Trump breaks up with Kim, calls off summit after VP is mildly insulted. Might make up later. Update

[zinfamous]

Just a lover's spat.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2018/05/26/asia/kim-jong-un-moon-jae-in-korea-intl/index.html

Prom date unchanged. Lordy.

Damn, so what about the value of those summit coins, now? ....one wonders if this letter last week was all just a ploy from Trump to sell those poorly-selling coins.

Winning!

 

[pcgeek11]

So, further proof that he's a moron. Demographically, you do realize that the poorly educated support republicans at a significantly greater rate than they do republicans, right? And Trump at a disturbingly high rate within that line.


I asked for evidence, you again provided a feels argument that explicitly rejects the exact type of evidence used to make such arguments, regardless of how thin it is, it's what we have.

Go back to school, gramps.

Get off my fuckin lawn Whipper Snapper.

 

[JSt0rm]

Get off my fuckin lawn Whipper Snapper.

what feels good in your gut is all that matters.

 

[feralkid]

what feels good in your gut is all that matters.

That, and 40 rods to the hogshead.

 

[Ajay]

Just a lover's spat.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2018/05/26/asia/kim-jong-un-moon-jae-in-korea-intl/index.html

Prom date unchanged. Lordy.

Well at least it amps down the pressure on the Trump admin a bit - the need to get a deal was getting over hyped (like the Iran deal, which while I supported it, could have been better). Maybe the current admin will get something out of this without giving up the store, like an armistice and some transparency/controls on NK's nuclear program.

 

[ivwshane]

Well at least it amps down the pressure on the Trump admin a bit - the need to get a deal was getting over hyped (like the Iran deal, which while I supported it, could have been better). Maybe the current admin will get something out of this without giving up the store, like an armistice and some transparency/controls on NK's nuclear program.

I'm curious, in what ways do you think the Iran deal could have been better?

 

[Jhhnn]

I'm curious, in what ways do you think the Iran deal could have been better?

"Could" was used in a purely speculative manner. We made the best deal we could get & so did Iran.

It was a win-win until Trump. The new demands from Trump are just an offer that Iran should eat shit & die.

 

[Ajay]

I'm curious, in what ways do you think the Iran deal could have been better?

Honestly, I don’t recall my specific objections at the time the deal was being negotiated. I support it as it is now as the best we deal we could get in an acceptable time frame. Just hoping that the Trump White House can find its way to a better peace on the Korean Peninsula despite the limitations of this president.

Edit: One of my issues was that our stance looked overly eager, just as was the case for Trump before the current ‘reset’. It’s a balancing act.

 

[ivwshane]

Honestly, I don’t recall my specific objections at the time the deal was being negotiated. I support it as it is now as the best we deal we could get in an acceptable time frame. Just hoping that the Trump White House can find its way to a better peace on the Korean Peninsula despite the limitations of this president.

Edit: One of my issues was that our stance looked overly eager, just as was the case for Trump before the current ‘reset’. It’s a balancing act.

So nothing.

 

[Ajay]

So nothing.

Nah, I also thought we should have done something about LR missile development but it didn't get done (not that it was a priority compared to nuclear development). It was a while ago and my memory just isn't as good as it used to be. I am not nor was I mad about what happened. I just recall I had certain expectations at the time that weren't met. Sorry to be so boring

 

[K1052]

Ok CIA thinks what we all know to be true:

A new U.S. intelligence assessment has concluded that North Korea does not intend to give up its nuclear weapons any time soon, three U.S. officials told NBC News — a finding that conflicts with recent statements by President Donald Trump that Pyongyang intends to do so in the future.

President Trump is continuing to pursue a nuclear summit with North Korean leader Kim Jong Un even though the CIA analysis, which is consistent with other expert opinion, casts doubt on the viability of Trump's stated goal for the negotiations, the elimination of North Korea's nuclear weapons stockpile.

"Everybody knows they are not going to denuclearize," said one intelligence official who read the report, which was circulated earlier this month, days before Trump cancelled the originally scheduled summit.

With a side helping of WTF:

In an odd twist, a list of potential concessions by North Korea in the CIA analysis included the possibility that Kim Jong Un may consider offering to open a Western hamburger franchise in Pyongyang as a show of goodwill, according to three national security officials.

It suggests Kim is interested in a peaceful gesture to an American president whose love of fast-food burgers is well known — and who, during the 2016 campaign, had said he wanted to talk nukes over a burger with the North Korean leader.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/north-...h-korea-won-t-denuclearize-might-open-n878201

 

[pcgeek11]

Everybody with more than two brain cells knows that the odds are small he will just cave in and Denuc NK.

Are you saying that we shouldn't bother trying?

 

[K1052]

Everybody with more than two brain cells knows that the odds are small he will just cave in and Denuc NK.

Are you saying that we shouldn't bother trying?

We've come a long way from requiring unilateral disarmament for talks, to talking about conditional disarmament, and now on to meh whatevs our President just needs something that looks like a foreign policy win.

We'll end up with something that could have been easily attainable without Trump ratcheting up the bluster and almost starting a war that would kill hundreds of thousands. Either way the US stands to lose considerable regional power in Asia with how this has gone down. The SKs want us out soon and the Japanese are increasingly pissed.

 

[fskimospy]

Everybody with more than two brain cells knows that the odds are small he will just cave in and Denuc NK.

Are you saying that we shouldn't bother trying?

We should definitely bother trying but we should go into any meeting with a clear understanding of the situation and a clear understanding of what we hope to achieve.

Do you honestly think Trump has either of those?

 

[fskimospy]

We've come a long way from requiring unilateral disarmament for talks, to talking about conditional disarmament, and now on to meh whatevs our President just needs something that looks like a foreign policy win.

We'll end up with something that could have been easily attainable without Trump ratcheting up the bluster and almost starting a war that would kill hundreds of thousands. Either way the US stands to lose considerable regional power in Asia with how this has gone down. The SKs want us out soon and the Japanese are increasingly pissed.

Yep. If this summit actually happens I imagine some sort of cursory agreement will come out of it that does little or nothing to substantively change the situation in Korea. (Or will actively cave to NK’s demands) Trump will then declare it the greatest act of diplomacy in history.

North Korea has nukes now and there’s no chance of them giving them up. That’s something the US has to accept but that’s a valuable chip to trade with them and I hope someone in the White House is aware of that. Sadly I have modest confidence of that at best.

 

[Thump553]

Everybody with more than two brain cells knows that the odds are small he will just cave in and Denuc NK.

Are you saying that we shouldn't bother trying?

NK's modus operandi for the past several decades has been to agree to something, sanctions get relaxed and payoffs in the form of aid is sent to NK then NK breaks the deal on some bogus pretense and ramps up their nuclear and missile efforts four-fold. Given The Donald's very limited attention span (matched by that of his supporters) I am extremely concerned Trump will agree to something, anything just to declare victory and not do anything to insure we won't be worse off when NK breaches again.

Having an Inspector Clouseau type handle such serious and delicate diplomatic negotiations does not point to any likely positive outcome for the USA.

 

[pcgeek11]

We should definitely bother trying but we should go into any meeting with a clear understanding of the situation and a clear understanding of what we hope to achieve.

Do you honestly think Trump has either of those?

Those things seem to be getting attention as we speak.

 

[pcgeek11]

We've come a long way from requiring unilateral disarmament for talks, to talking about conditional disarmament, and now on to meh whatevs our President just needs something that looks like a foreign policy win.

We'll end up with something that could have been easily attainable without Trump ratcheting up the bluster and almost starting a war that would kill hundreds of thousands. Either way the US stands to lose considerable regional power in Asia with how this has gone down. The SKs want us out soon and the Japanese are increasingly pissed.

Seems you have quite a bit of speculation going on.

 

[pcgeek11]

NK's modus operandi for the past several decades has been to agree to something, sanctions get relaxed and payoffs in the form of aid is sent to NK then NK breaks the deal on some bogus pretense and ramps up their nuclear and missile efforts four-fold. Given The Donald's very limited attention span (matched by that of his supporters) I am extremely concerned Trump will agree to something, anything just to declare victory and not do anything to insure we won't be worse off when NK breaches again.

Having an Inspector Clouseau type handle such serious and delicate diplomatic negotiations does not point to any likely positive outcome for the USA.

Oh God we are all going to die in a fireball...

Maybe we should all go buy a string of pearls and some aluminum foil hats.

 

[fskimospy]

Those things seem to be getting attention as we speak.

Really. First, I see no evidence that Trump has any understanding of the situation. Second, what do we hope to achieve then?

We are supposed to know all of these things BEFORE agreeing to any meeting, by the way, haha. The total incompetence here is just unbelievable. It’s like he’s playing model UN.

 

[fskimospy]

Oh God we are all going to die in a fireball...

Maybe we should all go buy a string of pearls and some aluminum foil hats.

No, we are just going to get played by North Korea just as we’ve already been getting played.

As others mentioned we’ve already caved on having the meeting to begin with, caved on nuclear disarmament, caved on military exercises with the south, and alienated the south with our negotiating tactics. What has North Korea given up? A test facility that didn’t work anymore anyway and some hostages. (Obama was able to get hostages returned by them without conceding anything, btw.)

That’s why you need to know what you want to achieve and how you want to achieve it before going in. Instead, Trump is so desperate for a win he’s getting rolled yet again.

 

[K1052]

Seems you have quite a bit of speculation going on.

Or I've bothered to think more than one step ahead.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Update 6/1. Kim and Trump renew their vows and will start counselling sessions later thus month, unless they don't.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018...eting-with-kim-in-singapore-is-back-on-617113

 

[pcgeek11]

Really. First, I see no evidence that Trump has any understanding of the situation. Second, what do we hope to achieve then?

We are supposed to know all of these things BEFORE agreeing to any meeting, by the way, haha. The total incompetence here is just unbelievable. It’s like he’s playing model UN.

No, we are just going to get played by North Korea just as we’ve already been getting played.

As others mentioned we’ve already caved on having the meeting to begin with, caved on nuclear disarmament, caved on military exercises with the south, and alienated the south with our negotiating tactics. What has North Korea given up? A test facility that didn’t work anymore anyway and some hostages. (Obama was able to get hostages returned by them without conceding anything, btw.)

That’s why you need to know what you want to achieve and how you want to achieve it before going in. Instead, Trump is so desperate for a win he’s getting rolled yet again.

Well I guess you would be all for repeating the same thing over and over again and getting the same thing we have been getting for decades.

Or I've bothered to think more than one step ahead.

Right. I forgot that you are smarter than anyone else. /s

I think you meant to say is you bothered to speculate more than one step ahead.

 

[cytg111]

Right. I forgot that you are smarter than anyone else. /s

I think you meant to say is you bothered to speculate more than one step ahead.

What the hell is wrong with you? Granted english is not my first language, but what the hell are you reading between the lines that gets you *that*? Are you *that* easily belittled? Check your self man.