Transwoman hacked to death in Russia

[Sonikku]

https://mic.com/articles/158205/tra...-hacked-to-death-after-her-wedding#.a6InpswMN

Transgender Muslim woman Raina Aliev was killed in Russia just days after marrying her husband, Viktor, Yahoo News reported. The complete circumstances of her death are unknown, but Aliev's body was hacked into pieces and left virtually unrecognizable.

 

[Jaskalas]

We have our own murders. Question is, what sets this apart?
Do they have authorities that consider this a crime, do they intend to find and imprison those responsible? It could be quite pedestrian at this point.

 

[MrSquished]

welcome to Trump's America

 

[jman19]

Disgusting.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

welcome to Trump's America

I can't tell how many levels of irony you're on right now.

 

[Exophase]

This article has a bit more information: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/transgender-woman-hacked-death-days-9168649

Her own father called for her murder on TV, even saying he'd do it himself. Which means some TV station actually aired this. Nothing can be said for sure right now given that we don't know the circumstances for her murder, but it seems likely that it only happened because of the father's demands for honor killing.

 

[mikeymikec]

This article has a bit more information: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/transgender-woman-hacked-death-days-9168649

Her own father called for her murder on TV, even saying he'd do it himself. Which means some TV station actually aired this. Nothing can be said for sure right now given that we don't know the circumstances for her murder, but it seems likely that it only happened because of the father's demands for honor killing.

It also means that the local police force didn't think it would be a valid use of their time to ensure the law is upheld.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Does Russian law prohibit hate speech being broadcast on television?

Also, lmao @ people blaming the news stations and police for not preventing this death when the root is radical Islam. Did it take a news broadcast for someone to perform an honor killing on Theo van Gogh?

 

[mikeymikec]

Also, lmao @ people blaming the news stations and police for not preventing this death when the root is radical Islam.

Really?

If someone called for my death on the radio, I would expect the local police to take an interest. It doesn't matter whether the caller called for my death because I'm male, bald, heterosexual, not following a particular religion, because I eat meat or whatever other reason.

Furthermore, if someone called for your death on the radio and you were killed, I'm pretty sure that if your local police force did nothing whatsoever about it, your family and friends would (with justification IMO) be asking a lot of angry questions about why the police decided not to do their jobs on this occasion.

I suspect the reason why the Russian police apparently did little to stop this is that non-heterosexuals are being specifically targeted by the government with restrictive laws in a similar way that Jews were under the Nazi regime to begin with.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Did you even read the story? The woman was a Chechen that escaped an oppressive Muslim society, moved northwards to legally marry an ethnic Russian guy, and then was likely murdered by one of her own. I won't pretend that Russia has a great human rights record, Putin certainly doesn't like gays very much, but it sure beats much of the Muslim world.

What exactly do you expect police to do, provide her with 24/7 protection? George Zimmerman would be one very obvious guy that received many threats on his life, but once his trial was over so was his protection. And then you have to consider that this is Russia, basically a Slavic Africa where AIDS and murder run wild. Police can only do so much.

Further (only Exophase has explicitly supported this so maybe you don't), what are the implications of restricting what a news station is allowed to report on the basis of its violent content? If a terrorist group threatens American lives, should that not be reported on? If someone starts talking about "Second Amendment solutions" wrt politicians, what then? The reasonable course of action would seem to be that when someone makes a threat, you investigate and press charges against someone performing a criminal act. You don't blame the fucking news stations and police.

 

[mikeymikec]

Did you even read the story? The woman was a Chechen that escaped an oppressive Muslim society, moved northwards to legally marry an ethnic Russian guy, and then was likely murdered by one of her own. I won't pretend that Russia has a great human rights record, Putin certainly doesn't like gays very much, but it sure beats much of the Muslim world.

What exactly do you expect police to do, provide her with 24/7 protection? George Zimmerman would be one very obvious guy that received many threats on his life, but once his trial was over so was his protection.

And? I'd put down a hefty bet that if a Muslim extremist managed to get a death threat against George Zimmerman's life on American radio, the police would feel obligated to do something to prevent it (though I agree that they would not feel obligated to keep him under 24/7 protection for the rest of his life).

Further (only Exophase has explicitly supported this so maybe you don't), what are the implications of restricting what a news station is allowed to report on the basis of its violent content? If a terrorist group threatens American lives, should that not be reported on? If someone starts talking about "Second Amendment solutions" wrt politicians, what then? The reasonable course of action would seem to be that when someone makes a threat, you investigate and press charges against someone performing a criminal act. You don't blame the fucking news stations and police.

From what I understand of US law, it's illegal under US free speech laws to advocate the death of a particular person in a specific and immediate manner, so I think it's reasonable to assume that broadcasters would be under similar obligations: My guess is that if this (OP story) happened on American soil, broadcasters would be asked not to broadcast either the threat or the event that the threat occurred until the authorities have taken whatever immediate action they deem fit to counteract it. The event may still be 'current' at the point of broadcasting the news, but by that time the woman would have what the authorities consider to be sufficient protection from the threat.

I've read the story prior to it being posted here.

And then you have to consider that this is Russia, basically a Slavic Africa where AIDS and murder run wild. Police can only do so much.

citation? I'm not sure what AIDS has to do with the price of fish, but I found this with a bit of googling:

http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Russia/United-States/Crime

 

[HamburgerBoy]

I'll concede the point wrt specific threats against individuals being quoted or aired on public radio/television. Hard to think of examples that don't involve prominent politicians, so yeah whether it's specifically illegal or a matter of general policy you're probably right. I can't find a video of the broadcast itself; I'm assuming the local news station didn't just hand the father a mike and podium to deliver a spiel, but in that case I could especially agree it wouldn't happen here, if only because it would probably open them up to personal liability. Regardless, I think it's questionable the extent to which the news report caused this. According to the Mirror link, she was hated by many in that community because it was seen as going against Islam. In an age of the internet, this kind of info is going to pass easier than ever, and if this is a close-knit community, even that isn't necessary. The end result if that if you do something that makes Muslims hate you in a region of Muslims, you can expect to be killed.

Your link shows that Russia has a 3-fold higher rate of murder. That's a pretty big difference, and leaves less room to follow lesser crimes, which is why less developed nations will often report lower rates of sexual assault and other non-homicide violent crimes than more developed ones. A person would probably have to be part of the ruling class to receive even the protection that an average American would, and that's still far from sufficient if people really want to kill you.

 

[mikeymikec]

Your link shows that Russia has a 3-fold higher rate of murder. That's a pretty big difference, and leaves less room to follow lesser crimes, which is why less developed nations will often report lower rates of sexual assault and other non-homicide violent crimes than more developed ones. A person would probably have to be part of the ruling class to receive even the protection that an average American would, and that's still far from sufficient if people really want to kill you.

I posted that link in response to your apparent suggestion that Russian police have too much to do to be able to protect someone who has had their life threatened, because the stats in that link suggested to me that while country X may have higher stats on a particular point than country Y, there were similar stats showing the reverse as well, and overall nothing that would suggest to me to be stats that supported your apparent suggestion.

 

[theeedude]

This is Russia under Putin, whom Trump admires.

 

[Jaskalas]

This is Russia under Putin, whom Trump admires.

Article is indicating this story has more to do with Islamic honor killings than Russia.

 

[Commodus]

Article is indicating this story has more to do with Islamic honor killings than Russia.

It does, but Russia is complicit in it. This is a country where the government treats LGBT people as a lower form of life. It may not necessarily have encouraged the murderer, but it wasn't exactly in a rush to stop the murder, either.

 

[Blue_Max]

Article is indicating this story has more to do with Islamic honor killings than Russia.

Yeah, I think the OP was going for the spin of "evil russians hate our LGTB friends" but backfired since the fault lay 99% in the lap of their islamic "allies" just doing what Mo told them to do. *shrug*

Oops?

 

[Vic]

Some people just don't get it. This incident occurred because the Russian government denied equal protection of the laws to someone because they were LGBT. The solution to this injustice is NOT to extend this inequality to people because of their religious faith as well.
The US does not have this problem because we do have equal protection of the laws. If someone demanded an honor killing here, they would be prosecuted, regardless of their religious beliefs or the victim's sexual orientation.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Who suggested extending this to people based on religious faith? There are Islamic parts of Russia that are reasonably peaceful and separate from Islamic violence. Chechnya and its transplants are not among them.

You haven't demonstrated how to protect this person. Prosecute the father, great, but did the father actually kill her? It was probably a family member, a friend of the family, or any Joe Islamanov that happened to be made aware that an infidel was living among them. It's hard to find decent statistics on anti-LGBT crime in Russia, but at least a victimization survey by Harvard puts rates of assault and harassment similar to those found in America. Putin is certainly making things worse these days, but if there is a significant body of the population that believes in honor killings because of their religion, laws to protect LGBT minorities aren't going to do much.