Troubles in Small town, USA

sMiLeYz

Platinum Member
Feb 3, 2003
2,696
0
76
While we're discussing the issues of Iraq, the middle east, and the world. I think we've lost focus on whats going on in our country.

While American troops are fighting overseas and money is pouring into rebuilding Iraq, our economy is faltering, unemployment is rampant and most people still cant afford the outrageous price of Health Care. We have a ineffective taxcut plan that lives out the middle and poor class, and a the biggest deficit in our Nation's history... normal people are starting to question President Bush's policies.

Whats going on in Peoria, Ohio...
 

MadRat

Lifer
Oct 14, 1999
11,909
229
106
They make it sound like a revolution is coming with their bleak outlook.
 

phillyTIM

Golden Member
Jan 12, 2001
1,942
10
81
I see all these symptoms when I go back home to smallville Pennsylvania. The infrastructure is breaking down from neglect. Not only about jobs, but the political infrastructure is breaking down also--because of our "leaders" who burn the constitution while wrapping themselves in the american flag.

Bleakness is reality in America, sorry to say. Our leaders shun the working stiffs for big game internationalism.
 

rudder

Lifer
Nov 9, 2000
19,441
85
91
All these people that ar complaining about the economy are the same ones praising the fact that their mutual funds were returning 8000%. The stock market is driven by profits and in order to keep increasing profits companies had to cut costs.

With high-paying jobs lost to Mexico and other foreign countries, secure positions at good wages are tough to find. If you're unlucky enough to lose your job, chances are your new employer will pay you much less than you earned before. And if you're not careful, you may wind up on a very slippery slope.


Something had to give.
 

Mursilis

Diamond Member
Mar 11, 2001
7,756
11
81
What a bunch of whining.
The U.S. economy has merely slowed, not stopped or shrunk. Most other countries would kill for such a soft economic slump. Compare to the current, 10-year-old, Japanese recession.
Health care is expensive because Americans have been neglecting their health - for example, nearly 2/3 of the U.S. population is overweight, according to Dept. of HHS stats. Obesity has been linked to increased risk of everything from cardiovascular disease to cancer. That many fat slobs is going to place an obvious burden on the health care system.
Regarding taxes, of course the wealthy benefit more from cuts - they pay more. The poor pay practically nothing, and the middle class pay a disproportionately small share as well (if they're smart and know how to manage their money). Heck, my federal tax bill this year was only 4% of my income. It's called deductions - look into it.
If normal people think things are so bad, they need to start looking around for a better country in which to live. Good luck finding one.
 

Ornery

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
20,022
17
81
Priorities for the Federal government should start with stable national security. Everything else is in jeopardy if that is shaky. Bottom line: We're on the right track! The economy WILL pick up under GWB's watch, though he doesn't really have any control over it. Tax breaks are a good idea to promote businesses and jobs, so I'd stay the course there too. Revenues will ultimately increase after the market takes off again... and it WILL!
 

Mursilis

Diamond Member
Mar 11, 2001
7,756
11
81
Originally posted by: Ornery
Priorities for the Federal government should start with stable national security. Everything else is in jeopardy if that is shaky. Bottom line: We're on the right track! The economy WILL pick up under GWB's watch, though he doesn't really have any control over it. Tax breaks are a good idea to promote businesses and jobs, so I'd stay the course there too. Revenues will ultimately increase after the market takes off again... and it WILL!

That's all well and good as far as it goes, but I seriously doubt tax revenues will increase enough to cover expenditures, especially given the coming burdens on Social Security and Medicare. Deficits will likely continue until the country decides to get serious about this problem.
 

shiner

Lifer
Jul 18, 2000
17,116
1
0
Originally posted by: sMiLeYz
While we're discussing the issues of Iraq, the middle east, and the world. I think we've lost focus on whats going on in our country.

While American troops are fighting overseas and money is pouring into rebuilding Iraq, our economy is faltering, unemployment is rampant and most people still cant afford the outrageous price of Health Care. We have a ineffective taxcut plan that lives out the middle and poor class, and a the biggest deficit in our Nation's history... normal people are starting to question President Bush's policies.
Phhht......call me when it get's as bad as it was in 1979....then you can complain.....
 

Ornery

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
20,022
17
81
"Deficits will likely continue until the country decides to get serious about this problem."

If that seriousness takes the form of privatizing Social Security and NOT creating more programs, such as National Health Care, I think we'll be fine. I'll be backing all viable candidates who choose to follow that path.
 

Mursilis

Diamond Member
Mar 11, 2001
7,756
11
81
Originally posted by: Ornery
"Deficits will likely continue until the country decides to get serious about this problem."

If that seriousness takes the form of privatizing Social Security and NOT creating more programs, such as National Health Care, I think we'll be fine. I'll be backing all viable candidates who choose to follow that path.

I'd support that as well, but how likely is it to happen? Not very, IMHO. The people are way too wedded to gov't support. Libertarianism is just too scary for the masses. Look at the pressure on the fed. gov't to implement some sort of prescription drug coverage. The fed. gov't is the new mommy.
 

BaliBabyDoc

Lifer
Jan 20, 2001
10,737
0
0
As long as AARPs vote you might as well keep your privatize SS idea to yourself b/c few pols will touch it.
 

Ornery

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
20,022
17
81
The GOP candidates are the only ones who have had the balls to discuss privatization. Despite a decent economy and being incumbent, the Democrats took a beating in total counties across the country, and the counties who support the Dems are growing FAR less than GOP dominated ones. Either they totally espouse the GOP agenda, and use it as their own, or it's over for their party!

I guess they'll always have abortion and more welfare to call their own. Heh, nice platform to build on.
rolleye.gif
 

BaliBabyDoc

Lifer
Jan 20, 2001
10,737
0
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The truth is that many small towns (read single industry or company) were not riding 8000% returns on mutual funds.
rolleye.gif
Unskilled and semi-skilled labor cannot compete with foreign production of goods. NAFTA accelerated the trend but isn't the primary reason American workers (low-end) have lost out. Reagan never cared, Bush never noticed, Clinton was busy, and GWBush is apparently going for the cycle.

Tax cuts will not produce jobs as promised by Bush et al in these towns. They will not ressurect Bethlehem Steel, they will not encourage companies to move overseas production ops back to the states, and they certainly will not prompt companies to leave tax havens.

Made in the USA is just as likely to come from American Samoa as it is Smalltown, USA.

Suppy-siders laud Reagan-era tax cuts (although Reagan did raise some taxes . . . and he did it alot as governor of CA) for the 80-90s boom. They've dumped the early 90s recession on GHWBush and apparently the tech bust is Clinton's fault. Curiously, Bush/Clinton tax increases (and Fed policy) ultimately allowed the US economy to get over the hump and produce surpluses. Clinton did not need a stimulus package when he came to office (mostly wasteful spending) and Bush doesn't need an election growth:gift: package, either. What America needs is sound fiscal policy . . . across EVERY government activity and starting with big dogs like DOD, SS, and Medicare.
 

sMiLeYz

Platinum Member
Feb 3, 2003
2,696
0
76
Originally posted by: Ornery
The GOP candidates are the only ones who have had the balls to discuss privatization. Despite a decent economy and being incumbent, the Democrats took a beating in total counties across the country, and the counties who support the Dems are growing FAR less than GOP dominated ones. Either they totally espouse the GOP agenda, and use it as their own, or it's over for their party!

I guess they'll always have abortion and more welfare to call their own. Heh, nice platform to build on.
rolleye.gif

We're having a crisis in our country right now... I'm sorry if you're too blinded by GOP party lines to see that this affects the lives of all americans in general not just those dirty democrats.


 

Ornery

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
20,022
17
81
The "dirty Democrats" have no plan to even get elected again, let alone a plan to fix what's broken with the economy. As if that were fixable by some kind of "plan" anyway.

Uh, you didn't happen to notice the state of the economies of other nations around the globe, did you? I'd say the glass is half full, where the USA is concerned, IMO.
 

ConclamoLudus

Senior member
Jan 16, 2003
572
0
0
Originally posted by: sMiLeYz
Originally posted by: Ornery
The GOP candidates are the only ones who have had the balls to discuss privatization. Despite a decent economy and being incumbent, the Democrats took a beating in total counties across the country, and the counties who support the Dems are growing FAR less than GOP dominated ones. Either they totally espouse the GOP agenda, and use it as their own, or it's over for their party!

I guess they'll always have abortion and more welfare to call their own. Heh, nice platform to build on.
rolleye.gif

We're having a crisis in our country right now... I'm sorry if you're too blinded by GOP party lines to see that this affects the lives of all americans in general not just those dirty democrats.

The economy is in a crisis right now, but these crises come and go, and its going to take time for this one to go, no matter who is at the wheel of the presidency. Its been posted many times, the presidents do not have a lot to do with the economy and the economy is not going to perk up overnight, it may get worse before it gets better but it will get better. Tax cuts mean more money in the hands of people, and if you've got it you'll spend it. The rich get the break more because, they'll spend more. (oversimplification, yes but the basics are there)

We're still paying for that big-@ss tech bubble. Its going to be a tough few years, but it'll come around again, it always does.
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: sMiLeYz
While we're discussing the issues of Iraq, the middle east, and the world. I think we've lost focus on whats going on in our country.

While American troops are fighting overseas and money is pouring into rebuilding Iraq, our economy is faltering, unemployment is rampant and most people still cant afford the outrageous price of Health Care. We have a ineffective taxcut plan that lives out the middle and poor class, and a the biggest deficit in our Nation's history... normal people are starting to question President Bush's policies.

Whats going on in Peoria, Ohio...

The sky is falling, The sky is falling, The sky is falling!

<--runs around screaming and flailing his arms :p

rolleye.gif


CkG
 

sMiLeYz

Platinum Member
Feb 3, 2003
2,696
0
76
Originally posted by: Ornery
The "dirty Democrats" have no plan to even get elected again, let alone a plan to fix what's broken with the economy. As if that were fixable by some kind of "plan" anyway.

Uh, you didn't happen to notice the state of the economies of other nations around the globe, did you? I'd say the glass is half full, where the USA is concerned, IMO.

The democrat canadiates dont even need a plan, they could run on how miserable the state of the union right now under the current administration and win by a landslide. Democrats will vote for a blind-deaf monkey given the fact that it cant get much worse than it is under the current administration.

Our Economy cant be fixed by sound economical policies... right...
rolleye.gif


Apparently you've never heard of a little democrat called Franklin Roosevelt and his little plan called the "New Deal" which brought us out of the depression.








 

sMiLeYz

Platinum Member
Feb 3, 2003
2,696
0
76
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: sMiLeYz
While we're discussing the issues of Iraq, the middle east, and the world. I think we've lost focus on whats going on in our country.

While American troops are fighting overseas and money is pouring into rebuilding Iraq, our economy is faltering, unemployment is rampant and most people still cant afford the outrageous price of Health Care. We have a ineffective taxcut plan that lives out the middle and poor class, and a the biggest deficit in our Nation's history... normal people are starting to question President Bush's policies.

Whats going on in Peoria, Ohio...

The sky is falling, The sky is falling, The sky is falling!

<--runs around screaming and flailing his arms :p



CkG

Apparently the point flew right over your head
rolleye.gif

 

UltraQuiet

Banned
Sep 22, 2001
5,755
0
0
The democrat canadiates dont even need a plan, they could run on how miserable the state of the union right now under the current administration and win by a landslide.

You mean just like last November?
 

sMiLeYz

Platinum Member
Feb 3, 2003
2,696
0
76
Originally posted by: Ultra Quiet
The democrat canadiates dont even need a plan, they could run on how miserable the state of the union right now under the current administration and win by a landslide.

You mean just like last November?

I mean like election 2004...

You think that the additional 500,000 votes Gore got over Bush in 2000 were from Republicans? I didnt even mention the votes Nader got.
 

Corn

Diamond Member
Nov 12, 1999
6,389
29
91
Apparently you've never heard of a little democrat called Franklin Roosevelt and his little plan called the "New Deal" which brought us out of the depression.

Well, it can't be said that the Democrats don't have a sense of humor!
 

Mursilis

Diamond Member
Mar 11, 2001
7,756
11
81
Originally posted by: Ornery
Here's another man's opinion:I can't prove my opinion is right either, but who cares? You know what they say about opinions...

You beat me to it. Anyway, here's more on the subject:

Because the US was still in a state of depression when it entered World War II, it is hard to make a serious argument that the New Deal was a success. The reasons, however are open to debate. Some argue that the inherent instability of a market economy caused such a bad depression that even the well-chosen interventions of the New Deal could not correct it quickly. Others argue that because this longest depression in US history was also marked by the greatest degree of government intervention in US history, it is more reasonable to argue that government action worsened, rather than lessened, the severity of the depression.

It is known that Roosevelt's New Deal programs were initially struck down by the Supreme Court, so that his initial interventions in the economy were all halted. During this time the economy was on a slow improving trend. After the Court began to uphold his interventionist legislation, the economy took a sharp downward dip, which has been called a depression within a depression, from which it was only slowly recovering when the US entered WWII. Thus it is claimed that his intervention delayed the economic recovery that had been underway. This argument is supported by the fact that his programs significantly increased business costs and uncertainty about future government interventions, thus inhibiting business investment and hiring.

Taken from here.

Yeah, I guess we owe Mr. Roosevelt a big 'thanks' for that.
rolleye.gif
 

UltraQuiet

Banned
Sep 22, 2001
5,755
0
0
Originally posted by: sMiLeYz
Originally posted by: Ultra Quiet
The democrat canadiates dont even need a plan, they could run on how miserable the state of the union right now under the current administration and win by a landslide.

You mean just like last November?

I mean like election 2004...

You think that the additional 500,000 votes Gore got over Bush in 2000 were from Republicans? I didnt even mention the votes Nader got.

What the fsck does that have to do with your other post. You said that the Dems don't need a plan. That's what they thought last Nov. too. "We don't need a plan, we'll just rail on about how bad the economy is." Worked well didn't it. If they don't have a coherent plan next year and think they just have to whine about the economy, they'll lose again. So far, and it's very early, not one of the 9 dwarves looks like they have a chance at all of beating Bush. Like I said it's early but the Dems need to get busy.