TR: "Nvidia goes stereoscopic with GeForce 3D Vision"

[AmberClad]

This is one of the better reviews of the Stereo 3D tech I've seen:

Nvidia goes stereoscopic with GeForce 3D Vision

They go into pretty good detail as far as which games work well, which ones don't. What settings you might have to change to get the 3D effect to look decent. Etc.

There's also a screencap of the overlay that displays compatibility details in-game.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: AmberClad
This is one of the better reviews of the Stereo 3D tech I've seen:

Nvidia goes stereoscopic with GeForce 3D Vision

They go into pretty good detail as far as which games work well, which ones don't. What settings you might have to change to get the 3D effect to look decent. Etc.

There's also a screencap of the overlay that displays compatibility details in-game.

I agree, that's a pretty good review and assessment of those games.

You can find imperfections in some games, but the overall experience of gaming with depth outweighs the shortcomings by far for me. I haven't gamed on a normal monitor for 6 weeks now, and when you have a 3007WFP-HC sitting next to it, that says something.

I still haven't showed this to anyone who didn't think it was amazing.

 

[WelshBloke]

Ouch!

With all of the qualifications, caveats, gotchas, and frustrations I've expressed over GeForce 3D Vision, you probably have a good sense already that this technology just isn't ready for prime time yet. Few games work well enough to make it worth buying, and from a purely value-oriented standpoint, the math is brutal.

Still it gives the monitors time to come down in price while they iron out the issues.


I thought you said most games worked really well Rollo?

 

[Creig]

Originally posted by: nRollo
I haven't gamed on a normal monitor for 6 weeks now, and when you have a 3007WFP-HC sitting next to it, that says something.

It's interesting that you keep mentioning comparing your Dell 3007 to the Samsung 2233.

Beyond its 120Hz capability, our pre-production sample of the SyncMaster 2233BZ isn't anything special, either. To make an entirely unfair comparison, next to the Dell 3007WFP-HC we usually have on our GPU test bench, the 2233BZ has noticeably inferior color reproduction, with visible loss of contrast and slight color shift at acute viewing angles.

So for any other usage other than 3D gaming, spending $400 on the Samsung 2233 makes very little sense.

Conclusions
With all of the qualifications, caveats, gotchas, and frustrations I've expressed over GeForce 3D Vision, you probably have a good sense already that this technology just isn't ready for prime time yet. Few games work well enough to make it worth buying, and from a purely value-oriented standpoint, the math is brutal. Not only do you have to buy the glasses for $199 and a display for $349 or more, but you'll also need quite a bit more GPU power in order to keep 3D Vision performance up to snuff. Then, whenever you're not playing games, you'll be stuck with a relatively low-resolution, low-quality monitor. For somewhere in the same basic price neighborhood, you could instead pick up a 27" or 30" LCD, with an IPS or VA panel and much better color reproduction, and get higher frame rates with a cheaper graphics card. That's easily a better deal than a 3D Vision setup, no question about it.

I think the conclusion pretty much echoes what the rest of us have been saying all along. The entry price tag for the 3D Vision package is simply too high for the vast majority of gamers.

 

[apoppin]

when you have a 3007WFP-HC sitting next to it, that says something.

--it sure does .. it more than implys you aren't really a gamer


at any rate, the article is based on evidently quite a few hours with it

his main points were to try them on; the glasses can be uncomfortable

evidently no one likes the overpriced monitors:

2233BZ has noticeably inferior color reproduction, with visible loss of contrast and slight color shift at acute viewing angles. Perhaps production models will be improved somewhat when they arrive?they're slated for release in April?but I doubt Samsung will be able to achieve the color reproduction of the best LCDs in combination with 120Hz quickness.

no tri-sli evidently

but THIS is what tells me to wait for StereoVisionII

The biggest catch, at present, is spotty game compatibility. Most games aren't designed with stereoscopic 3D in mind, and to cope with a variety of potential issues, Nvidia has created a host of game-specific profiles, much like the profiles it uses for SLI. 3D Vision profiles are a little more complicated, though. If SLI doesn't work, the fall-back behavior is pretty simple: lower performance?frustrating, maybe, but not devastating. If 3D Vision has a compatibility problem, well, all manner of funky things might happen visually, many of which can ruin the sense of depth in the display or send your visual system into a tizzy. What's more, 3D Vision's incompatibilities tend to involve certain rendering techniques, so Nvidia will oftentimes ask you to disable some features of a game for the sake of compatibility. ...
Most of the games I tried (all of them relatively new releases) required a few adjustments, many of which meant compromising on visual fidelity somewhat. The most common trouble spot seems to be shadowing algorithms. The profiles frequently recommending dialing back the quality of shadowing in the game's options, if not disabling shadows entirely.

and i noticed what he did about 3D

One of the first things I noticed is that the amount of depth shown, by default, is very much on the low side, something like 16% of the total possible. At this default setting, one can perceive differences in the third dimension, but object themselves look flat?as if one were seeing a cardboard cut-out of a gun placed clearly in front of a cardboard cut-out of a bad guy, with a cardboard cut-out of a tree placed well behind him.

hokey

Once I noticed the ghosting, I later spotted it other games, but nowhere was it quite as obvious, or distracting, as in Mirror's Edge.

the good point is that FUTURE games .. with the prime example being Left4Dead .. will look good in 3D

Performance:

Well, that didn't work out too well. Some games felt sluggish with stereoscopic 3D enabled, even at 1680x1050, and even with features like high-quality shadows sometimes disabled. I really didn't want slow frame rates to spoil the effect for my test subjects, so I tried swapping in a GeForce GTX 285 instead. When that wasn't enough, I just went whole hog and plugged in a second GTX 285. That did the trick, but it ought to have?we're talking about a pair of $350 graphics cards.

the conclusion is the opposite of this one:

I still haven't showed this to anyone who didn't think it was amazing.

wow you spent THAT MUCH on imperfect brand tech for a little LCD
- amazing

:roll:

 

[SlowSpyder]

Originally posted by: Creig

Originally posted by: nRollo
I haven't gamed on a normal monitor for 6 weeks now, and when you have a 3007WFP-HC sitting next to it, that says something.

It's interesting that you keep mentioning comparing your Dell 3007 to the Samsung 2233.

Beyond its 120Hz capability, our pre-production sample of the SyncMaster 2233BZ isn't anything special, either. To make an entirely unfair comparison, next to the Dell 3007WFP-HC we usually have on our GPU test bench, the 2233BZ has noticeably inferior color reproduction, with visible loss of contrast and slight color shift at acute viewing angles.

So for any other usage other than 3D gaming, spending $400 on the Samsung 2233 makes very little sense.

Conclusions
With all of the qualifications, caveats, gotchas, and frustrations I've expressed over GeForce 3D Vision, you probably have a good sense already that this technology just isn't ready for prime time yet. Few games work well enough to make it worth buying, and from a purely value-oriented standpoint, the math is brutal. Not only do you have to buy the glasses for $199 and a display for $349 or more, but you'll also need quite a bit more GPU power in order to keep 3D Vision performance up to snuff. Then, whenever you're not playing games, you'll be stuck with a relatively low-resolution, low-quality monitor. For somewhere in the same basic price neighborhood, you could instead pick up a 27" or 30" LCD, with an IPS or VA panel and much better color reproduction, and get higher frame rates with a cheaper graphics card. That's easily a better deal than a 3D Vision setup, no question about it.

I think the conclusion pretty much echoes what the rest of us have been saying all along. The entry price tag for the 3D Vision package is simply too high for the vast majority of gamers.

Yea, that's one of the big negitives for this to me. If you have a nice 24+ monitor already, then you have to effectively down grade to this fast TN monitor. Now, if all you do is game and want 3D, this will be fine and dandy. But most of us do use our PC's for more then gaming, so now everything else you use your monitor for just took a dive in quality, physicaly size, and resolution... unless you don't mind and have the room for dual monitors. I bet a lot of people enjoy having full 1080P on their 24" monitors, if you have to get the 22" 120Hz well, you just lost that. I'm sure 3D is incredible for gaming, but between it's cost and downfalls like these, I just don't know... Hopefully it findes it's niche, and that niche is big enough to keep it alive. It could have a great future, but I just don't see it being ready yet.

 

[JACKDRUID]

does this monitor from this deal Dell 21.5 inch S2209W Full HD Widescreen Flat Panel Monitor work with 3d vision?

 

[AmberClad]

Originally posted by: JACKDRUID
does this monitor from this deal Dell 21.5 inch S2209W Full HD Widescreen Flat Panel Monitor work with 3d vision?

That looks like a 60Hz monitor, not a 120Hz one...

If you're looking for the full list of compatible displays, here's a list.

 

[JACKDRUID]

no deal for me then ;D

cool. thx for the info.

 

[SunnyD]

Why didn't you just post this in the other NV Stereo3D thread?

 

[AmberClad]

Originally posted by: SunnyD
Why didn't you just post this in the other NV Stereo3D thread?

Why would I ? One of the two current threads is discussing a completely different article. The other, older one is long and convoluted enough as it is.

 

[QueBert]

I'm too lazy to Google and I'm sure I know the answer already. But this WON'T work on my CRT even though I can do a 120hz refresh rate right?

 

[SirPaulie]

I thought it was a good read.

Offered some positives, negatives and the potential over-all moving forward in time. There is some work to do but the potential seems promising as this matures. Enjoyed the Sli analogy and use that one myself. Don't think this will ever be seamless in all examples but it's here and let's see what nVidia does to improve it moving forward.

On monitors:

It's tough to gauge a higher resolution 2d screen experience to a lower resolution 3d screen experience and will expand:

At times, a lower resolution with AA may look better than a higher resolution without AA. It's not just higher resolution is better than lower resolution but what the screen over-all is offering to some.

I'm open minded to think that it may be possible that a 3d screen experience may raise the bar very much over-all in a lot of titles over a 2d screen experience. Need to see it first hand to judge though.

Raising negatives is always healthy for discussion so end-users may understand the hurdles and limitations a feature may have.

 

[Creig]

Originally posted by: QueBert
I'm too lazy to Google and I'm sure I know the answer already. But this WON'T work on my CRT even though I can do a 120hz refresh rate right?

No, it should work just fine. Any display that can support a 120Hz refresh rate should be compatible. In fact, you may even be able to run higher than that with your CRT. With the old Elsa glasses, I remember running at 140Hz which got rid of the vast majority of flicker that I saw at 120Hz. I'm just not sure if the new Nvidia software or glasses will support 140Hz.

 

[AmberClad]

Originally posted by: QueBert
I'm too lazy to Google and I'm sure I know the answer already. But this WON'T work on my CRT even though I can do a 120hz refresh rate right?

If you check that Nvidia page I linked above, it does say that "100 Hz and higher analog CRTs" are compatible.

 

[cusideabelincoln]

So I take it these 120 Hz LCDs are truly 120 Hz? I've heard that some of the "120 Hz" LCD TVs artificially implement frames. Anyone want to clear this up or give me a link?

 

[lavaheadache]

Originally posted by: nRollo

Originally posted by: AmberClad
This is one of the better reviews of the Stereo 3D tech I've seen:

Nvidia goes stereoscopic with GeForce 3D Vision

They go into pretty good detail as far as which games work well, which ones don't. What settings you might have to change to get the 3D effect to look decent. Etc.

There's also a screencap of the overlay that displays compatibility details in-game.

I agree, that's a pretty good review and assessment of those games.

You can find imperfections in some games, but the overall experience of gaming with depth outweighs the shortcomings by far for me. I haven't gamed on a normal monitor for 6 weeks now, and when you have a 3007WFP-HC sitting next to it, that says something.

I still haven't showed this to anyone who didn't think it was amazing.

RIP

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: cusideabelincoln
So I take it these 120 Hz LCDs are truly 120 Hz? I've heard that some of the "120 Hz" LCD TVs artificially implement frames. Anyone want to clear this up or give me a link?

i think you are correct

perhaps that is why Nvidia keeps a list of monitors that work with 3d vision

 

[Nathelion]

Could this be done on a 60 hz monitor by just letting each eye see an effective frame rate of 30 instead of 60 Hz? Not that I would particularly like to, just curious.

 

[Mr Burns]

The nvidia glasses don't work at 60HZ. But any other shutterglasses work at 60HZ on a crt. No 60 HZ lcd will work. Of course 60HZ will drive you insane.

If you have a crt the drivers work fine for 85+ HZ, including dlp projectors @85HZ that can do stereo.

 

[apoppin]

there is a hack to do Left-4Dead with the "superbowl" glasses in full 3D
-with the suitable Nvidia card and drivers

i am going to try and find the glasses for myself

http://gamerslastwill.com/2009...free-oh-yeah-hereshow/

 

[BFG10K]

Originally posted by: cusideabelincoln

So I take it these 120 Hz LCDs are truly 120 Hz?

Yes, that's what makes them so special. The rest of them are really 60 Hz except for very rare units that truly do 75 Hz.

 

[AmberClad]

Originally posted by: apoppin
there is a hack to do Left-4Dead with the "superbowl" glasses in full 3D
-with the suitable Nvidia card and drivers

i am going to try and find the glasses for myself

http://gamerslastwill.com/2009...free-oh-yeah-hereshow/

Your link isn't working... here's a working one.

From quickly scanning over that, it sounds like it's not just limited to those Superbowl glasses -- anyone have a pair of those red/blue paper glasses from a Cracker Jack box ?

One of the people who commented on that blog article also mentioned the iZ3D drivers.

 

[apoppin]

sorry about that, Amber

here is another one:

http://www.vgnerd.com/news/play-left-4-dead-in-3d/

the guys at one of the forums has adapted it for 2 types of 3D glasses