Troubleshooting serious oil leaks (1993 Honda Accord, 175k miles)

[Mojoed]

My last oil change I was 3 quarts down and I was told I had "significant leak(s)" by the guy at Walmart. Now I've been REAL bad as far as maintenance goes on my car for the past few years. It was probably 24+ months since my last oil change, (Yeah I know I'm an idiot ) so I figured it was at least possible I was leakless and the low oil was due to my engine burning very small amounts of oil over a very long period of time.

So I took a look for myself. The undercarriage of my car is a complete MESS. The entire area, pretty much from axle to axle to the front pipe area is soaked with oil and slow dripping. However viewing the engine from the top I saw no oil leaks anywhere. Anyway, I'm a completely clueless when it comes to cars so I brought my car to my new mechanic to troubleshoot the leaks.

The following is an approximation of what the mechanic told me regarding the leaks:

"You probably have several leaks. I'd start with the distributor seal and valve cover gasket and we'll see from there. If you want to go with that, it's gonna be around $150.00."

The word that stuck out to me there was "probably." I've been burnt a few times by mechanics so earning my trust is a difficult thing. I asked them to troubleshoot my issues (at full labor cost to me) and report exactly what needs to be done to resolve the issue(s).

My questions:

1) Does the above advice sound like the proper way to diagnose leaks? (It sounded to me like he was guessing)
2) Is $150 a reasonable cost for the above repairs?
3) What are all the other possible locations for oil leaks?
3) Should I be more trusting?
4) Wouldn't it be better to clean the engine & undercarriage, THEN see where the leaks are coming from?
5) If I were to clean/spray my engine out myself, are there any areas I should avoid blasting, or is it alright to just spray the entire thing? Also, is this something I can do at home with a hose, or should I do it with the hose at one of those manual car wash places?

Again, I'm a complete newbie when it comes to cars. I apologize for the simple questions. Any other advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Sniper82]

Have you dragged the bottom of the car at any point that you can remember? Its possible it could be a oil pan leak. When you can see the oil slowly drip thats bad.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Have the engine bay steam cleaned professionally. Then check frequently to see where the oil comes back at.

ZV

 

[Colt45]

Wash it down, take it for a spin, and see where it's leaking.

no point changing the valve cover seal if it isn't leaking up top..

 

[Eli]

lol @ not changing the oil in 2 years. Had you added any oil during that time? If not, it may not be leaking that badly. Monitor it for the next few weeks.

 

[NutBucket]

Honestly, 3 quarts low over 2 years isn't so surprising. Clean the engine yes, but don't replace anything yet. Chances are if you don't notice oil spots where you usually park you're probably fine.

 

[Eli]

I'm shocked the oil was still oil after 2 years and being 3 quarts low.. :laugh:

Ugh. Poor engine. Does it smoke at all?

 

[boomerang]

I guess I'll be an ass and ask why the sudden urge to take care of the car? You've let it go this long so just add oil as needed. The car is nearly 15 years old.

Why throw good money into it?

 

[steppinthrax]

Originally posted by: Eli
I'm shocked the oil was still oil after 2 years and being 3 quarts low.. :laugh:

Ugh. Poor engine. Does it smoke at all?

It's a honda

 

[steppinthrax]

Your've probably going to find that you will end up changing just about every seal/gasket in the car. Normally when one oil seal/gasket leaks and you replace that one another seal will leak. This is common in the older cars esp. if you don't keep up on maintining reg oil changes. My wife's 91 camry did this. She never changed her oild just kept adding. I changed the timming cover then the distributor then the oil pan then the front cam finally the rear main seals. Every time I changed a seal another began to leak due to increased oil pressure.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: steppinthrax

Originally posted by: Eli
I'm shocked the oil was still oil after 2 years and being 3 quarts low.. :laugh:

Ugh. Poor engine. Does it smoke at all?

It's a honda

I've been behind plenty of Hondas that are burning copious amounts of oil. There's nothing magic about them. Mistreat them and they'll burn oil, take care of them and they'll last a long time. Just like American cars.

ZV

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: steppinthrax
I changed the timming cover then the distributor then the oil pan then the front cam finally the rear main seals. Every time I changed a seal another began to leak due to increased oil pressure.

Considering that the distributor seal, cam seal, valve/timing cover, and oil pan gasket wouldn't affect oil pressure in any significant amount, I'm going to have to call BS on the claim that the other seals blew from increased oil pressure. Of the gaskets listed, only the rear main seal is under anything close to significant pressure.

ZV

 

[steppinthrax]

All engine seals gaskets are under the oil contact as well as similar pressures. When one goes they usually each start going one by one. Especially if you don't change your oil.

 

[Colt45]

Where do you guys come up with this shit...

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: steppinthrax
All engine seals gaskets are under the oil contact as well as similar pressures. When one goes they usually each start going one by one. Especially if you don't change your oil.

I think I'll go with Zenmervolt on this one:laugh:
Although I do remember one time I screwed my oil filter on too tight, and my sunroof seal blew from the increased pressure. So maybe there's something to it.

OP, you are right to be suspicious of the mechanic's technique. Your best bet is to clean the engine really well, and THEN see where the oil's leaking from. Although after neglecting your car for two years, I can't imagine what other problems will start to crop up...

 

[Mojoed]

Originally posted by: Sniper82
Have you dragged the bottom of the car at any point that you can remember? Its possible it could be a oil pan leak. When you can see the oil slowly drip thats bad.

I recently moved to Virginia (two months ago) and I do bottom out much more often than I ever did in Massachusetts. Even when I'm driving very slowly, I seem to bottom out at least once a week now. So many uneven dirt roads down here.

 

[Mojoed]

Originally posted by: Eli
lol @ not changing the oil in 2 years. Had you added any oil during that time? If not, it may not be leaking that badly. Monitor it for the next few weeks.

I didn't do any maintenance at all for at least two years. I have a feeling I'm gonna be paying for that mistake. Oh, and the engine doesn't smoke at all. In fact it still runs pretty much flawlessly, but I really don't want to push my luck anymore.

 

[dud]

"It was probably 24+ months since my last oil change"

Unbelievable.

You should consider yourself lucky that the car even runs. I wouldn't be surprised if what oil is left (in the crankcase) hasn't turned to varnish.

IMHO I would pay the $150 to change those gaskets, change the oil, clean the engine COMPLETELY and then monitor the lower engine area for at least a month.

I would then start looking for another set of wheels ...

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: steppinthrax
All engine seals gaskets are under the oil contact as well as similar pressures. When one goes they usually each start going one by one. Especially if you don't change your oil.

The oil pan is not pressurized. The upper cam tower is not pressurized. The cams and valvetrain are splash-lubed, the only pressure is in the delivery piping, not at the cam tower gasket or the valve cover gasket. The distributor seal area is not pressurized.

You clearly do not understand how the oil delivery system works.

ZV

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: steppinthrax
All engine seals gaskets are under the oil contact as well as similar pressures. When one goes they usually each start going one by one. Especially if you don't change your oil.

The oil pan is not pressurized. The upper cam tower is not pressurized. The cams and valvetrain are splash-lubed, the only pressure is in the delivery piping, not at the cam tower gasket or the valve cover gasket. The distributor seal area is not pressurized.

You clearly do not understand how the oil delivery system works.

ZV

he didn't say pressurized. he said pressures. i read it as the same as stresses. being heat, age, freezes, etc. seems to me that definition fits much better in the context that steppinthrax used.

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: steppinthrax
All engine seals gaskets are under the oil contact as well as similar pressures. When one goes they usually each start going one by one. Especially if you don't change your oil.

The oil pan is not pressurized. The upper cam tower is not pressurized. The cams and valvetrain are splash-lubed, the only pressure is in the delivery piping, not at the cam tower gasket or the valve cover gasket. The distributor seal area is not pressurized.

You clearly do not understand how the oil delivery system works.

ZV

he didn't say pressurized. he said pressures. i read it as the same as stresses. being heat, age, freezes, etc. seems to me that definition fits much better in the context that steppinthrax used.

He said "similar pressures", which isn't true. Earlier he said "increased oil pressure", so clearly he's not using it as a synonym for "stresses".

 

[thomsbrain]

unless you got the leak in the last few weeks, there's no way the entire bottom of the front end got coated in oil and yet you're only 3 quarts down. A leak of a magnitude capable of that kind of mess should have ran the oil pan dry pretty quickly. When my 4th gen accord was that old, it used 1 quart per 1,000 miles, and though it leaked a little towards the end of my ownership (200K+ miles), most of that was just being burned by the engine. I'd recommend you drive it a for a while and monitor the oil closely. If it goes 500 miles without any obvious change in oil level, I'd start wondering if Mr. Walmart didn't just spread a little oil around after he drained the pan so he could scare the crap out of you and sell you some expensive services.

if you've really got an oil leak, I'd recommend you start looking for a newer car rather than try to fix it. When my Accord started leaking from the rear main seal, my trusted mechanic said it would cost a lot to fix it, and recommended I start looking for a new car rather than worry about it. I took his advice.

 

[chucky2]

Just passing through while I'm waiting on the parents (Yeesh, if they're this bad now, I don't want to know how they're going to be in 10 more years...), but I'll go with 1.) clean the underside (by steam instead of pressure wash if possible), 2.) find out where the leak is, 3.) fix leak, 4.) have them change the oil and filter after they're done with their work, 5.) monitor for more leaks, 6.) when there's no more leaks hopefully after 500 miles, change that oil and filter, then do a 2 bottle Auto-RX deal on it (following the sludge/seal leak instructions very carefully...go with a NAPA Gold/Wix filter, those should be readily available...oil just a good dino, Havoline dino from Walmart is probably best price/performance).

7.) Drive it until it dies.

Chuck

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: jagec

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: steppinthrax
All engine seals gaskets are under the oil contact as well as similar pressures. When one goes they usually each start going one by one. Especially if you don't change your oil.

The oil pan is not pressurized. The upper cam tower is not pressurized. The cams and valvetrain are splash-lubed, the only pressure is in the delivery piping, not at the cam tower gasket or the valve cover gasket. The distributor seal area is not pressurized.

You clearly do not understand how the oil delivery system works.

ZV

he didn't say pressurized. he said pressures. i read it as the same as stresses. being heat, age, freezes, etc. seems to me that definition fits much better in the context that steppinthrax used.

He said "similar pressures", which isn't true. Earlier he said "increased oil pressure", so clearly he's not using it as a synonym for "stresses".

Thanks for saving me the trouble of pointing that out. :beer:

ZV

 

[ElFenix]

and this is what i get when i read only the last post in a line of conversation