Toyota or Honda?

[Demo24]

Quick question and I just need a simple answer

Cant rember

 

I belive it was Honda (Insight)

EDIT: It was Toyota

1997
Toyota Prius went on sale to the public in Japan. First-year sales were nearly 18,000.

 

[Eli]

ondaHa

 

[tennisflip]

Probably here.

 

[TomKazansky]

honda had it first in us

toyota had it first in japan

 

[sniperruff]

i really like how the insight looks tho.

 

[AgaBoogaBoo]

Originally posted by: infestedgh0st
honda had it first in us

toyota had it first in japan

 

[Crescent13]

a toyota's a toyota

a toyota's a toyota

a honda's a honda

a dnoha's a dnoha

I couldn't help it.

Honda had the hybrid first.

 

[maddogchen]

I think its Toyota has a true hybrid and Honda one with compromises.

 

[RU482]

In the year 1900, American car companies made 1,681 steam, 1,575 electric and 936 gasoline cars. In a poll conducted at the first National Automobile Show in New York City, patrons favored electric as their first choice, followed closely be steam.

New sig

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: maddogchen
I think its Toyota has a true hybrid and Honda one with compromises.

Werd.

Honda's Hybrid system is inferior to Toyota and Ford. Honda's electric motor can't power the vehicle on its own. It has to work in conjunction with the gas motor all the time.

Toyota and Ford's hybrid systems can run the vehicle up to around 25MPH on electric power alone.

 

[Howard]

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: maddogchen
I think its Toyota has a true hybrid and Honda one with compromises.

Werd.

Honda's Hybrid system is inferior to Toyota and Ford. Honda's electric motor can't power the vehicle on its own. It has to work in conjunction with the gas motor all the time.

Toyota and Ford's hybrid systems can run the vehicle up to around 25MPH on electric power alone.

What the hell is a true hybrid?

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: Howard

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: maddogchen
I think its Toyota has a true hybrid and Honda one with compromises.

Werd.

Honda's Hybrid system is inferior to Toyota and Ford. Honda's electric motor can't power the vehicle on its own. It has to work in conjunction with the gas motor all the time.

Toyota and Ford's hybrid systems can run the vehicle up to around 25MPH on electric power alone.

What the hell is a true hybrid?

Toyota and Ford system:

- Gas engine cuts off when stopped
- Electric engine powers vehicle up to 25MPH
- Electric + gas engine power vehicle 25MPH+ and under hard acceleration

Honda System:

- Gas engine cuts off when stopped
- Electric + gas engine power vehicle at all times under motion

 

[eelw]

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: maddogchen
I think its Toyota has a true hybrid and Honda one with compromises.

Werd.

Honda's Hybrid system is inferior to Toyota and Ford. Honda's electric motor can't power the vehicle on its own. It has to work in conjunction with the gas motor all the time.

Toyota and Ford's hybrid systems can run the vehicle up to around 25MPH on electric power alone.

But if the hybrid system is to fail, the Toyota will be dead. The Honda can still run on the ICE. So complete dependency on the hybrid system is not the ideal solution either.

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: eelw

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: maddogchen
I think its Toyota has a true hybrid and Honda one with compromises.

Werd.

Honda's Hybrid system is inferior to Toyota and Ford. Honda's electric motor can't power the vehicle on its own. It has to work in conjunction with the gas motor all the time.

Toyota and Ford's hybrid systems can run the vehicle up to around 25MPH on electric power alone.

But if the hybrid system is to fail, the Toyota will be dead. The Honda can still run on the ICE. So complete dependency on the hybrid system is not the ideal solution either.

The Toyota/Ford systems can also run full gas/electric whenever needed...

They basically do everything the Honda can do plus they CAN run in full electric mode up to 25MPH

 

[eelw]

Originally posted by: NFS4

They basically do everything the Honda can do plus they CAN run in full electric mode up to 25MPH

Umm, but if the hybrid system is to fail, you can't start a Toyota hybrid unlike the Honda.

And it's not as if the Toyota Synergy system ends up being any more efficient than the Honda Internal Motor Assist system. Both offer comparable performance and MPG.

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: eelw

Originally posted by: NFS4

They basically do everything the Honda can do plus they CAN run in full electric mode up to 25MPH

Umm, but if the hybrid system is to fail, you can't start a Toyota hybrid unlike the Honda.

And it's not as if the Toyota Synergy system ends up being any more efficient than the Honda Internal Motor Assist system. Both offer comparable performance and MPG.

1) It doesn't matter. You'd be screwed in the Honda as well:

First, the odds of an electric-motor failure are much lower than the odds of a gasoline-engine failure. And of course, that stress on the engine due to not having IMA available isn't good.

Second, the "continue" part only applies to the current in-use session. As soon as you shut off the engine or if auto-stop activates, you're stuck. Without IMA, the 12-volt battery is required restart the engine instead. And the comment neglects to point out that a hybrid system failure means that 12-volt will likely be dead, since IMA is required to keep it charged while driving.

http://www.priuschat.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=24129

Regardless. If a portion of the hybrid systems conks on either system, you're fvcked either way.

2) Civic Hybrid: 48/47
Prius Hybrid: 60/51

Notice the higher city numbers for the Prius...and why is that??? Plus, the Prius is a larger vehicle.

 

[eelw]

Originally posted by: NFS4
1) I'm still not following with you saying that the Toyota won't start...it's the same basic principal as the Honda

Toyota has the electric and gas components running in serial. While Honda is in parellel. So like any serial circuit, if one component fails, the entire system is dead.

Prius Hybrid: 60/51

Notice the higher city numbers for the Prius...and why is that??? Plus, the Prius is a larger vehicle.

Fair enough, EPA numbers give the edge to the current gen Pruis, but in real world, many Civic Hybrid owners are getting over 50MPG. While Prius owners are not quite achieving the city EPA numbers. Based on what I have read on the Yahoo hybrid forums, they are only getting around 50-52MPG. I currently am getting 55MPG on my Civic Hybrid. So Honda's system is just a capable and Toyota's.

 

[thomsbrain]

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: maddogchen
I think its Toyota has a true hybrid and Honda one with compromises.

Werd.

Honda's Hybrid system is inferior to Toyota and Ford. Honda's electric motor can't power the vehicle on its own. It has to work in conjunction with the gas motor all the time.

Toyota and Ford's hybrid systems can run the vehicle up to around 25MPH on electric power alone.

i guess that explains why the insight is better than even the 2nd-gen Prius in MPG (both city and highway)? and unlike the prius, the insight has numerous owners reporting mileage figures significantly higher than the EPA rating (versus significantly lower for the prius), with some people claiming 100 MPG+ over the life of the vehicle (this is reasonable since Car & Driver drove an Insight 195 highway miles and got 121.7 MPG, though they drafted to achieve this, and non-drafting magazines reported figures as high as 105 MPG for similar runs). according to EPA, the Insight gets 37% better highway fuel economy than the 5-years-newer 2nd-gen prius, which means insight shines where it matters: HIGHWAY miles. furthermore, if you want to have ANY hope of not getting your ass eaten up by the car behind you, the prius DOES require the gas engine to roll away from a stop, which is partly why its real-world figures are so piss-poor. the electric-rolloff story is nothing more than marketing ploy for 95% of real-world driving. yes, i've test-driven one, that's how i know.

even if you do baby the prius off the line, in the end, the energy that moves the car comes from the gas tank, no matter how the system is set up. moving the car on battery power alone merely ensures more energy-conversion efficiency losses, which offset the gain you might get by not running the engine at an inefficient load level. case in point: the jerry-rigged and far less electrically-assisted civic matches the combined MPG of the completely revised and purpose-built prius AND out-accelerates it AND it doesn't drive like the controls are hooked up to rubber bands spinning in molasses.

not bad for a couple of "inferior hybrids."

the prius has it's own set of advantages, of course, including a high resale value due to prius-hysteria.

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: thomsbrain

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: maddogchen
I think its Toyota has a true hybrid and Honda one with compromises.

Werd.

Honda's Hybrid system is inferior to Toyota and Ford. Honda's electric motor can't power the vehicle on its own. It has to work in conjunction with the gas motor all the time.

Toyota and Ford's hybrid systems can run the vehicle up to around 25MPH on electric power alone.

i guess that explains why the insight is better than even the 2nd-gen Prius in MPG (both city and highway)? and unlike the prius, the insight has numerous owners reporting mileage figures significantly higher than the EPA rating (versus significantly lower for the prius), with some people claiming 100 MPG+ over the life of the vehicle (this is reasonable since Car & Driver drove an Insight 195 highway miles and got 121.7 MPG, though they drafted to achieve this, and non-drafting magazines reported figures as high as 105 MPG for similar runs). according to EPA, the Insight gets 37% better highway fuel economy than the 5-years-newer 2nd-gen prius, which means insight shines where it matters: HIGHWAY miles. furthermore, if you want to have ANY hope of not getting your ass eaten up by the car behind you, the prius DOES require the gas engine to roll away from a stop, which is partly why its real-world figures are so piss-poor. the electric-rolloff story is nothing more than marketing ploy for 95% of real-world driving. yes, i've test-driven one, that's how i know.

even if you do baby the prius off the line, in the end, the energy that moves the car comes from the gas tank, no matter how the system is set up. moving the car on battery power alone merely ensures more energy-conversion efficiency losses, which offset the gain you might get by not running the engine at an inefficient load level. case in point: the jerry-rigged and far less electrically-assisted civic matches the combined MPG of the completely revised and purpose-built prius AND out-accelerates it AND it doesn't drive like the controls are hooked up to rubber bands spinning in molasses.

not bad for a couple of "inferior hybrids."

the prius has it's own set of advantages, of course, including a high resale value due to prius-hysteria.

The Insight can come with a stick shift, weighs 2250 lbs, and has only a 1.0 liter 3-cylinder engine and is aerodynamically styled as a two-seater with no concessions to passenger room/cargo volume. No sh!t it will get better gas mileage.

The Civic vs Prius is a better comparison.

 

[eelw]

Originally posted by: NFS4

The Insight can come with a stick shift, weighs 2250 lbs, and has only a 1.0 liter 3-cylinder engine and is aerodynamically styled as a two-seater with no concessions to passenger room/cargo volume. No sh!t it will get better gas mileage.

The Civic vs Prius is a better comparison.

I would have to agree, the Insight can't be compared to any other vehicle available in North America. There are a few 3 cylinder cars in Europe, which get relatively high MPG, but still not over 100MPG like the Insight.

But just like thomsbrain, I'm sick of the elistist Prius owners pretending the Prius is so much better with their "FULL" hybrid than the "MILD" Honda hybrids.

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: eelw

Originally posted by: NFS4

The Insight can come with a stick shift, weighs 2250 lbs, and has only a 1.0 liter 3-cylinder engine and is aerodynamically styled as a two-seater with no concessions to passenger room/cargo volume. No sh!t it will get better gas mileage.

The Civic vs Prius is a better comparison.

I would have to agree, the Insight can't be compared to any other vehicle available in North America. There are a few 3 cylinder cars in Europe, which get relatively high MPG, but still not over 100MPG like the Insight.

But just like thomsbrain, I'm sick of the elistist Prius owners pretending the Prius is so much better with their "FULL" hybrid than the "MILD" Honda hybrids.

The point is, there is the potential for increased city mileage if the engine is off during around town cruising or stop and go traffic. That's why the Prius' city mileage is roughly 10 more than a Civic Hybrid.

Think about it. Your sitting in bumper to bumper traffic. One person in a Civic Hybrid, one person in a Prius. Civic cuts off its engine while your stopped. Traffic moves a little bit...Civic cuts its engine back on creeps forward 15 feet, stops, cuts off engine again. Pretty inefficient IMHO.

The Prius would just creep forward under its own electric power w/o any intervention from the gas motor at all.

Wouldn't really matter all that much to me as I live in an area where bumper to bumper traffic isn't THAT bad. But in some places (like CA), I can see where it might be beneficial.

 

[OS]

Originally posted by: NFS4
The point is, there is the potential for increased city mileage if the engine is off during around town cruising or stop and go traffic. That's why the Prius' city mileage is roughly 10 more than a Civic Hybrid.

Think about it. Your sitting in bumper to bumper traffic. One person in a Civic Hybrid, one person in a Prius. Civic cuts off its engine while your stopped. Traffic moves a little bit...Civic cuts its engine back on creeps forward 15 feet, stops, cuts off engine again. Pretty inefficient IMHO.

The Prius would just creep forward under its own electric power w/o any intervention from the gas motor at all.

Wouldn't really matter all that much to me as I live in an area where bumper to bumper traffic isn't THAT bad. But in some places (like CA), I can see where it might be beneficial.

There's no such thing as free energy. The electric motor creeping the car forward had to come from the gas engine anyways.

 

[sciencewhiz]

Originally posted by: NFS4

The Prius would just creep forward under its own electric power w/o any intervention from the gas motor at all.

Wouldn't really matter all that much to me as I live in an area where bumper to bumper traffic isn't THAT bad. But in some places (like CA), I can see where it might be beneficial.

The Prius, by design, can only creep for so long, before needing to recharge the batteries, using the engine. Anyone know how long that is?

Also, does anyone know how long and/or far the EPA city test is? I could creep in the prius for 100 feet and have infinite MPG, but that doesn't mean anything in the real world.

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: OS

Originally posted by: NFS4
The point is, there is the potential for increased city mileage if the engine is off during around town cruising or stop and go traffic. That's why the Prius' city mileage is roughly 10 more than a Civic Hybrid.

Think about it. Your sitting in bumper to bumper traffic. One person in a Civic Hybrid, one person in a Prius. Civic cuts off its engine while your stopped. Traffic moves a little bit...Civic cuts its engine back on creeps forward 15 feet, stops, cuts off engine again. Pretty inefficient IMHO.

The Prius would just creep forward under its own electric power w/o any intervention from the gas motor at all.

Wouldn't really matter all that much to me as I live in an area where bumper to bumper traffic isn't THAT bad. But in some places (like CA), I can see where it might be beneficial.

There's no such thing as free energy. The electric motor creeping the car forward had to come from the gas engine anyways.

The batteries are charged when the engine is running. So if you're driving to work for ~15 - 20 minutes on gas/electric power at crusing speed, the batteries are charging. You hit traffic. You doddle around for another 20-25 minutes on battery power alone in bumper to bumper traffic. You break traffic and continue to work and batteries start charging again.

During that 20-25 minutes that you're pissing around in bumper to bumper traffic, the Prius would be running off battery power. A Civic would be alternating between gas engine on and gas engine off.