• We’re currently investigating an issue related to the forum theme and styling that is impacting page layout and visual formatting. The problem has been identified, and we are actively working on a resolution. There is no impact to user data or functionality, this is strictly a front-end display issue. We’ll post an update once the fix has been deployed. Thanks for your patience while we get this sorted.

True 5.1 speakers????

R

rogue1979

Diamond Member
I have an older set of Logitech X620's that I picked up on sale at Sams about 5 years ago.

I have used them with a Maya Gold, Audigy 2 and Envy 24 sound card. If the sound card software allows it, I can set the front to rear balance perfectly to suit my fancy. They are 6.1 surround speakers, but I set them to 5.1 and the sound balance is exceptional. They have three speaker jacks: front, rear and center. If I unplug any of the jacks from the sound card, the sound will cease from the unplugged channel, but keep playing on the ones still plugged in, just like it should.

I bought my daughter some Logitech X540's and the speaker quality and actual sound is better than my older X620's of course. But you can unplug two of the three speaker jacks from the sound card and as long as the green is plugged in, you get sound from all speakers.

The problem is adjusting the balance. No matter what sound card or software version we use, you can't really adjust the front to rear balance correctly. The older X620's actually end up sounding better with Mp3's and DVD's because you can get the balance and stereo separation adjusted to perfection.

Looking at comparable Creative speakers at newegg, some of the reviews point out a similar problem with front to rear channel balance.

Are these newer speakers all wired to support emulated surround sound out of a single jack at the expense of real 5.1 sound? We can't be the only people that noticed this????

Are there any speakers out there we can purchase that are wired for each of the three jacks to actually output the sound separately from the sound card?
 
Yeah, I tried that. As soon as your run it off there is no sound from the rear channel regardless of how you set the front/rear balance.
 
Upon further investigation, this is what I found out.

It's not the speakers!

It's the sound cards. Both the Encore Via Envy24 and the Audigy2 are screwing the speakers up. I tried again with a generic Envy24 (slightly different chipset) and an old Audiotrac Maya Gold. When turning off the matrix button as suggested, the balance worked perfectly, sounded awesome.

But trying this with the Encore and Audigy2 you end up with no sound on the rear channel if you turn off the matrix control.

Problem solved, I just need to get another sound card that works correctly.
 
Originally posted by: rogue1979
Upon further investigation, this is what I found out.

It's not the speakers!

It's the sound cards. Both the Encore Via Envy24 and the Audigy2 are screwing the speakers up. I tried again with a generic Envy24 (slightly different chipset) and an old Audiotrac Maya Gold. When turning off the matrix button as suggested, the balance worked perfectly, sounded awesome.

But trying this with the Encore and Audigy2 you end up with no sound on the rear channel if you turn off the matrix control.

Problem solved, I just need to get another sound card that works correctly.
Click to expand...

Are you playing music? If so why would you expect rear channels?
 
Originally posted by: PurdueRy

Are you playing music? If so why would you expect rear channels?
Click to expand...

Yes, I'm playing MP3's and they do work in 5.1 and sound fantastic.

The generic Envy24 that works is a Dynex DX-SC51. I looked them up on E-bay and found tons of them starting at $7.99 shipped. I bought three. If anyone wants a great sounding audio card for music playback or movies, it's a heck of a deal. No need to spend more money on an X-Fi. I had one of those and it did music playback about the same as an Audigy 2, I wasn't impressed. I don't know if it has the channel/balance limitations that the Audigy 2 has. I have no clue about other functions on the Audigy 2 or X-Fi, just talking about analog sound through decent sounding speakers.

With the balance and channels set up correctly, the Logitech X540's blow my X620's away big time, especially at higher volume levels. Already bought another set of X540's and can hardly wait for them to arrive😀

 
Originally posted by: rogue1979
Originally posted by: PurdueRy

Are you playing music? If so why would you expect rear channels?
Click to expand...

Yes, I'm playing MP3's and they do work in 5.1 and sound fantastic.

The generic Envy24 that works is a Dynex DX-SC51. I looked them up on E-bay and found tons of them starting at $7.99 shipped. I bought three. If anyone wants a great sounding audio card for music playback or movies, it's a heck of a deal. No need to spend more money on an X-Fi. I had one of those and it did music playback about the same as an Audigy 2, I wasn't impressed. I don't know if it has the channel/balance limitations that the Audigy 2 has. I have no clue about other functions on the Audigy 2 or X-Fi, just talking about analog sound through decent sounding speakers.

With the balance and channels set up correctly, the Logitech X540's blow my X620's away big time, especially at higher volume levels. Already bought another set of X540's and can hardly wait for them to arrive😀
Click to expand...

Music is stereo. You have to enable other modes on any sound card to get it to play differently. If one card is doing this and one isn't you just haven't looked into it far enough. Creative has a 5CH stereo or "Party mode" that allows you to play stereo sound through 5.1 speakers. This is different from Pro Logic II which only expands the sound area instead of truely duplicating the channels in the rear.

You are arriving at conclusions that simply aren't true. Nothing is wrong with what the sound card is doing...you just need to look into it further.

If you haven't already, with create you have to install the consoles that let you utilize all the features of the Creative cards. These aren't typically available online and will need to be installed from your CD.
 
Originally posted by: PurdueRy

Music is stereo. You have to enable other modes on any sound card to get it to play differently. If one card is doing this and one isn't you just haven't looked into it far enough. Creative has a 5CH stereo or "Party mode" that allows you to play stereo sound through 5.1 speakers. This is different from Pro Logic II which only expands the sound area instead of truely duplicating the channels in the rear.

You are arriving at conclusions that simply aren't true. Nothing is wrong with what the sound card is doing...you just need to look into it further.

If you haven't already, with create you have to install the consoles that let you utilize all the features of the Creative cards. These aren't typically available online and will need to be installed from your CD.
Click to expand...

If what you say is true, then perhaps to get the Creative Audigy 2 playing MP3's in 5.1 surround I would have to use the drivers on the installation CD and not use any updated drivers online? Also since the Dynex Envy24 and the Encore Envy24 use the same driver, why is the 5.1 ability not enabled in both and there are no options for this that I can see?

Also in Linux the Dynex Envy24 plays 5.1 great, but the Audigy 2 still doesn't, so enabling a function that should be there by default doesn't look like a likely option.

It looks like a very poor design in software to me. I would rather spend $7.99 to have a better sounding analog audio card, then be limited to a CD for software that should be working without enduring a big hassle to configure.

You have to enable other modes on any sound card to get it to play differently

This simply isn't true. Like I said, the Dynex Envy24 and the Audiotrac Maya Gold both play MP3 music in 5.1 surround by default with several different driver versions without having to enable any obscure "settings". If you wanted to play either of these card in plain stereo you would simply change it to 2.1. No hassles or need to load extra software that isn't obvious or even included with updated drivers from the actual manufacturer.

I can't speak for everyone else, but it would appear that some people are either using the matrix button or being satisfied listening to music on their 5.1 speakers in stereo only. I guess it depends on the sound card itself.

Maybe someone else can mention how they "installed consoles" on the Audigy 2 to allow true front to rear balance?

 
Here's the deal: 5.1 matrix mode (or "party" mode, or 5.1 stereo mode or whatever the particular manufacturer calls their play sound through all speakers setting) is not (and should not be, in my opinion) the default configuration of any sound card. Why? because 2 channel sound sources are meant to be played back in 2 channel form. Music, for the most part, sounds worse out of 5.1 speakers than 2.1 speakers. It causes quicker listening fatigue as well as alters the music from its originally intended form. While you may have "set the balance" so that the negative effects are lessened, you'd probably still be better off listening to music in stereo in most situations.

So, I would say your $7.99 card is not as good, especially if there is no way to turn off 5.1 stereo
 
Originally posted by: unfalliblekrutch
Here's the deal: 5.1 matrix mode (or "party" mode, or 5.1 stereo mode or whatever the particular manufacturer calls their play sound through all speakers setting) is not (and should not be, in my opinion) the default configuration of any sound card. Why? because 2 channel sound sources are meant to be played back in 2 channel form. Music, for the most part, sounds worse out of 5.1 speakers than 2.1 speakers. It causes quicker listening fatigue as well as alters the music from its originally intended form. While you may have "set the balance" so that the negative effects are lessened, you'd probably still be better off listening to music in stereo in most situations.

So, I would say your $7.99 card is not as good, especially if there is no way to turn off 5.1 stereo
Click to expand...

That's a very good explanation and it sounds reasonable.

But remember, the $7.99 card allows you to simply change it to stereo by using the Windows volume/speaker configuration or in the Via audio controls, no extra software or hassles needed. You have a choice that is easy to make, so it should work great for everybody.

Listening to MP3's in matrix or party mode does sound worse, but listening in true 5.1 sounds better than regular stereo to me. But that's a personal opinion....

 
Well the old adage you get what you pay for continues to ring true. My xonar d2x sends my music via optical output to my speakers in dolby digital. Each speaker plays a unique channel and my music sounds fantastic, better than on any other pc sound arrangement I've ever used.
 
Originally posted by: rogue1979
Originally posted by: unfalliblekrutch
Here's the deal: 5.1 matrix mode (or "party" mode, or 5.1 stereo mode or whatever the particular manufacturer calls their play sound through all speakers setting) is not (and should not be, in my opinion) the default configuration of any sound card. Why? because 2 channel sound sources are meant to be played back in 2 channel form. Music, for the most part, sounds worse out of 5.1 speakers than 2.1 speakers. It causes quicker listening fatigue as well as alters the music from its originally intended form. While you may have "set the balance" so that the negative effects are lessened, you'd probably still be better off listening to music in stereo in most situations.

So, I would say your $7.99 card is not as good, especially if there is no way to turn off 5.1 stereo
Click to expand...

That's a very good explanation and it sounds reasonable.

But remember, the $7.99 card allows you to simply change it to stereo by using the Windows volume/speaker configuration or in the Via audio controls, no extra software or hassles needed. You have a choice that is easy to make, so it should work great for everybody.

Listening to MP3's in matrix or party mode does sound worse, but listening in true 5.1 sounds better than regular stereo to me. But that's a personal opinion....
Click to expand...

It's not true 5.1 😉
 
Originally posted by: rogue1979
Originally posted by: unfalliblekrutch
Here's the deal: 5.1 matrix mode (or "party" mode, or 5.1 stereo mode or whatever the particular manufacturer calls their play sound through all speakers setting) is not (and should not be, in my opinion) the default configuration of any sound card. Why? because 2 channel sound sources are meant to be played back in 2 channel form. Music, for the most part, sounds worse out of 5.1 speakers than 2.1 speakers. It causes quicker listening fatigue as well as alters the music from its originally intended form. While you may have "set the balance" so that the negative effects are lessened, you'd probably still be better off listening to music in stereo in most situations.

So, I would say your $7.99 card is not as good, especially if there is no way to turn off 5.1 stereo
Click to expand...

That's a very good explanation and it sounds reasonable.

But remember, the $7.99 card allows you to simply change it to stereo by using the Windows volume/speaker configuration or in the Via audio controls, no extra software or hassles needed. You have a choice that is easy to make, so it should work great for everybody.

Listening to MP3's in matrix or party mode does sound worse, but listening in true 5.1 sounds better than regular stereo to me. But that's a personal opinion....
Click to expand...

I'm confused on what true 5.1 means to you. The 5.1 upmix is the same thing as matrix mode is the same as party mode is the same as 5.1 stereo is the same as whatever marketing term was used for whatever sound card.
 
Originally posted by: unfalliblekrutch

I'm confused on what true 5.1 means to you. The 5.1 upmix is the same thing as matrix mode is the same as party mode is the same as 5.1 stereo is the same as whatever marketing term was used for whatever sound card.
Click to expand...

I realize that MP3's are not natively recorded in 5.1.

If you have a sound card that cannot output separate channels from each of the jacks,
then you have to use the matrix/party mode to get sound out of all the speakers.

This does not sound natural, and you cannot adjust the front, rear or center balance.
Music usually sounds better in plain stereo.

If your sound card does support separate outputs for each jack and corresponding channel,
then you can use the software to adjust the balance, surround and mix options to whatever you desire. No, this solution isn't natural either. But if you have good speakers and adjust everything the way you want, then music comes out of all speakers sounding much better than natural stereo. At least it does to me, and once you have that, anything less just isn't good enough any more.

 
"If you have a sound card that cannot output separate channels from each of the jacks,
then you have to use the matrix/party mode to get sound out of all the speakers. "

That's wrong. Even if your sound card has outputs for each channel; in most cases you still have to use an upmix mode on any less than 5.1 channel source to get sound from all speakers. This upmix maybe in the soundcard software or in the speakers themselves.

If you like how it sounds upmixed thats great to each his own.
 
Originally posted by: WraithETC
"If you have a sound card that cannot output separate channels from each of the jacks,
then you have to use the matrix/party mode to get sound out of all the speakers. "

That's wrong. Even if your sound card has outputs for each channel; in most cases you still have to use an upmix mode on any less than 5.1 channel source to get sound from all speakers. This upmix maybe in the soundcard software or in the speakers themselves.

If you like how it sounds upmixed thats great to each his own.
Click to expand...

If the upmix mode is automatically enabled in the software, it still sounds different than using the upmix mode on the speakers themselves. If it is being enabled by software, at least it allows you full access to all of the balance, surround and mix controls. If you use upmix on the speakers themselves, you cannot control any balance features.

 
You must log in or register to reply here.

TRENDING THREADS

Back
Top