Trinity review

[Olikan]

well, it's in chinese but here it goes...

http://notebook.pconline.com.cn/testing/contrast/1205/2781947_2.html
http://notebook.pconline.com.cn/testing/contrast/1205/2781947_3.html
http://notebook.pconline.com.cn/testing/contrast/1205/2781947_4.html

btw...6 hours in Mobilemark of a standard 56 Whr battery is pretty amazing, even not beeing real-life likely

 

[sm625]

It is amazing how you can totally understand even the most butchered of translations when it comes to AMD :

"but this one has always been AMD's short board, despite a 23.1% increase, or was not very strong. Center of gravity and advantages of AMD's product has always been the graphics acceleration, and logical operations can be an amazing change, then the attractiveness of their products will certainly be greatly increased."

translation:

"BD is crap, if only they fixed BD they would have a good APU."

 

[Vesku]

Nice GPU jump and moderate CPU jump on same process. If the OEMs pass on the price difference between AMD and Intel chips then there should be some interesting notebooks available.

 

[borisvodofsky]

Nice GPU jump and moderate CPU jump on same process. If the OEMs pass on the price difference between AMD and Intel chips then there should be some interesting notebooks available.

i5 is still better with it's crummy graphics. anyone gaming on a laptop is not serious about gaming. :sneaky:

 

[Vesku]

Yep, I never find myself wanting to play something a bit more demanding than flash games on a notebook. Instead I, like any other regular person, compile code and run massive 100000+ record Excel sorts.

 

[pelov]

Yep, I never find myself wanting to play something a bit more demanding than flash games on a notebook. Instead I, like any other regular person, compile code and run massive 100000+ record Excel sorts.

You, sir, would love a $2000 Ivy Bridge ultrabook! It's so sexy that pretty ladies will mistake it for a Mac Book Pro and fling their panties off at the mere sight of it.

In all seriousness, those benchmarks look worthless. They're impressive, yes, but these are also the same benchmarks AMD provided in slides months ago when describing the performance improvements we'd see with Trinity. I'm still waiting for the gaming benchmarks and price

 

[Vesku]

Agreed on price, Llano launch was dimmed by OEMs pocketing a lot of the price difference. Also, not enough 13.3 and 14 inch offerings. Silly not providing a trimmer option than 15.6 for a cool running platform.

 

[Arachnotronic]

Good stuff. Hoping this'll juice up my AMD stock.

 

[frozentundra123456]

Agreed on price, Llano launch was dimmed by OEMs pocketing a lot of the price difference. Also, not enough 13.3 and 14 inch offerings. Silly not providing a trimmer option than 15.6 for a cool running platform.

Agreed on the desire for smaller form factors. I would like to see more 13 inch Llano(Trinity), and 10 or 11 inch netbooks with the E450. I have even seen the E450 in a full size laptop. Makes no sense to me. Price and quality are critical though. They have to get the price quite a bit lower than an ultrabook and not sacrifice too much quality.

 

[sm625]

Good stuff. Hoping this'll juice up my AMD stock.

lol I normally wouldnt touch AMD with a 12 foot pole, but the weekly $7 calls could make for an interesting trade this week. At 7 cents, they are cheap enough to almost work like lottery tickets.

edit: they are monthly options, they just expire this week so it sort of makes them weeklies.

 

[Puppies04]

i5 is still better with it's crummy graphics. anyone gaming on a laptop is not serious about gaming. :sneaky:

I doubt you take your desktop on train/car journeys or if you have to stop away from home with work from time to time. My laptop does me just fine for gaming in these circumstances and in my mind that makes me a lot more serious about gaming than you .

 

[happysmiles]

AMD and OEMs need to market Trinity like no tomorrow and hit that 500 dollar mark.

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

LOL at the people saying it would be a massive increase. You can't polish a turd.

An i3 or i5 and switchable AMD or NVIDIA GPU is still a better alternative. Yeah, it'll be a bit more expensive, but you get what you pay for. This is the same situation as the Core i5+GT 540M vs. A8 again.

 

[pelov]

LOL at the people saying it would be a massive increase. You can't polish a turd.

An i3 or i5 and switchable AMD or NVIDIA GPU is still a better alternative. Yeah, it'll be a bit more expensive, but you get what you pay for. This is the same situation as the Core i5+GT 540M vs. A8 again.

That'll depend on the price. The GT540m wasn't exactly a great mobile GPU and it added cost to the overall platform. If AMD lingers behind Intel in CPU performance by 10-15% but costs less and delivers better GPU performance and has great battery life then I'd much rather buy a Trinity laptop. If people are buying lappies with low end discrete cards for gaming then they'd probably be better off with Trinity considering you'd get better gaming performance for cheaper.

The four things I want to see with Trinity are

1 admirable CPU performance, roughly on par with an i3 SB. I really don't need any more power than that.

2 a great on-die GPU that trumps the HD4000 and the Llano.

3 Battery life exceeding 6 hours for web browsing.

4 A competitive price for a quality laptop with an optional 1080p screen. I don't care if it can't game at 1080p with 30+ FPS on BF3; I don't expect it to. I just want the option of replacing my desktop entirely

So far the first seems to be true. Even if they're a bit behind that would still suit me quite fine. The second one is almost certainly true and one that I don't think anyone ever doubted or still doubts: AMD can do on-die GPUs and GPUs in general. The latter two won't be answered until we see what the OEMs have for us and how much they feel it's worth. I know AMD initially planned to undercut Intel in the ultrabook space but by how much and whether the OEMs will play ball is another matter entirely.

 

[A5]

All I want is a cheap laptop that can play Civ 5 on medium settings in a pinch (work trips, holidays, etc). Hopefully Trinity can pull that off.

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

That'll depend on the price. The GT540m wasn't exactly a great mobile GPU and it added cost to the overall platform. If AMD lingers behind Intel in CPU performance by 10-15% but costs less and delivers better GPU performance and has great battery life then I'd much rather buy a Trinity laptop. If people are buying lappies with low end discrete cards for gaming then they'd probably be better off with Trinity considering you'd get better gaming performance for cheaper.

The four things I want to see with Trinity are

1 admirable CPU performance, roughly on par with an i3 SB. I really don't need any more power than that.

2 a great on-die GPU that trumps the HD4000 and the Llano.

3 Battery life exceeding 6 hours for web browsing.

4 A competitive price for a quality laptop with an optional 1080p screen. I don't care if it can't game at 1080p with 30+ FPS on BF3; I don't expect it to. I just want the option of replacing my desktop entirely

So far the first seems to be true. Even if they're a bit behind that would still suit me quite fine. The second one is almost certainly true and one that I don't think anyone ever doubted or still doubts: AMD can do on-die GPUs and GPUs in general. The latter two won't be answered until we see what the OEMs have for us and how much they feel it's worth. I know AMD initially planned to undercut Intel in the ultrabook space but by how much and whether the OEMs will play ball is another matter entirely.

Make that a CPU performance difference of 50% or more. CPU performance will be lower than a mobile Core i3.

Battery life depends on the capacity of the battery and on power usage of the laptop. Mobile Llano is quite good in this area, on par with Mobile Sandy Bridge. This shouldn't change with Trinity.

Gaming performance won't be anywhere near enough for BF3 at Medium settings at 30FPS. Not even close. AMD won't restrict manufacturers as to what resolution the screens featuring Trinity need to have as that would increase manufacturing costs. That translates to a higher cost to consumers, negating your want for lower costs. Also, good luck replacing a desktop with an APU, unless you want a slow CPU and an okay-ish IGP.

Here's AMD's main problem: most people don't care about gaming on their laptops. At all. Here's their second problem: Intel has better brand recognition. And their third problem: Intel has been very competitive when it comes to pricing lately.

Again, right now you can get a laptop with a Core i5 + GT540M for $600-650. You can get an A8 laptop for $100 less. For that $100, you lose a ludicrous amount of CPU performance and a decent amount of GPU performance. Speaking of which, it's funny you say the GT540M isn't that great when Trinity's IGP should be comparable in performance to it, if not slower.

You're expecting AMD to pull a rabbit out of a hat, and they can't because this is the real world and there's only so much you can do to improve a horrible CPU architecture and a mediocre IGP on the same process node. For the very few that want to do some gaming on the go, the HD 4000 can still play relatively graphically demanding games like DiRT 3 on Medium.

 

[pelov]

I agree they have to pull a rabbit out of a hat but if you consider the benchmarks they look a hell of a lot more impressive compared to Llano on the same node than does IB compared to SB on a smaller node with twice the amount of die space. It's not like IB is cheap either. Intel is pocketing the cash because they can despite producing more viable chips per wafer.

You can't compare the i5 + gt540m against the Llanos until we get the Trinity laptops out. Right now you're comparing AMD's current gen mobile APUs against an older gen Intel chip with a discrete card with IB already out. The Llanos will drop in price even further but they're already around $500.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16834215187
This will probably drop into mid/low $400 as soon as Trinity laptops hit the market so they've got another month.

Gaming performance won't be anywhere near enough for BF3 at Medium settings at 30FPS. Not even close. AMD won't restrict manufacturers as to what resolution the screens featuring Trinity need to have as that would increase manufacturing costs. That translates to a higher cost to consumers, negating your want for lower costs. Also, good luck replacing a desktop with an APU, unless you want a slow CPU and an okay-ish IGP.

The last CPU intensive task I ran was a Cinebench on all 4 cores. The other CPU intensive task I do on my desktop is BF3 and that game, as does nearly everything other than Blizzard titles, depends far more heavily on the GPU performance. Considering I game for maybe 2 hours a week for my uses I'd be far better off with a power sipping laptop that can drive 2 monitors concurrently (one for browsing and the other would be a movie) then I would be with a desktop.

You're expecting AMD to pull a rabbit out of a hat, and they can't because this is the real world and there's only so much you can do to improve a horrible CPU architecture and a mediocre IGP on the same process node. For the very few that want to do some gaming on the go, the HD 4000 can still play relatively graphically demanding games like DiRT 3 on Medium.

The CPU performance only needs to match the Llano for me. But if you really believe it's going to be a mediocre IGP then you need to step back into reality. The amount of retarded AMD hating you do is beyond fanboy and has seen you dive off the deep end. See here...

For the very few that want to do some gaming on the go, the HD 4000 can still play relatively graphically demanding games like DiRT 3 on Medium.

I'm talking about my specific uses. I could give 2 shits about what other people use their laptops/desktops for. But somehow you took a list of expectations that I'd like to see from Trinity and decided to apply your own backasswards logic based on complete fallacy and, yet again in that typical LOL_WUT_AXEL way, it seems you're only missing an "LOLWTFOMFGWTFBBQ" at the end of your post to really seal the deal.

I guess what I'm saying is, how in the fuck do you know what's better for me?

 

[leper84]

LOL at the people saying it would be a massive increase. You can't polish a turd.

An i3 or i5 and switchable AMD or NVIDIA GPU is still a better alternative. Yeah, it'll be a bit more expensive, but you get what you pay for. This is the same situation as the Core i5+GT 540M vs. A8 again.

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

Good luck getting anywhere with the personal attacks and insults.

Also, I know what most people want in a laptop: I work in retail. Do you?

I guess I'd have a better idea of what people want, and what I'm saying is clearly reflecting in sales. If any decent amount of people cared about gaming on the go then Intel wouldn't continue to have such a huge dominance in the laptop market, with market share at sky high numbers.

But hey, we can all keep touting what we personally want as if it was what everyone on the market wants. GPU performance isn't gonna make or break Trinity as most people aren't looking for gaming in a laptop, not to mention that for the very few that do care Intel's IGP is now also okay-ish and can play games semi-decently.

 

[pelov]

Good luck getting anywhere with the personal attacks and insults.

Your post history speaks volumes. Your attitude in those posts is even worse.

Also, I know what most people want in a laptop: I work in retail. Do you?

I guess I'd have a better idea of what people want, and what I'm saying is clearly reflecting in sales. If any decent amount of people cared about gaming on the go then Intel wouldn't continue to have such a huge dominance in the laptop market, with market share at sky high numbers.

How you got that from my original post I have no idea. Where my post was directly commenting on the things that I am looking for you somehow extracted what the general public wants. And then, to cement your complete retardation you did this:

I'm talking about my specific uses. I could give 2 shits about what other people use their laptops/desktops for.

I guess I'd have a better idea of what people want, and what I'm saying is clearly reflecting in sales. If any decent amount of people cared about gaming on the go then Intel wouldn't continue to have such a huge dominance in the laptop market, with market share at sky high numbers.

But hey, we can all keep touting what we personally want as if it was what everyone on the market wants. GPU performance isn't gonna make or break Trinity as most people aren't looking for gaming in a laptop, not to mention that for the very few that do care Intel's IGP is now also okay-ish and can play games semi-decently.

What I am pretty certain of, though, is that nobody cares about your opinion and you're pretty annoying.
Well, for insulting other members and for cussing, you get an infraction
Markfw900
Anandtech Moderator

And not speaking as a Mod, I don't care about your opinion.

 

[Ventanni]

Before I bought my Core i7+540m laptop, I was looking for strong performance and decent graphics with screen quality and battery life be darned. After I bought my Core i7+540m laptop, I realized that on a laptop, having great battery life and an excellent screen were more important than having the fastest CPU and graphics.

For what I use it for, which is to write papers, play the occasional game, and basically act as a glorified HTPC for my TV, the Core i7+540m is totally overkill. I really wish Trinity was available for purchase when I bought it. I'd have saved myself a coupla hundred bucks!

 

[Madpacket]

Good luck getting anywhere with the personal attacks and insults.

Also, I know what most people want in a laptop: I work in retail. Do you?

I guess I'd have a better idea of what people want, and what I'm saying is clearly reflecting in sales. If any decent amount of people cared about gaming on the go then Intel wouldn't continue to have such a huge dominance in the laptop market, with market share at sky high numbers.

But hey, we can all keep touting what we personally want as if it was what everyone on the market wants. GPU performance isn't gonna make or break Trinity as most people aren't looking for gaming in a laptop, not to mention that for the very few that do care Intel's IGP is now also okay-ish and can play games semi-decently.

If Intel didn't think gaming was very important they wouldn't have dedicated a ton of die space for the IGP on their 22nm CPUs. The fact is Trinity CPU Performance will be fast and power efficient enough to compete with IB. If yields are good enough and the price is right AMD will steal a sizable percentage of the back to school sales from Intel. This is my prediction.

Come back in November and blast me I'm wrong ;}

 

[RampantAndroid]

The fact is Trinity CPU Performance will be fast and power efficient enough to compete with IB.

You have any real data to back this up?

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

If Intel didn't think gaming was very important they wouldn't have dedicated a ton of die space for the IGP on their 22nm CPUs. The fact is Trinity CPU Performance will be fast and power efficient enough to compete with IB. If yields are good enough and the price is right AMD will steal a sizable percentage of the back to school sales from Intel. This is my prediction.

Come back in November and blast me I'm wrong ;}

Maybe because they currently can't make their CPUs any faster and improving the IGP wouldn't cause lower efficiency?

And I don't think I'd say a CPU with hugely lower performance is "competitive", especially since most people care more about CPU than GPU performance. It's the exact reason why Intel CPUs are by far more popular than AMD's and the reason why Intel's bad to horrible IGP performance in the past didn't stop them from selling a huge amount of product.

And it's already been proven that the "IGP matters a lot" argument is wrong. Look at Sandy Bridge vs. Llano. Did Llano make Sandy Bridge any less popular? No, right? Then why would that change with Ivy Bridge, which still has excellent CPU performance and now an okay-ish IGP? Less of a reason for the very few people that care about gaming performance to buy AMD anyway, especially since Intel's brand is more recognized and they're very competitive in pricing.

Get Bobcat's engineering team to design and TSMC to manufacture a mainstream APU for AMD and then you'll see a truly great product.

As it stands, AMD's only true great products come out of their GPU division.

 

[Olikan]

Make that a CPU performance difference of 50% or more. CPU performance will be lower than a mobile Core i3.

well, based on those benches, trinity is far more powerfull on cpu than llano... it's closer to an mobile i5 2c\4t, while llano baraly beat 2c\2t...

i have to say this......ST performance is 40% faster, making the ipc of piledriver better llano (that is better than ph2).....that is actually to good to be true, that i think that it's fake