TPMS saved the day! Or did it?

[Eug]

TPMS light came on today, in my new winter wheels from just last month.

Yes, I paid to get TPM sensors in my new winter tires. Luckily these were programmed to clone the IDs of the original TPM sensors in my other tires, so I don't have to reprogram the car each time I swap tires. So I thought all was good for the next few years.

But like I said, after one month, my TPMS light came on. I checked the pressures and yep, one of the tires was in the 20s for PSI. Recommended pressure mid 30s. So, I pumped up the tire to 35 PSI and measured the next day. Back down to 30 PSI.

I took the car in and indeed there was a leak. TPMS was doing its job...

...but it turns out the issue was that the leak was apparently near the base of the valve where it attaches to the TPM sensor. In fact, the entire sensor had to be replaced.

I'm not sure if this is due to a defective part, or if it's due to an improper install, but it certainly didn't inspire confidence. I didn't have to pay for it as the tire shop said it falls under their warranty, but it certainly didn't inspire confidence. I've never seen an issue with a regular valve install.

This is probably unrelated, but I've since read that the valve attachment is a common weak point for TPM sensors. See here:

http://www.tirebusiness.com/article/20120227/ISSUE/302279958/tpms-migraines

It's so bad that battery life is no longer the issue, because the batteries will outlive the sensors and their valve attachments. Ouch.

No wonder the big car manufacturers are removing TPMS from various models of their cars in Canada. As mentioned in another thread, our new 2016 RAV4 Hybrid came with no TPMS.

 

[DeviousTrap]

No wonder the big car manufacturers are removing TPMS from various models of their cars in Canada. As mentioned in another thread, our new 2016 RAV4 Hybrid came with no TPMS.

Link? I found the hard to believe.

What's actually happening is that now that ABS systems are very sophisticated, manufacturers are able to measure wheel rotation speed using them to figure out if a tire is flat (as it rotates at a different rate). This gets rid of having to put a sensor into a wheel, but still gives you the same result as a TPMS (minus the ability to get a readout of the pressure inside the tire).

 

[LTC8K6]

TPMS is very convenient, even if the stability control system doesn't need it.

I like to know the pressure in each of my tires, and I like to know if my spare tire has low pressure.

 

[Eug]

Link? I found the hard to believe.

What's actually happening is that now that ABS systems are very sophisticated, manufacturers are able to measure wheel rotation speed using them to figure out if a tire is flat (as it rotates at a different rate). This gets rid of having to put a sensor into a wheel, but still gives you the same result as a TPMS (minus the ability to get a readout of the pressure inside the tire).

TPMS is not mandatory in Canada. So, Canadian manufacturers are not including it. My RAV4 Hybrid has no TPMS, and there is no mention of TPMS anywhere in the RAV4 specs for Canada.

The Canadian 2012 RAV4 V6 Sport had TPMS, but now none of the RAV4 models in Canada have TPMS of any sort.

http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/motorvehiclesafety/roadsafety-1158.htm

The Tire Pressure Monitoring System (TPMS) is not a manufacturing requirement on new vehicles sold in Canada, or on imported vehicles. Furthermore, there is no federal regulation that prohibits disabling the TPMS system on vehicles, as vehicle use falls under provincial and territorial jurisdictions.

While the TPMS is not a requirement in Canada, the U.S. Federal Regulations require that all new light vehicles sold in the U.S. since September 2007 be equipped with a TPMS. Some manufacturers do offer TPMS on vehicles sold in Canada as either standard or optional equipment. To find out whether the TPMS as equipped conforms to U.S. federal standards or the manufacturer’s own standards, please refer to the owner’s manual or contact the dealership.

Based on our research and collision investigation programs, Transport Canada has not identified a pattern of motor vehicle collisions caused conclusively by tire failure in Canada.

In fact, I found this out when I asked my dealership for a quote for winter wheels, including the TPM sensors. I was informed that there was no TPMS in the RAV4 so the quote would not include TPMS. So I went to the Toyota Canada website, and confirmed the complete absence of TPMS in the specs. Note that cars like the Sienna and Prius do have TPMS, and it is mentioned in the specs. OTOH, cars like the Camry and Yaris do not. The Corolla mostly doesn't have TPMS, but one specific model does for some reason.

http://www.toyota.ca/toyota/en/vehicles/corolla/specifications/safety

TPMS is very convenient, even if the stability control system doesn't need it.

I like to know the pressure in each of my tires, and I like to know if my spare tire has low pressure.

I wouldn't mind having that, but the TPMS in my Prius (the one with the problem in the first post) doesn't have that. There is just a TPMS light which comes on if one of the tires has low pressure. It doesn't tell you how low the pressure is, and it doesn't tell you which tire.

 

[NutBucket]

Yeah, TPMS in our GMC was nice because the multifunction display in the dash gave individual pressure readouts.

 

[natto fire]

If doing it in America, better have the TPMS send a text message to the inept driver, so they can Instagram about how their tire is low, OMG!

 

[pcgeek11]

Link? I found the hard to believe.

What's actually happening is that now that ABS systems are very sophisticated, manufacturers are able to measure wheel rotation speed using them to figure out if a tire is flat (as it rotates at a different rate). This gets rid of having to put a sensor into a wheel, but still gives you the same result as a TPMS (minus the ability to get a readout of the pressure inside the tire).

That is how they were doing it before TPMS Sensors became the norm.

My wife's Toyota Camry wagon from 1988 used the ABS System to calculate a low tire pressure.

 

[Eug]

That is how they were doing it before TPMS Sensors became the norm.

My wife's Toyota Camry wagon from 1988 used the ABS System to calculate a low tire pressure.

In Canada the current Camry and Camry Hybrid have no tire pressure warning light at all.

 

[slag]

Link? I found the hard to believe.

What's actually happening is that now that ABS systems are very sophisticated, manufacturers are able to measure wheel rotation speed using them to figure out if a tire is flat (as it rotates at a different rate). This gets rid of having to put a sensor into a wheel, but still gives you the same result as a TPMS (minus the ability to get a readout of the pressure inside the tire).

GM did this back in the 90s. My 97 GTP had this technology. I don't know why many companies still use TPMS in the wheel. I had it in the Titan and now in the Tundra and its just something else to fail and replace.

 

[Scarpozzi]

What bothers me about TPMS is the convenience cost of having it. Tire shops act as though it's a big deal and use it as a money grab. To me, that part of it is a joke. At the same time, I was recently on a 10 hour trip somewhere and the TPMS went off in my truck about 3 hours from home. I pulled over and inflated my tires....which were all very close to the right level. I did this in the middle of the drive because I feared I ran over a nail and wanted to top off the tires to see if it was an active leak by the time we reached our destination... It wasn't....was just a low tire that probably lost air out the rim seals.

 

[slag]

What bothers me about TPMS is the convenience cost of having it. Tire shops act as though it's a big deal and use it as a money grab. To me, that part of it is a joke. At the same time, I was recently on a 10 hour trip somewhere and the TPMS went off in my truck about 3 hours from home. I pulled over and inflated my tires....which were all very close to the right level. I did this in the middle of the drive because I feared I ran over a nail and wanted to top off the tires to see if it was an active leak by the time we reached our destination... It wasn't....was just a low tire that probably lost air out the rim seals.

Discount tire checks them for free with their hand held scanner, airs up tires for free, if you buy them there, which I did because they were the lowest price, fixes them for free... They even sell aftermarket TPMS sensors that work just like OEM. i had to get one for my titan when I owned it because the battery died in it and it worked great.

 

[michal1980]

I've had a regular valve stem fail.

The reason Toyota doesn't include TPMS in Canada has everything to do with cost cutting.
No law to have it, not going to provide it.

Its why a lot of cars that in the USA/Canada have air bags, when those same cars in other countries don't.

 

[LTC8K6]

My TPMS does not trigger unless the tire is 7 psi below the correct pressure. So if I see a warning, I know the tire does need air. Supposed to be 33, TPMS triggers at 26.

 

[Demo24]

Link? I found the hard to believe.

What's actually happening is that now that ABS systems are very sophisticated, manufacturers are able to measure wheel rotation speed using them to figure out if a tire is flat (as it rotates at a different rate). This gets rid of having to put a sensor into a wheel, but still gives you the same result as a TPMS (minus the ability to get a readout of the pressure inside the tire).

This is how my gti does it as well. I've had it trigger once after hitting a hard expansion on the highway( not sure why that affected it). Another disadvantage is it has no ability to determine if all 4 tires are equally low.

 

[Eug]

I've had a regular valve stem fail.

The reason Toyota doesn't include TPMS in Canada has everything to do with cost cutting.
No law to have it, not going to provide it.

Its why a lot of cars that in the USA/Canada have air bags, when those same cars in other countries don't.

My Prius has it, and so does the 2016. Dunno why, since that's not an expensive car.

 

[LTC8K6]

This is how my gti does it as well. I've had it trigger once after hitting a hard expansion on the highway( not sure why that affected it). Another disadvantage is it has no ability to determine if all 4 tires are equally low.

A hard hit can release air from the bead, I think.

 

[exar333]

I don't mind the sensors and it is nice to get a readout of each tire (spare included) with the individual PSI. If you are in a cold climate, its nice to see when tires drop 2-3psi and you can top them off back to pressure. In those cases, a passive (ABS system for example) likely wouldn't trigger until it was 'significantly' low.

 

[wiretap]

It's nice to have, but I've found it very unreliable. Over the past 5 years, I've had several issues with mine. 3 different times I've had dead batteries in them. Two occasions the sensor just stopped working and needed replaced. Two occasions they leaked, causing a flat tire. I then bought some aftermarket ones from Discount Tire and they could never be programmed to my vehicle, even by the dealership. (Mitsubishi) I just ended up removing them, then disabled the TPMS warning in the ECU.

 

[Raduque]

I wouldn't mind having that, but the TPMS in my Prius (the one with the problem in the first post) doesn't have that. There is just a TPMS light which comes on if one of the tires has low pressure. It doesn't tell you how low the pressure is, and it doesn't tell you which tire.

Ugh, my F150 does that. What makes it really irritating, is the computer KNOWS which tire is low, it just won't tell you! If I had $1800 to blow on it, I could get an aftermarket radio that can read data pulled from the OBD by a box and it will show me which tire is low.

 

[LTC8K6]

It's nice to have, but I've found it very unreliable. Over the past 5 years, I've had several issues with mine. 3 different times I've had dead batteries in them. Two occasions the sensor just stopped working and needed replaced. Two occasions they leaked, causing a flat tire. I then bought some aftermarket ones from Discount Tire and they could never be programmed to my vehicle, even by the dealership. (Mitsubishi) I just ended up removing them, then disabled the TPMS warning in the ECU.

No problems yet in my 08 Jeep. No new batteries yet, either.