- Oct 9, 1999
- 72,636
- 47
- 91
Toyota, Ford at opposite ends of development for the hybrids
- Thread starter NFS4
- Start date
I am one of those consumers anxiously awaiting actual hybrid units on the road rather than all this talk. I definately think US automakers are dragging their feet on this and only investing in this because it's PC. Too much money in oil/fuel companies to start looking elsewhere.
Toyota, Please make a hybrid SUV/Truck soon. I will be all over that.
Toyota, Please make a hybrid SUV/Truck soon. I will be all over that.
BigSmooth
Lifer
- Aug 18, 2000
- 10,484
- 12
- 81
Toyota is taking the long view as they tend to do. Seems to have paid off handsomely. They are sitting on a boatload of cash which the mismanaged US companies do not have.
Toyota has put atleast 1 Billion dollars into the development of said product, and it knows it wont see any returns for years.
"Toyota has sold more than 130,000 Priuses worldwide. Endo believes the automaker needs 300,000 sales annually to break even. " (This is since 1997, when they hit the market) To break even they need to sell 300,000 annually!
They are not making money off this (so i'm missing how this has "paid off handsomely". They are actually losing money for the time being. They are looking towards the future, but the rewards are not there right now.
Also it says Honda (they are mentioned in the article) doesn't have the money either. So is it "mismanaged US companies"?
You're missing the point: The sooner they get the "lose money on each unit" phase out of the way, the sooner they can actually start turning a profit. Toyota has clearly put themselves at a competitive advantage, because sales and demand are already increasing exponentially. I have no doubt that they will be turning a profit within the next few years, especially when they start offering the hybrid systems in a wider range of models, from economy to luxury. Once hybrids really start gaining acceptance, and they get a few higher priced hybrid models out there, like the RX300, they will have the ability to turn a profit because of the high sticker price.
We'll just have to see how quickly Ford and GM (and Chrysler, but are they even American anymore?) can catch up, and whether they'll lose less money than Toyota and Honda doing it.
Mismanagement in the American auto companies comes down more to complacency than anything else. American companies put far less into R+D, took far fewer risks on new product introductions, and generally sat on thier hands as thier quality went to hell as Japanese cars got better and better. That has little to do with the UAW and more to do with a failure of leadership.
Originally posted by: Eli
There are already hybrid units available.. for a few years. What rock have you been under?
Yeah, they have the Prius, Insite, and the half assed Civic. All cars that looked great, but still were not more than first gen "concept cars". I know. I am the worst kinda consumer. I want a polished, low gas milage, semi-powerful (mid to lower 100s in hp) vehicle at a sub 20k price range. But, I am not willing to invest in the first few attempts to keep them willing to inovate. Honestly, looking down the road, we definately need to get off the fossil fuels ASAP (within the next 20-40 years) or there will be major hurt globally.
I agree.Originally posted by: LordThing
Originally posted by: Eli
There are already hybrid units available.. for a few years. What rock have you been under?
Yeah, they have the Prius, Insite, and the half assed Civic. All cars that looked great, but still were not more than first gen "concept cars". I know. I am the worst kinda consumer. I want a polished, low gas milage, semi-powerful (mid to lower 100s in hp) vehicle at a sub 20k price range. But, I am not willing to invest in the first few attempts to keep them willing to inovate. Honestly, looking down the road, we definately need to get off the fossil fuels ASAP (within the next 20-40 years) or there will be major hurt globally.
Although I must mention that the Prius and Insight are both in their second generation. They have improved a lot from the 1st.
But will they do it better? With their gasoline engines alone, Honda and Toyota already get better fuel economy than most of the competitors. Look no farther than the standard Civic and Corolla's fuel economy compared to Focus, Saturn, Neon and most of the other imports, for that matter, to see what I mean.
- Oct 9, 1999
- 72,636
- 47
- 91
Originally posted by: Eli
I agree.Originally posted by: LordThing
Originally posted by: Eli
There are already hybrid units available.. for a few years. What rock have you been under?
Yeah, they have the Prius, Insite, and the half assed Civic. All cars that looked great, but still were not more than first gen "concept cars". I know. I am the worst kinda consumer. I want a polished, low gas milage, semi-powerful (mid to lower 100s in hp) vehicle at a sub 20k price range. But, I am not willing to invest in the first few attempts to keep them willing to inovate. Honestly, looking down the road, we definately need to get off the fossil fuels ASAP (within the next 20-40 years) or there will be major hurt globally.
Although I must mention that the Prius and Insight are both in their second generation. They have improved a lot from the 1st.
The Insight is still in its first generation.
Originally posted by: Eli
I agree.Originally posted by: LordThing
Originally posted by: Eli
There are already hybrid units available.. for a few years. What rock have you been under?
Yeah, they have the Prius, Insite, and the half assed Civic. All cars that looked great, but still were not more than first gen "concept cars". I know. I am the worst kinda consumer. I want a polished, low gas milage, semi-powerful (mid to lower 100s in hp) vehicle at a sub 20k price range. But, I am not willing to invest in the first few attempts to keep them willing to inovate. Honestly, looking down the road, we definately need to get off the fossil fuels ASAP (within the next 20-40 years) or there will be major hurt globally.
Although I must mention that the Prius and Insight are both in their second generation. They have improved a lot from the 1st.
Oh, I really like the new 2004 Prius. That is one sweet ride and if I was in the market for a car right now, it would be near the top of my list. But I think the real "killer app" for hybrids will be the SUV. If they can come along with giving the 4wd power, decent seating, touch of creature comforts, and get 25-30mpg....they would own the market.
Oh. Mybad.Originally posted by: NFS4
Originally posted by: Eli
I agree.Originally posted by: LordThing
Originally posted by: Eli
There are already hybrid units available.. for a few years. What rock have you been under?
Yeah, they have the Prius, Insite, and the half assed Civic. All cars that looked great, but still were not more than first gen "concept cars". I know. I am the worst kinda consumer. I want a polished, low gas milage, semi-powerful (mid to lower 100s in hp) vehicle at a sub 20k price range. But, I am not willing to invest in the first few attempts to keep them willing to inovate. Honestly, looking down the road, we definately need to get off the fossil fuels ASAP (within the next 20-40 years) or there will be major hurt globally.
Although I must mention that the Prius and Insight are both in their second generation. They have improved a lot from the 1st.
The Insight is still in its first generation.
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