TR2 - 430W: Still junk for a gaming rig?

[CheapBast]

Hey all,

So I just built a budget PC with the intent to upgrade over the summer, but I ended up not being able to handle the no-so-elegant integrated HD 4200, so I want to upgrade NOW. I began looking into midrange cards to add to my system, and I've set a few cards in my sights: the HD 5770, the GTX 460 (192 bit version), and the GTX 260 Core 216 (mainly because tigerdirect is selling the BFG MAXCORE version for 99 bucks!)

Because these cards draw some power (TDP: 5770~110W, 460~160W, 260~190W) I also started researching my current PSU to see if it could take it. I've it had for about a week now. It's the Thermaltake TR2 430W model, which seems to have gotten some criticism for being a 350W supply with a 430W sticker - a fact which I believe originated from the 'hardware secrets' web site. (Link: http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/332)

The model that they tore down and evaluated seems to be a different model than I have, however. The reviewed supply has a single 12V rail rated at 18A, while the one I have seems to have dual rails, rated at 14 and 15A (Link: http://www.thermaltakeusa.com/Product.aspx?S=1172&ID=1541#Tab1).

Had I known sooner that this supply was possibly overrated, I would not have purchased it for my build, but now that I have it I'd rather stick with it than replace it.

My question to you guys is: is anyone running this 'updated' tr2-430w model anywhere near it's spec. power, or with one of the cards that I've mentioned? I would like to get away with running the Nvidia 460 without replacing what I've got.

If not, do you have any suggestions on cheap replacements? (I know that you get what you pay for, but already buying a new PSU makes my pockets hurt)

If it helps, the rest of my build contains:
*AMD AthlonII x3 450 'Rana' - 4th core unlock failed
*Biostar A880g+ (integrated HD 4200 graphics)
*4Gb ADATA DDR3 1600 (running at 1333 because of mobo)
*1Tb Hdd
*1W USB WiFi
*DVD

I'm guessing that the rest of the system draws at most 150W....

Thanks for any help!

 

[Concillian]

You should be able to handle around 150W TDP video card without too much worry, even if it's only a 350W supply. If you're really concerned, get a 5770 or 6850, as these are the biggest bang for the energy usage. I wouldn't really consider a gtx260. The gtx460 / 768MB gets that price on sale and is faster, and consumes less power. If the 5770 is on your list, the GTX460 / 768 is probably a better buy and should fit in your power envelope.

 

[Zap]

Hello CheapBast, and welcome to AnandTech Forums.

Yes, it is still junk. I think internally it is the same, only with an updated label specifying dual rails (which still add up to 18A). In fact, Thermaltake used to list the W0070 (your PSU) and W0069 (the original version) on the same page. At the end of the day it is still an old ATX 1.3 design warmed over to somewhat resemble more modern PSUs. Think about it... it still has the voltage switch on the back and the quoted efficiency is 65%.

Now, as a 350W PSU with 212W of +12v power, it isn't that terrible. I'd take it over any of the crap that's usually found bundled with cheap cases. You would not want to use a GTX 260 with it. Basically don't use any graphics card that requires more than a single 6-pin PCIe power plug.

For future reference, you can be a cheap bastard without giving up too much quality by being patient and shopping for deals.

For instance see this Hot Deals thread on a Corsair CX430 PSU that is $20 after rebate and is a hell of a lot better than the TR2-430. Antec has also had deals on their Earthwatts and NEO ECO line putting them under $40 out the door, and sometimes as cheap as the Corsair. Rosewill RG "Green" series are also decent units that can be found frequently on sale. Beyond these, you can get lower end Seasonic units like this 350W 80Plus Bronze PSU for under $50 out the door, day in and day out. All of these PSUs that I've listed are frequently or all the time under $50 and as cheap as under $20 during special sales (Corsair CX430 and Antec EA380 have both been $15 after rebate in the past) and all these PSUs are a WORLD better in quality and output than the TR2-430.

 

[VirtualLarry]

(Corsair CX430 and Antec EA380 have both been $15 after rebate in the past) and all these PSUs are a WORLD better in quality and output than the TR2-430.

I dunno, the EarthWatts 380 is pretty weak also. If the TR2-430 is really a 350W PSU, then the EA380 isn't much better then.

I ran a pair of TR2-430W (the 18A single 12V rail model), with overclocked E2140s @ 2.8 and 3.2, and Radeon X1950 GT and Pro cards, for over a year with no issues.

I replaced them with Antec Basiq 500W units, because everyone here complained that the TR2 units sucked, but I didn't see any difference. Well, except for that one of the Antec's sleeve-bearing fans went in under a year, necessitating another replacement unit.

I've since replaced them with EA650 EarthWatts units, due to upgrading again to Q9300 @ 3.0, and GTX460 cards.

I would avoid running a GTX460 on a TR2-430 unit, even a ThermalTake 500W unit.

 

[CheapBast]

Concillian, Zap, VirtualLarry,

Thanks a lot for the advice guys. I'm still becoming familiar with the site, but I will keep an eye on the 'hot deals' thread for a PSU - hopefully one that's more than 65% efficient and doesn't lie (?) about it's power output. Oddly enough, I did get the PSU in a bundled case deal (v3 Black and TR2) so I guess in that respect I did well!

I'll probably give in on buying a video card today - we'll see how it goes. I need some sort of gratification after studying non-stop for 2 days. I'm sort of a freak for ATI, so the 6850 looks nice, but it seems that the 460 may be a little more proverbial bang for the buck.

If I ever get around to replacing the TR2 (or if I order the card and subsequently my computer doesn't boot) I'll probably tear it down and compare it to the model reviewed by hardware secrets. There's probably a PSU tester somewhere in the engineering building where I'm at most of the day anyway, so I could probably load it down and see if it lives up to it's reputation. I've also got a ~300W variable-resistance power resistor array and a lab full of multimeters that I could use for loading purposes if I can't find a tester. I wonder if these supplies like being loaded one rail at a time....

Did any of you notice that the output voltage ripple is somewhat large compared to other supplies? Think I could get away with adding a few caps to the output stage to smooth it out a bit?... I've got some pretty hefty ones (~2mF) that I snagged from a large modular PSU... or maybe I'd just be fixing something that isn't broke. haha

Anyway, I appreciate the responses. I'll try to post as things change. Adios!

 

[Zap]

I dunno, the EarthWatts 380 is pretty weak also. If the TR2-430 is really a 350W PSU, then the EA380 isn't much better then.

It is a lot better for a modern system because of the amount of +12v power on tap. The EA380 (both Seasonic and Delta versions) has around 27A/324W while the TR2-430 has around 18A/216W. +12v power is more important to modern rigs because that's what graphics cards (PCIe power plugs) and CPUs (4-pin or 8-pin EPS) use as power input, which are the most power hungry parts of a modern computer.

I wonder if these supplies like being loaded one rail at a time....

Nope, will make it go all wonky. Only independently regulated PSUs take well to cross loads.

Did any of you notice that the output voltage ripple is somewhat large compared to other supplies? Think I could get away with adding a few caps to the output stage to smooth it out a bit?...

IANAEE but sounds as if it might be possible. However, as a PSU approaches its limits, the ripple usually increases. With the low +12v limits of the TR2-430, you won't be able to get around that problem so easily.