TRUE 120 Push/Pull Questions

[Bloodstriker]

I just installed a second fan on the TRUE 120 1366. Both fans are identical Thermaltake 120mm 1600 RPM fans.

I was hoping to see some sort of a temperature drop, but ... nothing.

At stock, the 920 Real Temp readings are:

TRUE Single Fan - Idle 39/ Load 62
TRUE Push/Pull - Idle 39/ Load 61

The heatsink is oriented so that the first fan is pushing air from the front of the case towards the heatsink. The new fan is setup so that it pulls air away from the heatsink directly towards the rear exaust fan.

Would this indicate a seating problem with the heatsink? I'm thinking that, since the fans are running properly (and facing the right directions), the reason that I'm not seeing any temp drops is because the heat isn't really getting to the fins in the first place.

I'm wondering if anyone has any suggestions or ideas?

 

[brblx]

if one fan is blowing into the heatsink and the other is blowing out, you're not really doing anything but making extra noise. the air around the fins of the sink is already being displaced by the air coming through the pusher fan- the puller is just guiding it a bit more effectively.

if you take two 50cfm fans and stack them together, the resulting air flow is not 100cfm, since one fan is just pushing the same air the other would be sucking through anyway.

edit to clarify- some heatsinks would surely benefit from two fans. i just don't think the TRUE is thick enough to warrant more than one good 120mm fan.

 

[Bloodstriker]

Originally posted by: brblx
if one fan is blowing into the heatsink and the other is blowing out, you're not really doing anything but making extra noise. the air around the fins of the sink is already being displaced by the air coming through the pusher fan- the puller is just guiding it a bit more effectively.

if you take two 50cfm fans and stack them together, the resulting air flow is not 100cfm, since they're just feeding each other the same air they would be sucking through anyway.

Hmm... so there's not really much benefit to a push-pull setup?

I'm kind of following you on this - so based on what you're saying, the puller is simply guiding the hot air out of the case a bit more effectively, which may or may not effect total case temps very much since there's already a case fan about 2 inches away..

So is there any other benefit to push-pull on a heat sink?

Or is there a better way to set this up?

haha or did I just waste 20 bucks on a fan and holder?

 

[brblx]

i think push-pull would probably be a little more effective on a larger heatsink. you've probably got pretty good airflow around all the fins of that cooler with one fan.

although your temps do seem kinda hig, did not realize at first that you were not overclocked. not super high, just a few degrees past what i'd think (low-mid thirties at idle) you might try reseating it. what kind of thermal paste did you use? what the case temp?

 

[Bloodstriker]

I used MX 2 thermal paste. Yeah, realize my temps are a bit high, not not to an extreme. If I OC to 3.4, it idles at around the same while load temps hit 68c.

I think I'll try to reseat the TRUE again.

How do I check case temps?

One thing I noticed is that if I open one side of the case, temps drop by about 5c. I'm not sure if this is an indication of poor airflow or of this is normal with aN Antec P182?

 

[Rubycon]

I found little improvement with push pull on the TRUE. The Promlimatech Megahalems does benefit from push pull. It's thicker too. Much quieter than having a single fan with airflow matching the sum of the two fans. Megahalems whistles at airflows exceeding 100CFM. Funny thing is an Adda server fan (110CFM) whistles like a train but a 135CFM Delta does not. (but sounds like a vacuum cleaner!) :Q

 

[Bloodstriker]

I'm just thinking - if adding a second fan doesn't increase cfm, would it be better if I simply got a more powerful fan? The problem is that I'm looking to keep the noise levels as low as possible.

 

[brblx]

it sounds like you need better case airflow. if you're idling <35* with an unlapped heatsink with the side off, that seems pretty good. ideally you'd like to see about the same with the side on.

have you got a good path of air through the case? in at the front and exhaust at the top and/or back? i'm guessing your cpu fan(s) are pointing towards a rear exhaust fan?

 

[faxon]

Originally posted by: Rubycon
I found little improvement with push pull on the TRUE. The Promlimatech Megahalems does benefit from push pull. It's thicker too. Much quieter than having a single fan with airflow matching the sum of the two fans. Megahalems whistles at airflows exceeding 100CFM. Funny thing is an Adda server fan (110CFM) whistles like a train but a 135CFM Delta does not. (but sounds like a vacuum cleaner!) :Q

while i havent had any whistling issues, i can definitely agree that the megahalems benefits from push/pull. im big on quiet, since my computer is in my bedroom, so having 2 low speed yates gets me the same cooling performance as if i stuck a medium/high speed fan on there. it probably helps that the megahalems also has plenty of space on top and some cracks on the sides to suck more air in through as well, where as the TRUE, not being split down the center, does not. i run a hepafilter on low 24/7 under my desk for allergies and athsma, and none of my computers are any louder than it is (and it doesnt bother me). maybe 25-28db ambient @ about 2-3 feet, it's not bad, considering my bed is like 10 feet away. can hardly hear it over there

 

[Bloodstriker]

Originally posted by: brblx
it sounds like you need better case airflow. if you're idling <35* with an unlapped heatsink with the side off, that seems pretty good. ideally you'd like to see about the same with the side on.

have you got a good path of air through the case? in at the front and exhaust at the top and/or back? i'm guessing your cpu fan(s) are pointing towards a rear exhaust fan?

The cpu fans are pointing to a rear exhaust fan. There's another fan on top of the case for exhaust. I believe there's a 3rd fan in the case, but I'm not sure where.

I should look into this and see where the intake is coming from. Maybe moving that 2nd fan on the TRUE would be better served as case fan for intake.

EDIT:

I just checked the website and it seems that the 3rd fan is located at the lower chamber of the case. I'll try different fan configs to see what happens.

 

[1ManArmY]

I'm running a push/pull configuration with my TRUE 120 and I didn't see any drop in temps.

I replaced the stock 1600 RPM fan and bracket with 2 Panaflo fans with clips. I still I unable to get the advertised idle temps of the TRUE 120 but my load temps stay below 70. I idle anywhere between 38-42. Running 20 X 150 mild OC of 3.0 Load low 60's

I gave up after the 3rd attempt of reseating the TRUE120. I used the instructions from Artic Silver 5 (line method for core i7)

 

[yh125d]

Cool kids run their TRUEs passive

 

[zagood]

The effectiveness of the TRUE does top out at around 75 combined CFM. What you could try though is lowering the speed of the two fans. You can probably maintain the same temperatures with a much lower speed and, consequently, less noise.

 

[Bloodstriker]

Originally posted by: 1ManArmY
I'm running a push/pull configuration with my TRUE 120 and I didn't see any drop in temps.

I replaced the stock 1600 RPM fan and bracket with 2 Panaflo fans with clips. I still I unable to get the advertised idle temps of the TRUE 120 but my load temps stay below 70. I idle anywhere between 38-42. Running 20 X 150 mild OC of 3.0 Load low 60's

I gave up after the 3rd attempt of reseating the TRUE120. I used the instructions from Artic Silver 5 (line method for core i7)

You're situation sounds very similar to mine, except that at 3.4GHz, I'm at 75C load. I'm planning to spend a bit of time moving the 2nd fan on the TRUE to the front of the case. I'll report back. Hopefully, I can shed some more light on what's going on.

 

[1ManArmY]

Originally posted by: Bloodstriker

Originally posted by: 1ManArmY
I'm running a push/pull configuration with my TRUE 120 and I didn't see any drop in temps.

I replaced the stock 1600 RPM fan and bracket with 2 Panaflo fans with clips. I still I unable to get the advertised idle temps of the TRUE 120 but my load temps stay below 70. I idle anywhere between 38-42. Running 20 X 150 mild OC of 3.0 Load low 60's

I gave up after the 3rd attempt of reseating the TRUE120. I used the instructions from Artic Silver 5 (line method for core i7)

You're situation sounds very similar to mine, except that at 3.4GHz, I'm at 75C load. I'm planning to spend a bit of time moving the 2nd fan on the TRUE to the front of the case. I'll report back. Hopefully, I can shed some more light on what's going on.

what case do you have? I also have 3 yate loons 120mm fans (2 blowing on the hard drives and GFX cards and 1 as an exhaust fan in addition to 2 230mm exhaust fans on top and 1 230mm in the front as an intake fan.

 

[Bloodstriker]

Originally posted by: 1ManArmY

Originally posted by: Bloodstriker

Originally posted by: 1ManArmY
I'm running a push/pull configuration with my TRUE 120 and I didn't see any drop in temps.

I replaced the stock 1600 RPM fan and bracket with 2 Panaflo fans with clips. I still I unable to get the advertised idle temps of the TRUE 120 but my load temps stay below 70. I idle anywhere between 38-42. Running 20 X 150 mild OC of 3.0 Load low 60's

I gave up after the 3rd attempt of reseating the TRUE120. I used the instructions from Artic Silver 5 (line method for core i7)

You're situation sounds very similar to mine, except that at 3.4GHz, I'm at 75C load. I'm planning to spend a bit of time moving the 2nd fan on the TRUE to the front of the case. I'll report back. Hopefully, I can shed some more light on what's going on.

what case do you have? I also have 3 yate loons 120mm fans (2 blowing on the hard drives and GFX cards and 1 as an exhaust fan in addition to 2 230mm exhaust fans on top and 1 230mm in the front as an intake fan.

Actually I think the 75c load was at 3.40 GHz with the HSF facing the wrong way. I lowered the OC to 3.30GHz because it would have problems waking from sleep mode.

I've just moved the 2nd HSF fan and now I'm using it at the front of the case for intake. The case is a P182, the TRUE has the stock 1600 RPM fan on it, and I am also using an identical fan at the front of the case for intake. (It's a Thermalright TR-FDB-12-1600 Stealth Silent Fan, 120mm, 1600 RPM, 63.7 CFM, 28 dB/A).

I'm still finding no difference.

Here are the temps I have so far with different configs:

1. CPU (stock), TRUE single fan, rear exhaust stock case fan, top exhaust stock case fan - Idle 39/ Load 62.

2. CPU (stock), TRUE Push/Pull, rear exhaust stock case fan, top exhaust stock case fan - Idle 39/ Load 61.

3. CPU (3.30, vcore/QPI 1.20v), TRUE Push/Pull, rear exhaust stock case fan, top exhaust stock case fan - Idle 42/ Load 65.

4. CPU (3.30, vcore/QPI 1.20v), TRUE single fan, front intake fan, rear exhaust stock case fan, top exhaust stock case fan - Idle 41/ Load 65.

5. One side of CASE OPEN>> CPU (3.30, vcore/QPI 1.20v), TRUE single fan, front intake fan, rear exhaust stock case fan, top exhaust stock case fan - Idle 38/ Load 62.

So basically, moving the 2nd fan from the heatsink and using it as an intake fan didn't make a difference. I find this really strange, as I can definitely feel more air being pulled into the case from the front with this new setup.

Does anyone have a P182 with the front fans installed? If so, did it make a difference to CPU temps?

Oh, also, I noticed that my top fan is stuck on the low setting. The speed setting on the back of the case isn't doing anything for this fan, but works fine for the rear fan. I check the wires and it all looks fine (at least I think so). Strange..

I think my temps aren't too out of whack right now. I'm just starting to find all this tinkering with the computer pretty fun....

EDIT: ambient temp is about 23C.

 

[sxr7171]

Originally posted by: zagood
The effectiveness of the TRUE does top out at around 75 combined CFM. What you could try though is lowering the speed of the two fans. You can probably maintain the same temperatures with a much lower speed and, consequently, less noise.

Yes, that's exactly where it matters. If mounted correctly you can reduce speeds on those fans. Your static pressure drops considerably when you lower the speed on a fan, having 2 fans in push-pull will distribute the work of having air flow through the HS.

Anyway I wish you could mount it so that airflow from the HS goes directly up and into your 230mm fan(s), heat likes to travel upward.

That having been said, I guess your next step is to start lapping the IHS, I guess that interface is the limitation here and not the HS or the air flowing through it. How hot is the HS BTW?

 

[1ManArmY]

I'm running my vcore @ 1.10 and my room temps are ~ 27 - 30.
Very satisfied with my TRUE 120 even though I'm not getting the advertised temps but it does it's job when my core i7 is under full load i.e LINX,Prime 95 other than that nothing causes it to reach high temps during everyday use.

 

[Bloodstriker]

Originally posted by: sxr7171

Originally posted by: zagood
The effectiveness of the TRUE does top out at around 75 combined CFM. What you could try though is lowering the speed of the two fans. You can probably maintain the same temperatures with a much lower speed and, consequently, less noise.

Yes, that's exactly where it matters. If mounted correctly you can reduce speeds on those fans. Your static pressure drops considerably when you lower the speed on a fan, having 2 fans in push-pull will distribute the work of having air flow through the HS.

Anyway I wish you could mount it so that airflow from the HS goes directly up and into your 230mm fan(s), heat likes to travel upward.

That having been said, I guess your next step is to start lapping the IHS, I guess that interface is the limitation here and not the HS or the air flowing through it. How hot is the HS BTW?

How would I check the temps on the heatsink? By touch, it's not hot at all. I would say it feels like room temp or tad bit more than room temp?