Travel industry bailout

[IronWing]

Politicians are beholden to corporate interests, more so than individual people needing help. It also doesn't help that courts regularly rule in favour of corporations.

Fundamental changes to the political and judiciary system are required to fix the issues. Getting money ("donations") out of politics would be a good start.

We have legal system instead of a justice system.

 

[ElFenix]

cruise operators: ships aren't built here, not flagged here, not crewed here. fuck em.
airlines: get consumer protections and the most senior debt status, maybe a board seat.
boeing: everyone responsible for the max debacle in prison for homicide

 

[IronWing]

Paging @Rubycon for an update!

 

[ch33zw1z]

Trump: 'Airlines would be No. 1' for coronavirus bailout

The president said airlines went from having their best year to empty planes – and other travel businesses may be in line for federal help, as well.

www.usatoday.com

Yup - Americans just got fucked.. again.

Too big to fail gets smaller with each cash grab

 

[shortylickens]

December 9, 2008

Republicans criticize auto bailout

Lawmakers opened debate on Wednesday on legislation to bail out U.S. auto companies while Senate Republicans tore into the plan to force Detroit to restructure or fail, raising uncertainty about its prospects.

www.reuters.com

So, yeah, theres that.

 

[ElFenix]

kudlow floating taking a capital stake not a loan.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1240084765228912651

 

[nakedfrog]

Fuck the cruise industry.

something like this

Mad magazine from the 70s, I'd guess?

 

[Thump553]

If this goes 18 months (as per a recent leaked fed report) basically every sector of the economy not involved in health care is going to tank, and tank big.
I can think of absolutely no reason why the cruise industry should get a bailout. After the crash if our society wants them new or restructured cruise companies can spring up.

My view on any massive federal bailout is that it should be directed to the country as a whole, except exclude Wall Street which is by definition a risk investment. Any money going to corporations should have a whole lot of strings attached-no executive bonuses or pay increases until the debt is paid back, the funds should be used to bring factories back from overseas, etc.

 

[shortylickens]

Fuck the cruise industry.

Mad magazine from the 70s, I'd guess?

Yes, and I saw that piece MANY times in the 80's. For a while there Mad magazine recycled old content regularly. The only new articles were on movies. And the back cover fold-up.

 

[chowderhead]

Or as I saw earlier from some twatter.
People are expected to keep a 3-6 month emergency fund but businesses aren’t?

This!
People also sell their possessions and borrow money when they are in economic trouble.
These companies should have horded cash like Berkshire Hathaway does. Now, they should take out loans which are close to 0% interest using their planes and boats as collateral. If they don't have any assets, they should go bankrupt.
No bailouts for these companies that nickel and dime the consumers and jacked up baggage fees, etc

 

[TheVrolok]

My view on any massive federal bailout is that it should be directed to the country as a whole, except exclude Wall Street which is by definition a risk investment. Any money going to corporations should have a whole lot of strings attached-no executive bonuses or pay increases until the debt is paid back, the funds should be used to bring factories back from overseas, etc.

Maybe if Biden gets elected, maybe. Trump would never hold American heroes (CEOs) accountable.

 

[ch33zw1z]

something like this

that last one, kid just has affluenza

 

[Thump553]

Maybe if Biden gets elected, maybe. Trump would never hold American heroes (CEOs) accountable.

That's a given. If Trump gets reelected, his first priority will be looting the country to line his pockets. You can bet 100 to 1 that the upcoming GOP Trillion Dollar Bill will have some real fine Easter eggs demanded by Trump for his personal plans.

 

[Bitek]

Maybe if Biden gets elected, maybe. Trump would never hold American heroes (CEOs) accountable.

It's amazing how many trillions these tea party Republicans are ready to burn on busted corporations and CEOs, or try to give a F about regular folks

Sen. Ron Johnson: We Shouldn’t Shut Down Economy Just Cause Up to 3.4% of Population Could Die

 

[brycejones]

It's amazing how many trillions these tea party Republicans are ready to burn on busted corporations and CEOs, or try to give a F about regular folks

Sen. Ron Johnson: We Shouldn’t Shut Down Economy Just Cause Up to 3.4% of Population Could Die

The campaign ads against him in 2022 should just be pictures of grand parents who died and coffins.

 

[shortylickens]

Donald should be banned from declaring a war or calling anything a war.
He's a draft dodger and incredibly ignorant even for a civilian. He does not know what war is and only uses the term to get his ignorant draft-dodging cowardly voter base spun up.

 

[Fenixgoon]

Donald should be banned from declaring a war or calling anything a war.
He's a draft dodger and incredibly ignorant even for a civilian. He does not know what war is and only uses the term to get his ignorant draft-dodging cowardly voter base spun up.

Treebeard 2020?

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

I heard a great point on MSNBC regarding bailing out Airlines and Cruise Ships

Problem with most of the travel industry is it’s not essential business (excluding air)
They previously received a huge bailout and nearly all used that money for stock buybacks which didn’t trickle down to workers
Cruise ship company’s pay close to zero tax since all are based outside the US, plus their ships tend to be docked outside the US to avoid taxes
Most of the hospitality industry pays little to no tax
They received an enormous tax break recently and appear to have pissed thru the money.

Maybe this industry is dead and needs to come back in a new form that will allow them to survive a down turn.

Where do you get off saying that these companies pay little in taxes?

Across the board, countries have realized that having companies pay taxes via the old "income tax" model is overall a stupid way to go. It's cumbersome, a pain in the ass to audit, and in general isn't a smart way to go about it since there will always be legal loopholes.

The answer that has been widely accepted as the answer to that has been indrect taxes in the form of taxing the consumer. Every modern western country you can lookup for the last 30 years have been slashing corporate income taxes, and propping up consumer VAT.

Ultimately whomever "pays" the tax means nothing, because the tax is reflected in the pricing of everything.


So yes - cruises do generate taxes. Yes, they do generate port fees, etc...

Airlines do pay taxes and fees as well.

Hotels DEFINITELY pay tons of taxes and fees as well.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

It's amazing how many trillions these tea party Republicans are ready to burn on busted corporations and CEOs, or try to give a F about regular folks

Sen. Ron Johnson: We Shouldn’t Shut Down Economy Just Cause Up to 3.4% of Population Could Die

Well, it's easy to say that right now - but how big do you think unemployment will be when this is all said and done months (maybe years?) from now?

Direct death counts from the virus aren't the only ones that should be considered....

 

[Exterous]

The only way we should be giving something like airlines bailout money is if we secure some consumer protections in exchange, especially considering:

"Instead, American blew most of its cash on a stock buyback spree. From 2014 to 2020, in an attempt to increase its earnings per share, American spent more than $15 billion buying back its own stock. It managed, despite the risk of the proverbial rainy day, to shrink its cash reserves. "

It's an Op-Ed, but still contains some useful tidbits: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/16/opinion/airlines-bailout.html

Aside from American Airlines (who's dumpster fire was already well underway) I do have some sympathy for a market sector who is basically going to completely lose it's entire massive revenue stream in a few weeks AND has to give out millions in refunds. And a decent argument can be made that air service is an important part of the economy (In addition to employing more than 600,000 employees) so we'll need at least a few still around when they can start flying again. That said I do think regulators let them get 'too big to fail' with mergers and I am in favor of strings attached to the assistance they get

 

[Fenixgoon]

Where do you get off saying that these companies pay little in taxes?

Across the board, countries have realized that having companies pay taxes via the old "income tax" model is overall a stupid way to go. It's cumbersome, a pain in the ass to audit, and in general isn't a smart way to go about it since there will always be legal loopholes.

The answer that has been widely accepted as the answer to that has been indrect taxes in the form of taxing the consumer. Every modern western country you can lookup for the last 30 years have been slashing corporate income taxes, and propping up consumer VAT.

Ultimately whomever "pays" the tax means nothing, because the tax is reflected in the pricing of everything.


So yes - cruises do generate taxes. Yes, they do generate port fees, etc...

Airlines do pay taxes and fees as well.

Hotels DEFINITELY pay tons of taxes and fees as well.

people paying taxes means people have less money to live, especially the poor. Consumer taxes are generally regressive because the rich don't care about the cost of essentials while, for everyone else, it absolutely matters. Not to say consumer taxes shouldn't exist, but increasing them shifts the burden on to people who are most sensitive to price - the middle class and working poor.

Corporations on the other hand are not people. Well, except for Citizens United apparently .
They don't eat food to live. They don't require healthcare of any kind. They don't breath air, drink water, or need housing to protect them from the elements.

 

[Bitek]

Donald should be banned from declaring a war or calling anything a war.
He's a draft dodger and incredibly ignorant even for a civilian. He does not know what war is and only uses the term to get his ignorant draft-dodging cowardly voter base spun up.

How long until he gets the sniffles and awards himself the purple heart?

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Aside from American Airlines (who's dumpster fire was already well underway) I do have some sympathy for a market sector who is basically going to completely lose it's entire massive revenue stream in a few weeks AND has to give out millions in refunds. And a decent argument can be made that air service is an important part of the economy (In addition to employing more than 600,000 employees) so we'll need at least a few still around when they can start flying again. That said I do think regulators let them get 'too big to fail' with mergers and I am in favor of strings attached to the assistance they get

I agree, but that's also why I feel that they should be treated more like a public utility. There isn't a single person that can say "Yeah, I love how the airlines have made things the seats and bathrooms smaller. I also love the baggage fees!". I don't think it's asking anything excessive to have a rules in place dictated by the people if they expect the people to bail them out because they are a necessary utility. If we had ACTUAL free-market capitalism, these airlines simply wouldn't exist because no one would choose to fly with them. Instead, were stuck with a federally defined oligopoly of airlines where you have zero choice in the matter.

The same (sadly) goes for hotels. If business people aren't traveling (just like with airlines) then hotels will be failing.

 

[Bitek]

Well, it's easy to say that right now - but how big do you think unemployment will be when this is all said and done months (maybe years?) from now?

Direct death counts from the virus aren't the only ones that should be considered....

So you are saying we're lucky that opposition Democrats aren't the short sighted, selfish, unpatriotic assholes that Tea Partiers were in 2009?

I completely agree.

 

[ch33zw1z]

So you are saying we're lucky that opposition Democrats aren't the short sighted, selfish, unpatriotic assholes that Tea Partiers were in 2009?

I completely agree.

Teahadists are still in congress also.