Traffic court...are lawyers worth it?

jagec

Lifer
Apr 30, 2004
24,442
6
81
Backstory: I'm heading to Issaquah about a month ago to pay a surprise visit to a friend on my new motorcycle. I'm going down 99-S to get onto I-90, and I totally forgot that there was a game that day.
So, I spend a good half-hour in stop and go traffic. Finally, I get onto I-90. Frustrated by the traffic, I start going much faster than I usually do...like 15 over. Well, before too long I see the red-and-blue in my windows. I pull over, I'm courteous, I apologize and explain that I usually don't speed like that, I was just frustrated. All true, but I guess he had heard it all before, because he just said "Well you did tonight!", and hands me a $500 ticket for "negligent driving." WTF? I was speeding, true. But I wasn't weaving in and out of traffic, I wasn't cutting anyone off, I was using my signals for every lane change...I guess he just didn't get a radar reading and wanted to make something stick?

The court date's coming up, and I'm stuck in a difficult position. This was the first time I've really opened up on the highway (and probably the last...I've been kicking myself almost every day for the past month, and certainly have been keeping it to a reasonable speed). I'm usually a very safe driver, and all my friends can attest to that. But, of course, the legal system has heard that defense a billion times by now, and the truth simply won't cut it anymore.

So now I have to consider whether to show up to court and be perfectly honest (I'm not good at BSing my story, I just don't feel right doing that), or hire a lawyer to do the BSing, at around the cost of the ticket. I really don't want this on my record, and $500 is an insanely high amount of money for me. How do they determine these fines, anyway? I mean, any doctor or lawyer would consider it a pinprick, but for me, it's a crushing blow.

So, those of you who have been to traffic court...how forgiving are the judges? Are they usually willing to lessen your sentence, or is it something you really want to fork over the $$$ to hire a lawyer for? How effective are the lawyers, anyway? I guess if the US court system is really for sale, I might as well be doing the buying, but I really want to believe that a regular citizen can do OK in the courtroom, even without years of law school. I want to be honest and penitent, but that simply doesn't seem to be a recipe for success in modern society.

This sucks.:(
 

Aimster

Lifer
Jan 5, 2003
16,129
2
0
you are SOL

show up..

the judge will drop the fine and make you go to driving school ...

or.. tell you that you are going to have to pay $500.
 

Eos

Diamond Member
Jun 14, 2000
3,463
17
81
I got a speeding ticket in TN driving a commercial vehicle and went to traffic school to get it expunged. Sweet. Maybe this is an option.
 

mb

Lifer
Jun 27, 2004
10,233
2
71
Didn't read a word you said, but I got a lawyer when I got a ticket for 92 in a 70 in NC. I didn't have to go to court, and the lawyer got the ticket dropped. Cost of lawyer was far far cheaper than paying the ticket. No traffic school either.
 

CRXican

Diamond Member
Jun 9, 2004
9,062
1
0
well judges are people too and that's a hefty fine

I would admit to speeding but explain that you don't agree that you were being "negligent" (find out how the law defines that term so you'll know you weren't being "negligent"

Hope that he reduces it, pay what's left and go to traffic school
 

T9D

Diamond Member
Dec 1, 2001
5,320
6
0
Whats a lawyer going to do? You were speeding for one thing. Whats he going to argue? And it's not like there is a jury to convince. You are just going to annoy the judge that you are pissing with him and he'll probably give you the worse he could.

Go in and explain nicely what happened and hope for some understanding and mercy.
 

Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
30,342
10,860
136
It depends on what type of charge negligent driving is in WA ... if its just a violation, a lawyer is most likely a waste of money but if its somthing more then that (ie: similar to a reckless driving charge) it would be a good idea to at least talk to one so you don't walk into court blind.

Do some research on WA traffic laws & find out what your looking at in terms of penalty beyond the fine, that'll give you a better idea of how to proceed.
 

Ricemarine

Lifer
Sep 10, 2004
10,507
0
0
Originally posted by: jagec
Originally posted by: Ricemarine
Negligence in the 1st degree in WA
Negligence in the 2nd degree.

Welcome to WA? :laugh:

$250? They're charging me $500 freakin' dollars!:|

First degree? :confused:
Were you drinking?...
Cause right now you are being accused of first degree negligent driving.

I'd say... ask and see what a lawyer thinks.
Were you given a field sobriety test for alcohol?.
If you weren't, you can complain.

Wasn't there also a way for that if you weren't radared, you can use that to your advantage in court?. Also goes for if you were radared (inaccurate readings?)..
 

jagec

Lifer
Apr 30, 2004
24,442
6
81
Originally posted by: Ricemarine
First degree? :confused:
Were you drinking?...
Cause right now you are being accused of first degree negligent driving.

I'd say... ask and see what a lawyer thinks.
Were you given a field sobriety test for alcohol?.
If you weren't, you can complain.

Wasn't there also a way for that if you weren't radared, you can use that to your advantage in court?. Also goes for if you were radared (inaccurate readings?)..

No no, second degree, I certainly was NOT drinking or under the influence of anything else. The penalty on the ticket says $538, but the penalty on the state code says $250. I called a lawyer just to get a general idea of costs ($500 to hire the lawyer, plus whatever penalties they aren't able to get dropped:roll: ), and they said "Yeah, they love to issue negligent driving-2nd degree to motorcycles."

I wonder if it would be a good defense for me to say "l may have been speeding, but I was careful to allow plenty of space between me and other vehicles, especially when changing lanes, and I always use my signal. Thus, I feel that I was NOT endangering or likely to endanger any other person or vehicle..." (yeah, like a motorcycle could do any real damage even if I was pulling wheelies at 150mph) "...furthermore, the penalty assessed on the ticket form is incorrect, as it reads over twice the value allowed in RCW 46.61.525."

I should also look up where the jurisdiction of Mercer Island ends, I was pulled over on the far side of a bridge.

I just worry that if I play laywer boy, I'll get bitten by something simple. Argh! It was so much simpler in Ecuador, where everyone was corrupt and penalties were tiny.
 

dxkj

Lifer
Feb 17, 2001
11,772
2
81
I know someone who was killed driving a pickup truck when a bike smashed into the broadside and imbedded itself deeply in the side.
 

jagec

Lifer
Apr 30, 2004
24,442
6
81
Originally posted by: dxkj
BTW, how fast were you going? Did you ask to see the radar reading?

No radar reading, the cop said "you were going between 10 to 20 over, you passed ME!"

I was going about 15 over. And SO many other people get away with it...:(

Originally posted by: dxkj
I know someone who was killed driving a pickup truck when a bike smashed into the broadside and imbedded itself deeply in the side.

Fair enough, but that's unlikely to happen on a freeway.

But I could be grasping at straws. Still, I like living, and don't ride in a way that's likely to endanger my life. A crash would do that.
 

Ricemarine

Lifer
Sep 10, 2004
10,507
0
0
Originally posted by: jagec
Originally posted by: dxkj
BTW, how fast were you going? Did you ask to see the radar reading?

No radar reading, the cop said "you were going between 10 to 20 over, you passed ME!"

I was going about 15 over. And SO many other people get away with it...:(

Ahahaha...

Northern Seattle...
We go at night 5-10 miles an hour over...
So um...

yeah... Our traffic does suck.
You shouldn't ever get frustrated in WA.

If you were in the left lane, then... You can get lucky? :confused:

and yes... if you see a motorcycle whiz by you, and you're a cop, who wouldn't want to pull you over?...
 

UncleWai

Diamond Member
Oct 23, 2001
5,701
68
91
Are you saying you did 75 on I90 and got caught? Jesus you got pounded ITB.
Isn't DonVito a lawyer here? Hook him up the money.
 

aircooled

Lifer
Oct 10, 2000
15,965
1
0
For a $500 ticket, your best bet is to just to show up on the court date. The DA will come to you before you see the judge and say "Will you plead guilty to x" which will be lower than what you were ticketed for.

 

dxkj

Lifer
Feb 17, 2001
11,772
2
81
get some traffic lawyer, I doubt they charge $500 , but who knows, at least consult with them for $50 or something.

If you were NOT on radar, they have no proof how fast you were going, just that you were going faster than the policeman.

I think if you pointed out to the DA that the charges are absurd, and that he didnt clock you, you could get off with less, but why not get a professional's opinion ?
 

jlbenedict

Banned
Jul 10, 2005
3,724
0
0
with all the 1st degree & 2nd degree bs besides..

Here is my take on why you got what you got:

First off, what type of motorcycle?

Also, its generally assumed and quite common that motorcyclists are profiled and cops become much more jackass'ish when ticketing motorcyclists.
If you were in a car, I would almost guarantee you would not have got the negligent driving charge.

 

Trikat

Diamond Member
May 22, 2003
3,384
0
86
Prayer for judgement or something like that. I don't know too much about it, but sounds like you might want to go this route.
 

jagec

Lifer
Apr 30, 2004
24,442
6
81
Originally posted by: UncleWai
Are you saying you did 75 on I90 and got caught? Jesus you got pounded ITB.
Isn't DonVito a lawyer here? Hook him up the money.

Yup, pretty much. I thought it was ridiculously harsh too, considering that just a couple miles further east, EVERYONE'S going 70.

Originally posted by: jlbenedict
with all the 1st degree & 2nd degree bs besides..

Here is my take on why you got what you got:

First off, what type of motorcycle?

Also, its generally assumed and quite common that motorcyclists are profiled and cops become much more jackass'ish when ticketing motorcyclists.
If you were in a car, I would almost guarantee you would not have got the negligent driving charge.

1st degree is if you were drinking or something.

Motorcycle is a DL650 V-strom. It's billed as a "sports enduro tourer", but really it's a standard with a fairing and decent shock travel. Looks like a sport bike, though, which is a problem with the cops. Yeah, I probably wouldn't have even gotten pulled over if I was in my car.
 

tikwanleap

Senior member
Oct 9, 1999
922
0
0
dunno about WA, but in Texas you can get the ticket dropped off your record if you take defensive driving. Another option if you have already taken defensive driving within the past year or so is to ask for deferred adjudication.

I did both, one for each of two traffic tickets, and neither went on my record.
 

Garet Jax

Diamond Member
Feb 21, 2000
6,369
0
71
Originally posted by: jagec
Backstory: I'm heading to Issaquah about a month ago to pay a surprise visit to a friend on my new motorcycle. I'm going down 99-S to get onto I-90, and I totally forgot that there was a game that day.
So, I spend a good half-hour in stop and go traffic. Finally, I get onto I-90. Frustrated by the traffic, I start going much faster than I usually do...like 15 over. Well, before too long I see the red-and-blue in my windows. I pull over, I'm courteous, I apologize and explain that I usually don't speed like that, I was just frustrated. All true, but I guess he had heard it all before, because he just said "Well you did tonight!", and hands me a $500 ticket for "negligent driving." WTF? I was speeding, true. But I wasn't weaving in and out of traffic, I wasn't cutting anyone off, I was using my signals for every lane change...I guess he just didn't get a radar reading and wanted to make something stick?

The court date's coming up, and I'm stuck in a difficult position. This was the first time I've really opened up on the highway (and probably the last...I've been kicking myself almost every day for the past month, and certainly have been keeping it to a reasonable speed). I'm usually a very safe driver, and all my friends can attest to that. But, of course, the legal system has heard that defense a billion times by now, and the truth simply won't cut it anymore.

So now I have to consider whether to show up to court and be perfectly honest (I'm not good at BSing my story, I just don't feel right doing that), or hire a lawyer to do the BSing, at around the cost of the ticket. I really don't want this on my record, and $500 is an insanely high amount of money for me. How do they determine these fines, anyway? I mean, any doctor or lawyer would consider it a pinprick, but for me, it's a crushing blow.

So, those of you who have been to traffic court...how forgiving are the judges? Are they usually willing to lessen your sentence, or is it something you really want to fork over the $$$ to hire a lawyer for? How effective are the lawyers, anyway? I guess if the US court system is really for sale, I might as well be doing the buying, but I really want to believe that a regular citizen can do OK in the courtroom, even without years of law school. I want to be honest and penitent, but that simply doesn't seem to be a recipe for success in modern society.

This sucks.:(

Judges care about the law. What is negligent driving? Are you guilty of it? If so, then you are probably SOL unless you hire a lawyer who gets you off on a technicality. If not, then argue why you are not guilty of it.

Remember, anything you say in your defence can be used to augment the ticket. So if you say I was going 15mph over the speed limit, but wasn't......

Then you might find yourself with a speeding ticket in addition to the current one.