Transmission fluid and filter change taking far less than the required amount...

[mvbighead]

Just recently performed a transmission fluid and filter change on a 2000 Silverado with a 4L60 transmission. Dropped the pan, and let it drain over night. Installed new filter, gasket, and re-installed the pan. Added fluid based on the Haynes manual (and several other sites) suggested fluid and filter change recommending 5 quarts. I first added 4 qts, let the engine run several minutes, checked and the fluid registered low. Added the additional quart, and checked, and the fluid level read fine.

Test drove the car, and experienced a high pitched whine in 1st and 2nd, though shifting seemed normal otherwise. Parked the truck for the night, and checked the fluid level in the morning. It was literally 1.5 to 2 inches above the full hot line (when cold). WTF?

At the advice of other forums, I grabbed some poly tubing and pumped the extra fluid out of the dipstick/fill hole. After several iterations of doing this, I've removed approximately 2.5 quarts of fluid. That means, of the 5 quarts recommended, I somehow am listed at full despite only adding half the suggested amount.

At this point, I am concerned that fluid may not be pumping out of the reservoir (if that's possible), and that perhaps the fluid is not moving through the radiator, etc. as it should be to be cooled. Thus far, my test drives have been less than 5 miles, but I am looking at a 60 mile round trip commute tomorrow to pick up some furniture. I don't want to drive this thing if I am going to risk killing the transmission.

My only guess is the new trans fluid filter is not drawing in fluid, but that's all I got.

An easy way to check, I suppose, is to remove the cooler line from the upper radiator connection and run the engine for a few seconds to see if it flows through the tube. Or, more simply, perhaps just check the temp of the transcooler lines... if the line coming from the radiator is cooler than the line coming from the trans, then fluid is flowing through the radiator.

TLDNR:
Performed trans filter / fluid change.
Haynes manual calls for 5 qts after dropping the pan.
Mine took 2.5 quarts (removed 2.5 after checking the following day that it was way over filled)
The question - How is it possible that I am "full" with only 2.5 quarts when the manual and other forums suggest the correct amount is 5 quarts?

Thanks in advance for anything you can contribute on the matter.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

Generally there is a lot of fluid left in the torque converter, trans cooler, and associated lines. There's a big difference in quantity between a 'drain' (~5qts) and a 'flush' (~10qts)

My guess is that you drained like 3qts, then added 5. Personally, I would either disconnect the trans cooler lines and do a redneck flush (discharge line in bucket, intake line in new fluid) or just pay a trusted shop to do a full flush with a machine.

Also some autos have odd procedures for when you do a drain to make sure the fluid is circulating everywhere.. Manually changing it through certain gears etc.

Anytime you do a trans fluid change it's a good idea to measure how much fluid comes out so you have some baseline for what to add.

 

[1prophet]

It takes about 4.5 qts with the deep pan 4l60e (assumes no leaks or previous under or over fills) and you have to go thru all the gears from park back to park slowly while the engine is idling and then check it with engine idling in park, should be in the cold range when cold and hot range when hot.


The seal (where the filter tube goes in) has to be tight and not damaged and filter should snap in place or else it can suck in air.

 

[BUTCH1]

IIRC the tranny has to be close to operating temp for an accurate level check, at least your GM has a dipstick, mine (and a lot of other GM tranny's, don"t)

 

[mvbighead]

Generally there is a lot of fluid left in the torque converter, trans cooler, and associated lines. There's a big difference in quantity between a 'drain' (~5qts) and a 'flush' (~10qts)

My guess is that you drained like 3qts, then added 5. Personally, I would either disconnect the trans cooler lines and do a redneck flush (discharge line in bucket, intake line in new fluid) or just pay a trusted shop to do a full flush with a machine.

Also some autos have odd procedures for when you do a drain to make sure the fluid is circulating everywhere.. Manually changing it through certain gears etc.

Anytime you do a trans fluid change it's a good idea to measure how much fluid comes out so you have some baseline for what to add.

And the manual does indicate that it'd be 11 qts bone dry, or 5 for a filter and fluid change.

I guess I am just concerned that it took sooooo little compared to what was specified.

As for when to check the fluid, I've checked under hot and cold conditions. At this point, it reads correctly for hot and cold. I did go through the procedure of shifting through all the gears, as that was specified in a few place, and I figure it was a safe bet with the car stopped to get fluid through the gears.

Am still considering the redneck flush, (actually bought a bucket last night to catch the fluid). I just don't have the means to connect the hose to the radiator. I've read there is a fitting you need to buy, but they don't seem to specify a model number. Scratch that, just checked again, then google the part number and added the word fitting and... voila:
http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/d....oap?ck=Search_N0940_-1_-1&pt=N0940&ppt=C0377

Well, I'll head out there when they open and see if they have one, and then proceed with the flush.

 

[HarryLui]

If the fluid is at good level when the transmission is cold, it'll be over fill when it is warm.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

Fwiw, I dont know for sure that the redneck flush is safe for your transmission. I recommend researching it first to verify.

Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express

 

[mvbighead]

Fwiw, I dont know for sure that the redneck flush is safe for your transmission. I recommend researching it first to verify.

Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express

The rumor is that the only risk you run is burning up the pump if you let it run too long when dry. Otherwise, the comments are pretty positive on the before and after.

However, I can't get the cooler line removed. I feel like I am going to break the radiator before I get the bolt to move. At this point, I figure I should just give up and let the dealer deal with it before something becomes a major problem. Hell, who knows, maybe it already is.

 

[mvbighead]

If the fluid is at good level when the transmission is cold, it'll be over fill when it is warm.

I'm confused here. There's a cold line and hot line. At this point, it meets both given the temperature condition, although it required far less fluid than it should.

As it was, on the first fill, with the suggested 5 qts, the day after was 1.5 to 2 inches over the hot line, and this was when cold. Hot would've been even worse.

 

[me4get]

I'm confused here. There's a cold line and hot line. At this point, it meets both given the temperature condition, although it required far less fluid than it should.

As it was, on the first fill, with the suggested 5 qts, the day after was 1.5 to 2 inches over the hot line, and this was when cold. Hot would've been even worse.

Never check without the engine running ( some will read overfull when cold ). The correct way is engine running transmission in park.

 

[Gibson486]

On my mazda 3, you have to attach it to the tranny cooler/pump to get all the fluid out in addition to what is in the pan. If you do not, all that gets out is the stuff that is in the pan, which is about 1/3 or so of the total fluid.

The way you do it, you have to empty and fill 3 times or so. I think it is called "drain and refill".

 

[SpatiallyAware]

The rumor is that the only risk you run is burning up the pump if you let it run too long when dry. Otherwise, the comments are pretty positive on the before and after.

However, I can't get the cooler line removed. I feel like I am going to break the radiator before I get the bolt to move. At this point, I figure I should just give up and let the dealer deal with it before something becomes a major problem. Hell, who knows, maybe it already is.

Respectfully; you kind of worry me overall with automotive stuff. A transmission is nothing to joke around with, you need to admit your limits IMO, and it sounds like you're about at that point.

There are specific 'line wrenches' for this kind of job. It may take a squirt of pb blaster, but in my experience they should pop loose. You need to have a wrench on the trans cooler side and the line side to make sure there's no odd stress on the trans cooler.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

I'm confused here. There's a cold line and hot line. At this point, it meets both given the temperature condition, although it required far less fluid than it should.

As it was, on the first fill, with the suggested 5 qts, the day after was 1.5 to 2 inches over the hot line, and this was when cold. Hot would've been even worse.

Yeah but MV; you have no idea how much drained out. For all you know, only 3qts came out when you removed the pan. You then filled i up with 5qts.

If the dipstick reads correctly after shifting through the gears manually a few times, then drive a few times, then do the shift through gears procedure....... you should be fine. But, you still only replaced like 20% of the fluid in the trans.

 

[Gibson486]

Yeah but MV; you have no idea how much drained out. For all you know, only 3qts came out when you removed the pan. You then filled i up with 5qts.

If the dipstick reads correctly after shifting through the gears manually a few times, then drive a few times, then do the shift through gears procedure....... you should be fine. But, you still only replaced like 20% of the fluid in the trans.

that is why you measure how much the pan holds and correlate it to a measurement of how much your make shift catching pan catches, or simply make marks in the pan (or whatever you are using) so you can keep track. That way, you simply put in what you take out. If you have no idea how much is in the tranny now, then over fill it on purpose, then drain it slowly until the dip stick reads right. It's going to be a slow procedure, though, because you have to turn the car on to get the fluid in the pan so you can drain it.

 

[Gibson486]

Respectfully; you kind of worry me overall with automotive stuff. A transmission is nothing to joke around with, you need to admit your limits IMO, and it sounds like you're about at that point.

There are specific 'line wrenches' for this kind of job. It may take a squirt of pb blaster, but in my experience they should pop loose. You need to have a wrench on the trans cooler side and the line side to make sure there's no odd stress on the trans cooler.

These are wonders....they also help when you do brakes jobs that are related to removing a brake line.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

that is why you measure how much the pan holds and correlate it to a measurement of how much your make shift catching pan catches, or simply make marks in the pan (or whatever you are using) so you can keep track. That way, you simply put in what you take out. If you have no idea how much is in the tranny now, then over fill it on purpose, then drain it slowly until the dip stick reads right. It's going to be a slow procedure, though, because you have to turn the car on to get the fluid in the pan so you can drain it.

Yeah.. I said that in the second post. Any time you mess with auto trans fluid you need to measure how much fluid comes out to prevent this very situation. I like to use the 5qt jugs.. Pour the drain pain into them to measure, then pour that into my ~10 gallon recycle container.

 

[mvbighead]

Respectfully; you kind of worry me overall with automotive stuff. A transmission is nothing to joke around with, you need to admit your limits IMO, and it sounds like you're about at that point.

There are specific 'line wrenches' for this kind of job. It may take a squirt of pb blaster, but in my experience they should pop loose. You need to have a wrench on the trans cooler side and the line side to make sure there's no odd stress on the trans cooler.

I considered it a fluid and filter, somewhat similar to an oil change, though dropping the pan was necessary (both to get to the filter, and coupled with the fact that GM's drain bolt was torqued EXTREMELY tight). As I had swapped diff fluid on the jeep, I didn't figure dropping the pan was a big deal. Granted, there is apparently a shift linkage bracket that makes the pan difficult to remove. Unfortunately, in my fighting to get the pan down, I had slid the catch pan out of the way, and spilled a bit of fluid. Any amount of measuring, from that point, would have been inaccurate, though I did start with an empty pan and could've measured had I not missed.

As far as scaring you, I am sure this points back to the other thread regarding AC. As I said about 100 times in that thread, I was recalling a specific instance with my Impala. I happened to get the cold vs. hot backwards, but that was how I recalled it. I simply recall specifically that my coolant was low (with no indication on the dash), and a complete difference in temperature at stoplights. I just got it backwards. I was simply assuming that the vehicle did something to trigger that. I didn't really believe that it was tied to the AC system, as it wasn't as if it just caused the temp to slightly stray in the other direction because the radiator was getting warmer; it was a complete shift in temperature as if the system was turned off and the fan just blew in air from the outside (which, in the winter, was cold (unheated) air). Again, I got that one backwards when recalling the experience. My only reason for fighting the point was due to the crude nature of the response I received (and being a text based message, perhaps I read a certain tone that didn't exist, but I don't think that was the case). I don't like being wrong, especially when someone feels the need to be so blunt about it. I am courteous with my responses, I see no reason why someone else shouldn't be. I've moved on from that discussion, and figure that I just need to ignore those types of responses, rather than engage in an argument where I was well aware I was outmatched.

As for the line wrenches, I did actually see those on the post I was referencing, but it was not named as such there. I had even attempted to look for them, but wasn't sure what to call them (Truth be told, I edited my post as I had referred to them as "line of wrenches" and not "line wrenches", but the fact is, I just learned something new.). I am a newb mechanic, and I have mentioned that several times throughout my posts here (though maybe not this thread). I am simply trying to be more diligent about my automotive maintenance and tackle the things I can myself. Two years ago I couldn't have said that I:

1) Changed car oil <- sad I know, but my dad wasn't much for doing this task himself, nor anything else.
2) Fix a blend door problem in a Jeep as well as replace a blower motor transistor (kinda necessary when it's really cold outside)
3) Replaced a power window regulator in a Jeep
4) Replaced a starter in a Jeep
5) Replaced a brake booster in a Jeep
6) Changed brake, pads, and rotors
7) Replaced tie rod ends in a Jeep and a Silverado
8) The list goes on...

All of those things were outside of my abilities 2 years ago. But instead of just being the guy that takes everything to the mechanic, I wanted to be better about knowing what I could do, and how I could learn in the process. If I don't try to do something, I won't learn how to do it. While I will likely never be as educated as most in the matter, if I don't try, I certainly won't be.

Perhaps my little rant is unnecessary, I just figure that after that last thread, everyone wants to think of my as the guy who doesn't know jack crap about cars. And for the most part, everyone in these threads is miles ahead of me. I am just trying to close some of the gap, and take care of my cars as much as I can, by myself. There are definitely jobs that I leave to my mechanic, but I look them up, research them, and see if they fall outside of my ability. If I don't feel that it looks to hard, I try to give it a whirl.

Back to the point of the thread, I may wind up taking the truck over to a trusted place that does trans fluid flushes (dad was in the used car business a while back in the day, and when I paying for oil changes, I mostly used this place). I've had them done on vehicles in the past without issue, and hopefully this will be the same.

 

[mvbighead]

Yeah but MV; you have no idea how much drained out. For all you know, only 3qts came out when you removed the pan. You then filled i up with 5qts.

If the dipstick reads correctly after shifting through the gears manually a few times, then drive a few times, then do the shift through gears procedure....... you should be fine. But, you still only replaced like 20% of the fluid in the trans.

As for this point, I was aware of that as well. My thought was that by replacing less than 50% of the fluid, I could get a slight change in the fluid before doing a full fluid replacement. Basically thinking that there are hundreds of stories out there of people who never service their transmissions, and the minute they do, poop hits the fan. I was thinking that if I could just get some partial good fresh fluid in there, run it a while, and then do another replacement at my next OCI.

Basically, instead of replacing heavily used fluid with good fluid, I would gradually remove old fluid and add clean fluid over a few OCIs, and not make a sudden change that might screw up the transmission. This ideal was only based on those horror stories I've read. I figured, if nothing else, over the next few oil changes, my transmission fluid would get cleaner by each stage, and eventually clean out the system.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

No worries, and I'm not dogging on you from the other thread.

Like you know, you can do almost anything mechanical with basic skills, time, and patience.

FWIW I would do a complete fluid change.. Either redneck flush or take it to someone with a machine. Sounds like you're perfectly capable of doing it yourself, just be really careful with those hydraulic lines.. It's easy to turn a $150 fluid change into a $500+ trans cooler replacement. :thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

[mvbighead]

No worries, and I'm not dogging on you from the other thread.

Like you know, you can do almost anything mechanical with basic skills, time, and patience.

FWIW I would do a complete fluid change.. Either redneck flush or take it to someone with a machine. Sounds like you're perfectly capable of doing it yourself, just be really careful with those hydraulic lines.. It's easy to turn a $150 fluid change into a $500+ trans cooler replacement. :thumbsup::thumbsup:

Yeah, I may invest in some of those wrenches, as I am sure they'll come in handy over time. Though, as the bolt seems to be really, really stuck as it is, I'll probably just take it somewhere and let them do it.