm with you 100% on this one.
The SCOTUS not having sufficient checks and balances against them was an omission that is practically impossible to fix, and has been an issue for a long time (since 1942 at a minimum, with that abhorrent interstate commerce decision). Definitely a problem, and not one going away any time soon, sadly.

The others I'm either ambivalent about, don't have a strong view on, or am not sure about the truth of info I have heard and read.
 
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SP33Demon

Lifer
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https://www.npr.org/2018/07/04/6259...ake-citizenship-from-those-who-lied-to-get-it

So Trump's admin is now looking at creating a "denaturalization task force". The goal is to hunt for people who might have lied or cheated in the application process and get rid of them. They believe they might be able to find thousands to get rid of.

Now, this is not new. There has always been a practice of addressing allegations of cheating the process for naturalization. They are reviewed on a case by case basis as they come up. What's different here is the proactive approach. That hasn't been done since the McCarthy days going after the Red Scare. This is a process that was typically used to ferret out Nazi's and other war criminals previously.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics...p-from-those-suspected-of-irregularities.html

Now the topic of discussion and to put it into perspective. In the last 30 years only 300 people have been "denaturalized". The admin says it won't look to remove people for technicalities but they have lied about their enforcement plans in the past. Do you trust this admin given all it has done so far, the level of extreme incompetence, to do this right and, more importantly, fairly?
If people are cheating the system and they punish you, why is this now "McCarthyism"? Is the IRS punishing you for 2015's tax returns that you lied on now "McCarthyism"? If you break the law, you pay the penalty. Don't try to cheat the system and the system won't come after you.
 
Feb 16, 2005
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If people are cheating the system and they punish you, why is this now "McCarthyism"? Is the IRS punishing you for 2015's tax returns that you lied on now "McCarthyism"? If you break the law, you pay the penalty. Don't try to cheat the system and the system won't come after you.
the trump supporter says without the faintest whiff of irony
 
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