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Trump ‘Playing Politics’ With Lives As FEMA Grabs Ventilators

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Trell

Member
Oct 28, 2003
153
18
81
Is there a number listed anywhere for the number of people in the US who are presently on a ventilator? Google fails me.
I'm trying to figure out why there is a shortage as it appears that 160k are available. Are 160k people using those machines right now? My search suggests that isn't the case, but I can't find actual numbers. If the demand is due to expected need, what assumptions are being used?

Before we all go crazy and start shouting TRUMP!! I'm not looking to excuse him, I'm genuinely wondering why we're having such a massive supply shortage given the number available.
The big issue with this is there are different types of ventilators that make up that total and not all are the best type for patients with issues. Another issue is that you can't just look at the total venrilators in the country and the total people who need them at this time because you cannot assume they are all available where they are needed. For example if New York State has 10k and NYC needs 8k that doesnt mean there are enough in NYC because 5k might be there and the rest spread throughout the state...

Some good information on the types of ventilators and other breakdowns can be found here: https://sccm.org/Blog/March-2020/United-States-Resource-Availability-for-COVID-19
 
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interchange

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
7,287
2,000
136
Is there a number listed anywhere for the number of people in the US who are presently on a ventilator? Google fails me.
I'm trying to figure out why there is a shortage as it appears that 160k are available. Are 160k people using those machines right now? My search suggests that isn't the case, but I can't find actual numbers. If the demand is due to expected need, what assumptions are being used?

Before we all go crazy and start shouting TRUMP!! I'm not looking to excuse him, I'm genuinely wondering why we're having such a massive supply shortage given the number available.
It would be appropriate for the government to help step in and centralize the response and resource distribution. Unfortunately, there is a lot of evidence from states and hospitals that not only is this not happening, but that they being put in position to compete with each other financially.

Because of this situation, the answer to your question is unknown. A much larger number of patients with COVID-19 are requiring ventilator care and a different kind of ventilator treatment than other patients. Additionally, patients with COVID-19 are spending weeks in the hospital under ventilator care. Being an infectious disease, a lot of the need is related to anticipated growing need as the illness spreads, which can be difficult to predict. Large hospitals in major metro areas are easier on that front, using the majority of resources. However, if in turn vents aren't available to smaller areas like Albany GA, a local outbreak can ravage the system and kill lots quickly. How much extra capacity should we let a vulnerable area have knowing a larger area has more predictability and flexibility? What really matters is resource availability at peak. Keep in mind that when cases are at their peak, the hospital will still be flooded with patients, many still on vents, from the prior weeks where the illness was almost at its peak already.

Ventilators are not instantaneously deployable, and there is enough uncertainty in need to make this a difficult problem. It is rendered impossible by the lack of a centrally coordinated response quantifying need and distributing appropriately. Unfortunately, this lack of transparent centralized coordinated response also obfuscates an accurate awareness of the enormity of our failures.

But this is a common theme with all things Trump. Muddy the waters. Make it so that one piece of data which does not fit the whole can be used to argue a logically untenable position. Make it so that someone cannot use a full data set to paint a clear and complete picture of just how untenable that position is. Make it so that someone who wants to believe in the untenable position can be comfortable seeing it as a difference of opinion. Harp on all the ways where the person with an opposing position uses ad hominem and other logical errors. Use that to conclude they are arguing in bad faith. Justify anyone pointing to your use of ad hominem, etc. as appropriate because they do the same.

All of this is done to prevent the one thing everyone is sorely lacking: reflecting on their own position independent of that of others -- using engagement with others as a means of finding the potential faults in your own position.
 

Meghan54

Diamond Member
Oct 18, 2009
9,484
2,293
136
Is there a number listed anywhere for the number of people in the US who are presently on a ventilator? Google fails me.
I'm trying to figure out why there is a shortage as it appears that 160k are available. Are 160k people using those machines right now? My search suggests that isn't the case, but I can't find actual numbers. If the demand is due to expected need, what assumptions are being used?

Before we all go crazy and start shouting TRUMP!! I'm not looking to excuse him, I'm genuinely wondering why we're having such a massive supply shortage given the number available.
Honestly, your continued display of what now seems a genuine lack of critical thinking skills and any innate curiosity into any subject in which you choose to pontificate is simply staggering. You honestly think the U.S. has 160k ventilators just sitting about, unused and are simply being misallocated? Because that's essentially what you've just stated in your question.

The answer is no....while there may be 160K vents "available" in the U.S., did it ever occur to you that some (probably in the tens of thousands) are used for long-term vent dependent patients 24/7?

Guess not.

Did you know thousands of hospital OR anesthesia machines are counted in that 160K? They aren't very useful for the general patient population, although some hospitals have gone so far as to convert some for floor/ICU use.....and that's desperation.

How about vents dedicated for neonatal use? More than a couple exist and I'm pretty sure they're also quite useless for general patient use.

Let's not forget a hospital really doesn't want to use every last single ventilator they may have...there has to be some sort of backup in case one in use dies.

Let's also remember some are invariably non-functional. Some are in cleaning and maintenance.

So......no, in reality, there aren't 160K ventilators laying around, unused, just waiting for nothing but COVID patients. Honest to God.....just think a little...I know it's asking a lot.
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
15,250
3,476
136
There are entire Skilled Nursing Facilites (SNF) that are nothing but vent patients. I know of a couple here in Tacoma alone.
:thumbsup:
So you are out here in Washington? I live out in the boonies west of Bremerton.
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
15,250
3,476
136
Boonies south of Tacoma :)
I like those boonies out by the east shores of Hood Canal. Very boonerific!
Normally, the shrimp days, yes days, that's the season, has either happened by now or is about to. Not being out socially, I haven't talked to any of my buddies that bother to go out.
 

skyking

Lifer
Nov 21, 2001
19,153
843
136
I remember the yuuge shrimp you could get out there. Days of flying a float plane out there and running it up on the beach a hundred yards from a big party, and then getting "invited" to join them, LOL.
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
16,655
2,168
126
Honestly, your continued display of what now seems a genuine lack of critical thinking skills and any innate curiosity into any subject in which you choose to pontificate is simply staggering. You honestly think the U.S. has 160k ventilators just sitting about, unused and are simply being misallocated? Because that's essentially what you've just stated in your question.

The answer is no....while there may be 160K vents "available" in the U.S., did it ever occur to you that some (probably in the tens of thousands) are used for long-term vent dependent patients 24/7?

Guess not.

Did you know thousands of hospital OR anesthesia machines are counted in that 160K? They aren't very useful for the general patient population, although some hospitals have gone so far as to convert some for floor/ICU use.....and that's desperation.

How about vents dedicated for neonatal use? More than a couple exist and I'm pretty sure they're also quite useless for general patient use.

Let's not forget a hospital really doesn't want to use every last single ventilator they may have...there has to be some sort of backup in case one in use dies.

Let's also remember some are invariably non-functional. Some are in cleaning and maintenance.

So......no, in reality, there aren't 160K ventilators laying around, unused, just waiting for nothing but COVID patients. Honest to God.....just think a little...I know it's asking a lot.
There are indeed 160k of ventilators in the US that can be used for covid19 treatment. At least according to the CDC website. I was wondering how many were actually in use, and apparently stepped on your toes.
For all of your long winded response, your answer is "I don't know", with a fair dash of hostility tossed into the mix. Why does the question anger you? It's simple information, it should be readily available yet doesn't appear to be, maybe someone should count them?
 
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cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
14,358
4,627
136
There are indeed 160k of ventilators in the US that can be used for covid19 treatment. At least according to the CDC website. I was wondering how many were actually in use, and apparently stepped on your toes.
For all of your long winded response, your answer is "I don't know", with a fair dash of hostility tossed into the mix. Why does the question anger you? It's simple information, it should be readily available yet doesn't appear to be, maybe someone should count them?
Trump pushing the blame on the states for not being ready.
States that have available ventilators are not gonna give them up now, are they, if they think *maybe* they gonna need them in 6 weeks and knows its their heads on the chopping block.
Next breath Trumps wants to coordinate opening of the economy.
You see how its one big policy salad that had a stroke and fell down stairs? No way in hell is that gonna work in any dimension known to man.
In his effort to push away blame from himself, he lost control of the "total availability" of ventilators.
A toad playing 2D chess could have figured this out. Not Trump.
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
61,131
13,071
136
Is there a number listed anywhere for the number of people in the US who are presently on a ventilator? Google fails me.
I'm trying to figure out why there is a shortage as it appears that 160k are available. Are 160k people using those machines right now? My search suggests that isn't the case, but I can't find actual numbers. If the demand is due to expected need, what assumptions are being used?

Before we all go crazy and start shouting TRUMP!! I'm not looking to excuse him, I'm genuinely wondering why we're having such a massive supply shortage given the number available.
How would you suggest they be shifted around other than under federal authority? Oh, wait... The feds are having the states handle it, right?
 

TheVrolok

Lifer
Dec 11, 2000
23,268
2,535
136
Honestly, your continued display of what now seems a genuine lack of critical thinking skills and any innate curiosity into any subject in which you choose to pontificate is simply staggering. You honestly think the U.S. has 160k ventilators just sitting about, unused and are simply being misallocated? Because that's essentially what you've just stated in your question.

The answer is no....while there may be 160K vents "available" in the U.S., did it ever occur to you that some (probably in the tens of thousands) are used for long-term vent dependent patients 24/7?

Guess not.

Did you know thousands of hospital OR anesthesia machines are counted in that 160K? They aren't very useful for the general patient population, although some hospitals have gone so far as to convert some for floor/ICU use.....and that's desperation.

How about vents dedicated for neonatal use? More than a couple exist and I'm pretty sure they're also quite useless for general patient use.

Let's not forget a hospital really doesn't want to use every last single ventilator they may have...there has to be some sort of backup in case one in use dies.

Let's also remember some are invariably non-functional. Some are in cleaning and maintenance.

So......no, in reality, there aren't 160K ventilators laying around, unused, just waiting for nothing but COVID patients. Honest to God.....just think a little...I know it's asking a lot.
Greenman admits on a routine basis that he doesn't actually do any research himself whatsoever. He's not intellectually honest or curious. He's not worth your time time.
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
30,936
9,718
146
There are indeed 160k of ventilators in the US that can be used for covid19 treatment. At least according to the CDC website. I was wondering how many were actually in use, and apparently stepped on your toes.
For all of your long winded response, your answer is "I don't know", with a fair dash of hostility tossed into the mix. Why does the question anger you? It's simple information, it should be readily available yet doesn't appear to be, maybe someone should count them?
Maybe someone should count them! Lol....
 
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skyking

Lifer
Nov 21, 2001
19,153
843
136
"yes sir MR. President, we will certainly look into it" < stifled laughter, giggling>
"yes sir, right away!" <click>
"oh that poor sensitive man" giggle snort.
 
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