Transmission and radiator services? Other maintanence?

[TallBill]

My 2001 Crown Victoria just went over 106,000 miles and I'm curious what type of routine maintanence is necessary.

I just got my oil changed at Jiffy Lube and they were trying to sell me a radiator service as well as a transmission service. I forget how much the coolant drain/fill was but the transmission fluid drain/fill was $99.99.

I'm not extremely car smart so dont want to do any of the work myself. Also, how good are oil filters really good for?

About the only thing I feel confident changing myself right now is the air filter, which I guess I should probably go to advanced auto parts and see how much they are.

Also, I've read that timing belts should be replaced. And spark plugs and spark plug wires.. I wish I was smart about all of this. I'd like to see my car keep running for a long time.

Lastly, where should I go to get this work done? A ford dealer, or a quick shop?

 

[thecritic]

Continue replacing the engine oil and filter every six months or 5,000 miles, whichever comes first. There's no need to replace it any sooner, just be sure to check your oil level regularly between services.

At 100k, I would go ahead and let Jiffy Lube do the transmission and radiator flush. Use a Mercon-V approved fluid. The Pennzoil Multi-Vehicle product that Jiffy Lube stocks in bulk is an approved Mercon-V fluid. Ford does not require a fluid or filter change until 150k miles under normal service, so I would not worry about the filter change. In fact, Ford said in their manuals that a flush is an acceptable way of replacing the fluid as long as you do not add chemicals to the fluid.

The coolant (radiator fluid) should have ve been changed at least every three years after the initial change at five years if you have Motorcraft Premium Gold. Otherwise, you should have it done every three years.

The Crown Vic does not have a timing belt. It uses a timing chain. You do have an accessory drive belt, probably a serpentine belt, that should be replaced at this time. It should cost you about $30 for the belt and $50-$75 for labor.

Ford recommends a spark plug replacement at 100k per the owner's manual. Use the Motorcraft Double Platinum plugs. The wires may or may not need to be replaced depending on the resistance measured. You also need to replace the PCV valve.

I would also flush the brake fluid. Sears does this for $35 and I recommend doing it every two to three years.

Have the coolant and transmission flushed and the serpentine belt changed at Jiffy Lube. Have the brake fluid flushed at Sears. Take the vehicle to the dealer for the spark plug and PCV change. Change your own engine air filter.

 

[jagec]

Well, I wouldn't let JIFFY LUBE do the engine service...not even oil IMHO. Too many horror stories. There was even that NBC report...

 

[thecritic]

Originally posted by: jagec
Well, I wouldn't let JIFFY LUBE do the engine service...not even oil IMHO. Too many horror stories. There was even that NBC report...

Not all Jiffy Lubes are bad. Not all dealerships are great either. Use your best judgment and go by the experiences of others.

It really varies from location to location.

 

[TallBill]

Originally posted by: thecritic
...


Have the coolant and transmission flushed and the serpentine belt changed at Jiffy Lube. Have the brake fluid flushed at Sears. Take the vehicle to the dealer for the spark plug and PCV change. Change your own engine air filter.

Thank you. I'll probably have all of the above done in the next 5k miles.

 

[Zorba]

I would never let Jiffy lube touch anything to do with my Tranny. Take that to a dealer or Tranny shop. Around here, dealers charge exactly the same price for a transmission service as the quick lube places.

 

[bruceb]

I agree. I won't even go near a Jiffy Lube .. Don't trust them to do anything right.
But I would have a tranny shop do the oil & filter change in the tranny. And any
good radiator shop or Ford to flush the coolant system. Put in a new thermostat
while you are in there. Cheap insurance against overheating. As to the serpentine
belt, the cost of the part is about right. You can change it yourself, just follow the
diagram under the hood for how to route it around the pulleys. It should not cost $75
in labor for what is about a 20 minutes job at most.

 

[mooseracing]

Dealer or a qualified Garage to do this work, no quick lube would touch my vehicle.

The coolant should be flushed every 3yrs, ends up being about a year for me though.

You oil should be changed depending on your habits. Blanket statements of 3k miles or 6k are useless because everyone drives differently, in different conditions, and the quality of every single motor is different no matter if it came from the same manufacturing line. The only true way to tell is an oil analysis. I stick with 2-3k because I work my vehicles hard. It has also been proven that the 3 month interval is correct as the acids in the engine not to mention the gas that the oil comes into contact with breaks it all down.

I would be flushing and changing the filter on the tranny ever 30-45k miles. No way I would wait for over 100k. If your tranny fluid hasn't been changed since new I would bet 99% that its tacky/sticky, not much lubricity to it, it more of an orangish then bright red color, and that filter is worthless. Its not like an egine oil filter, it lets alot more through.

The new service intervals are horrible being put out by manufatures.

 

[thecritic]

Originally posted by: mooseracingThe coolant should be flushed every 3yrs, ends up being about a year for me though.

With the older coolants that do not use organic acid technology, yes. That does apply to this application.

Originally posted by: mooseracingYour oil should be changed depending on your habits. Blanket statements of 3k miles or 6k are useless because everyone drives differently, in different conditions, and the quality of every single motor is different no matter if it came from the same manufacturing line. The only true way to tell is an oil analysis. I stick with 2-3k because I work my vehicles hard. It has also been proven that the 3 month interval is correct as the acids in the engine not to mention the gas that the oil comes into contact with breaks it all down.

I agree, which is why the engine oil life monitoring systems are so effective. Each individual operator has a different driving profile, and the software takes that into account and adjusts the service interval accordingly.

However for the vehicles that still use the time/distance service intervals, 5k or six months is still a very conservative interval and is unlikely to cause any long-term damage.

Originally posted by: mooseracingI would be flushing and changing the filter on the tranny ever 30-45k miles. No way I would wait for over 100k. If your tranny fluid hasn't been changed since new I would bet 99% that its tacky/sticky, not much lubricity to it, it more of an orangish then bright red color, and that filter is worthless. Its not like an egine oil filter, it lets alot more through.

The new service intervals are horrible being put out by manufacturers.

Actually, I completely disagree with you here.

Over the last few months, I've been in contact with a transmission fluid engineer from GM. He described to me some of the tests that he has run during validation testing, one of which included running a fleet of vehicles under extreme service for over 120,000 miles on the original oil fill of Dexron-VI will no oil change. After transmission teardown, there was almost no wear on the friction surfaces and the fluid could've gone another 100k easily. Under many service conditions, it's definitely possible that the filled-for-life fluids are able to outlast the components.

The color/odor of the fluids no longer indicates the service life. Oxidation is no longer an issue with the Group II (and higher) base oils. Many of the newer ATFs are designed to keep more of the contaminants in suspension. Thus, if the transmission uses carbon fiber type materials, this could cause the fluid to darken significantly and is completely normal. In fact, the engineer told me that the fluids are supposed to darken as that would indicate that the fluid is working as intended by suspending the contaminants.

 

[thecritic]

Originally posted by: mooseracingThe coolant should be flushed every 3yrs, ends up being about a year for me though.

With the older coolants that do not use organic acid technology, yes. That does apply to this application.

Originally posted by: mooseracingYour oil should be changed depending on your habits. Blanket statements of 3k miles or 6k are useless because everyone drives differently, in different conditions, and the quality of every single motor is different no matter if it came from the same manufacturing line. The only true way to tell is an oil analysis. I stick with 2-3k because I work my vehicles hard. It has also been proven that the 3 month interval is correct as the acids in the engine not to mention the gas that the oil comes into contact with breaks it all down.

I agree, which is why the engine oil life monitoring systems are so effective. Each individual operator has a different driving profile, and the software takes that into account and adjusts the service interval accordingly.

However for the vehicles that still use the time/distance service intervals, 5k or six months is still a very conservative interval and is unlikely to cause any long-term damage.

Originally posted by: mooseracingI would be flushing and changing the filter on the tranny ever 30-45k miles. No way I would wait for over 100k. If your tranny fluid hasn't been changed since new I would bet 99% that its tacky/sticky, not much lubricity to it, it more of an orangish then bright red color, and that filter is worthless. Its not like an egine oil filter, it lets alot more through.

The new service intervals are horrible being put out by manufacturers.

Actually, I completely disagree with you here.

Over the last few months, I've been in contact with a transmission fluid engineer from GM. He described to me some of the tests that he has run during validation testing, one of which included running a fleet of vehicles under extreme service for over 120,000 miles on the original oil fill of Dexron-VI will no oil change. After transmission teardown, there was almost no wear on the friction surfaces and the fluid could've gone another 100k easily. Under many service conditions, it's definitely possible that the filled-for-life fluids are able to outlast the components.

The color/odor of the fluids no longer indicates the service life. Oxidation is no longer an issue with the Group II (and higher) base oils. Many of the newer ATFs are designed to keep more of the contaminants in suspension. Thus, if the transmission uses carbon fiber type materials, this could cause the fluid to darken significantly and is completely normal. In fact, the engineer told me that the fluids are supposed to darken as that would indicate that the fluid is working as intended by suspending the contaminants.

 

[cardiac]

Originally posted by: thecritic

Originally posted by: mooseracingThe coolant should be flushed every 3yrs, ends up being about a year for me though.

With the older coolants that do not use organic acid technology, yes. That does apply to this application.

Originally posted by: mooseracingYour oil should be changed depending on your habits. Blanket statements of 3k miles or 6k are useless because everyone drives differently, in different conditions, and the quality of every single motor is different no matter if it came from the same manufacturing line. The only true way to tell is an oil analysis. I stick with 2-3k because I work my vehicles hard. It has also been proven that the 3 month interval is correct as the acids in the engine not to mention the gas that the oil comes into contact with breaks it all down.

I agree, which is why the engine oil life monitoring systems are so effective. Each individual operator has a different driving profile, and the software takes that into account and adjusts the service interval accordingly.

However for the vehicles that still use the time/distance service intervals, 5k or six months is still a very conservative interval and is unlikely to cause any long-term damage.

Originally posted by: mooseracingI would be flushing and changing the filter on the tranny ever 30-45k miles. No way I would wait for over 100k. If your tranny fluid hasn't been changed since new I would bet 99% that its tacky/sticky, not much lubricity to it, it more of an orangish then bright red color, and that filter is worthless. Its not like an egine oil filter, it lets alot more through.

The new service intervals are horrible being put out by manufacturers.

Actually, I completely disagree with you here.

Over the last few months, I've been in contact with a transmission fluid engineer from GM. He described to me some of the tests that he has run during validation testing, one of which included running a fleet of vehicles under extreme service for over 120,000 miles on the original oil fill of Dexron-VI will no oil change. After transmission teardown, there was almost no wear on the friction surfaces and the fluid could've gone another 100k easily. Under many service conditions, it's definitely possible that the filled-for-life fluids are able to outlast the components.

The color/odor of the fluids no longer indicates the service life. Oxidation is no longer an issue with the Group II (and higher) base oils. Many of the newer ATFs are designed to keep more of the contaminants in suspension. Thus, if the transmission uses carbon fiber type materials, this could cause the fluid to darken significantly and is completely normal. In fact, the engineer told me that the fluids are supposed to darken as that would indicate that the fluid is working as intended by suspending the contaminants.

Those service intervals are just a blanket statement. I am like mooseracing and run my vehicles hard. I have a 1996 E-150 Ford van that I use to tow a 7500lb Jayco travel trailer, and it has 187,000 miles on the original motor/trans combo. I do the trans filter and fluid myself about every 60k or so. Very cheap insurance. I change the anti-freeze when I do the trans. I just did an oil analysis at Blackstone labs and found very few contaminants in my oil. I have been using 5-6k oil change intervals, and only using NAPA Gold filters.

Everyone's situation is different. A neighbor has a Ford F-350 with the 7.3l Powerstroke diesel that Blackstone says can go 10k between oil changes. But, he drives almost strictly highway, and for lots of miles at a time. The person that lives in a cold climate and starts their car, drives 3 miles to work, then shuts it off for 8 hours is going to have a ton more contaminants in their oil than a guy who drives his truck 1,200 miles a week on the highway.

 

[thecritic]

Originally posted by: cardiacThose service intervals are just a blanket statement. I am like mooseracing and run my vehicles hard. I have a 1996 E-150 Ford van that I use to tow a 7500lb Jayco travel trailer, and it has 187,000 miles on the original motor/trans combo. I do the trans filter and fluid myself about every 60k or so. Very cheap insurance. I change the anti-freeze when I do the trans. I just did an oil analysis at Blackstone labs and found very few contaminants in my oil. I have been using 5-6k oil change intervals, and only using NAPA Gold filters.

Everyone's situation is different. A neighbor has a Ford F-350 with the 7.3l Powerstroke diesel that Blackstone says can go 10k between oil changes. But, he drives almost strictly highway, and for lots of miles at a time. The person that lives in a cold climate and starts their car, drives 3 miles to work, then shuts it off for 8 hours is going to have a ton more contaminants in their oil than a guy who drives his truck 1,200 miles a week on the highway.

Of course, which is why the Oil Life Monitoring systems are so effective.

Be careful of any consumer oil analysis. The labs are not very good at interpreting results, thus you may be misled by their data. Very few people are truly qualified to properly interpret oil analysis results.

 

[M2008S]

first of all if youre not mechanically inclined dont do the work yourself, just save yourself the hassle. if youve got $$$ then go to a dealer, otherwise theyre expensive as hell. id find a good reputable shop nearby (im a proud supporter of the mom and pop places) theyre a lot cheaper. ask around. you can go to jiffy places like valvoline or castrol for oil changes if you want. you sohuld get a good well known mechanic and have him do everything in my opinion.

read your owners manual.

PREVENTIVE MAINTENANCE IS GOOD.

trans- maybe 50-60k. get a fluid change and maybe after the first change and youre ready for a second - get a flush (more $). should include fluid, pan gasket, filter, diagnosis, etc. get good fluid. fluid is around $3 a quart for regular and the parts may be around $15 or so.

radiator- heres a clue. if its dirty, change it. if you take the cap off and it smells like FISH, change it. if its not dirty, if its not smelly, looks good and etc... its probably fine. dont worry about it. if it is checked it should be FLUSHED and it would probably take at least 2-2.5 gallons to fill on a crown vic. get good fluid. normally every 2-3 yrs depending on driving conditions and milage. fluid is around $7-9 a gallon.

oil- everyone knows 3k miles change oil and filter and thats good. over time oil breaks down. sometimes people use synthetics or other oils that are good for 5k, 10k, 15k miles. i say save your money and do it every 3k. get name brand stuff and use the correct weight ford manual says. maybe $20 somewhere for someone to do it. with higher miles id use high mile oil, its good for you 🙂. some people add treatments and my favorite that i live by is lucas oil stabelizer. you shouldnt need it but it does help a lot. looks like snot. it clears up some engine noise and helps restore power. also they say engine restorer is good at restoring compression (not sure about that) and you probably dont need that either. get a good hile mileage like castrol GTX or maybe a semisynth like durablend. good oil like mentioned is around 3.50 a quart and a filter is around $5.

air filter- normally changed with tune up below orrrr just check it out. if its dirty, change it, should be around $10 unless its a special shaped one instead of round or flat, then its more.

tune up- including spark plugs, wires, etc. a shop needs to check the plugs and wires, theyll remove a plug and inspect the electrode to see if it needs replaced. same with the wires. your car has a serpentine belt and have it checked also. it will show signs of wear like cracking and etc. plugs are probably around $4 a piece for yours (you want good ones) and wires might be around $40

as far as timing belts, your big v8 does not have a belt. belts are more common on small 4 cyl engines and some v6's. your big v8 (probably a 4.6 L) has a timing chain that im sure is fine. theyre tough 😉. keep in mind the serpentine belt and a timing belt are not the same, a serpentine belt runs off a crank pulley and turns pulleys to power things like your alternator, steering, air conditioning.



keep in mind you have to factor in labor the mechanic charges. my uncle owns his own garage and his labor is 60/hr for gars and 65 for large vehicles and pickups and vans. most dealers are upwards of 90 an hour around here. i live in ohio.

hopefully this info is helpful

 

[thecritic]

Originally posted by: M2008Ssome people add treatments and my favorite that i live by is lucas oil stabelizer. you shouldnt need it but it does help a lot. looks like snot. it clears up some engine noise and helps restore power. also they say engine restorer is good at restoring compression (not sure about that) and you probably dont need that either. get a good hile mileage like castrol GTX or maybe a semisynth like durablend. good oil like mentioned is around 3.50 a quart and a filter is around $5.

There's no need for additives. Save your money and just use the correct oil.

Originally posted by: M2008Skeep in mind you have to factor in labor the mechanic charges. my uncle owns his own garage and his labor is 60/hr for gars and 65 for large vehicles and pickups and vans. most dealers are upwards of 90 an hour around here. i live in ohio.

I'm jealous. Labor rates here are $100/hr minimum. Even independent shops charge at least $85/hr.

 

[M2008S]

Originally posted by: thecritic

Originally posted by: M2008Ssome people add treatments and my favorite that i live by is lucas oil stabelizer. you shouldnt need it but it does help a lot. looks like snot. it clears up some engine noise and helps restore power. also they say engine restorer is good at restoring compression (not sure about that) and you probably dont need that either. get a good hile mileage like castrol GTX or maybe a semisynth like durablend. good oil like mentioned is around 3.50 a quart and a filter is around $5.

There's no need for additives. Save your money and just use the correct oil.

Originally posted by: M2008Skeep in mind you have to factor in labor the mechanic charges. my uncle owns his own garage and his labor is 60/hr for gars and 65 for large vehicles and pickups and vans. most dealers are upwards of 90 an hour around here. i live in ohio.

I'm jealous. Labor rates here are $100/hr minimum. Even independent shops charge at least $85/hr.

move to canton ohio my uncle and i will hook you up 😉. his lot is so full with his little 2 bay shop, 2 years old in april. i often have to go over just to help him move and push cars around theres so many.

 

[cardiac]

Tallbill, another thing to watch on your 4.6 liter is that they have a plastic intake manifold, and there is a small coolant bypass pipe on the front that is also made of plastic and these crack, and then your screwed. Check to see if this has been changed to the new design, which has a metal pipe.

Replacement manifold. Here you can see that the manifold is still plastic, but the coolant pipe and thermostat housing in the front is now metal.

 

[mooseracing]

thecritic are you talking about the systems buillt into the car for the oil life?

To me those are worthless, they can't study your independent engine interals and how much the oil itself is breaking down or how acidic it is. It bases it off your habits, so that is basically saying all oil is created equally as long as your habits are the same.

Which are group II ATF's, I still see Mercron V breakdown just like any other ATF. It will become orange when its burnt or the clutches start to burn and its definately not as tacky. Which is how my g/f's 'o4 Buick is, and its hasn't been changed for 100k.

There has to be wear on the friction surfaces, thats how there is smooth shifting. The clutches slowly engage and slip until full pressure is put on them. It's a natural thing you can't avoid, just like manual transmissions and the clutch wearing out.

My preventive maintence has helped all of my vehicles survive over 200k of hard abuse, and still run great. The body's on the other hand are a different issue.

 

[thecritic]

Originally posted by: mooseracing
thecritic are you talking about the systems buillt into the car for the oil life?

To me those are worthless, they can't study your independent engine interals and how much the oil itself is breaking down or how acidic it is. It bases it off your habits, so that is basically saying all oil is created equally as long as your habits are the same.

I'm not sure if I am understanding you correctly.

The GM Oil Life System calculates the correct service interval for each individual driver based on a pre-programmed computer algorithm. It assumes that you are the engine is in tune and you are using the latest API rated conventional motor oil for your vehicle. The system was tested with the minimum spec oil to allow for a significant margin of error. Fleet testing of over a million miles worldwide (combined) has shown the system to be an extremely accurate.

Originally posted by: mooseracingWhich are group II ATF's, I still see Mercon V breakdown just like any other ATF. It will become orange when its burnt or the clutches start to burn and its definately not as tacky. Which is how my g/f's 'o4 Buick is, and its hasn't been changed for 100k.

There has to be wear on the friction surfaces, thats how there is smooth shifting. The clutches slowly engage and slip until full pressure is put on them. It's a natural thing you can't avoid, just like manual transmissions and the clutch wearing out.

I know the Dex III(H) fluids are Group II or higher. Same goes for Mercon V and the new Dexron-VI, which is Group III.

Also, the fluid does need to be inspected on a regular basis and replaced if it starts appearing burnt. If you are racing (I assume based on your username???), the fluid is going to be lifetime fill.

When I think of burnt fluid, I think black, not orange. As I've said, some discoloration is normal as the dye may fade or some the fluid is suspending some clutch material. The '04 Buick wasn't factory filled with Dexron III(H) anyway (that was introduced in 2005), so it sounds like it's due for a fluid/filter change + flush with Dexron-VI.

 

[TallBill]

Just to update, I don't know when or if the transmission has ever been flushed. I bought the car at about 80k miles.

 

[dirtboy]

I go by what the book in the glove compartment says. If you don't have one, I imagine somewhere you can fine the service intervals and what needs to be done at those times.