http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/...z4LvsoAwQJU&refer=home
screw toyota, no one buys their cars, let them die.
Toyota asks for Bailout
- Thread starter MikeMike
- Start date
screw toyota, no one buys their cars, let them die.
Inspector Jihad
Lifer
- Apr 17, 2005
- 13,465
- 3
- 81
Umm they are looking for loans from Japan...why would I care about that? Now if the Japanese want to say no then that is their business and I would respect that.
GroundedSailor
Platinum Member
- Feb 18, 2001
- 2,502
- 0
- 76
Which is why US Gov statistics for new passenger car sales, show, for e.g., in 2006
Domestics sold: 5.3 million cars
Imports sold: 2.3 million
Which is also why in 2006 sales by manufacturer were:
Chrysler: 2.1 million
Ford: 2.8 million
GM: 4.1 million
Toyota: 2.5 million
Honda: 1.5 million
Nissan: 1.0 million
Sure the argument does not apply to Toyota because everyone is buying their cars. Lets just overlook that 45% of the vehicles sold in the US were made by the domestic 3 because their number can safely be ignored.
You guys simply argue on perception. It helps to look at reality once in a while.
StageLeft
No Lifer
- Sep 29, 2000
- 70,150
- 5
- 0
You argue based on meaningless numbers. I am talking trends. The big three are hemorrhaging market share. This is not in dispute, but feel free to get the numbers that prove my assertion. They have not been profitable enterprises for years, this economy is merely helping remove the smokescreen.
Skoorb is right. With the big 3, it looks like their business model was broken before we ever got into this recession and they were losing money and marketshare. Throwing money at a failing business model doesn't seem smart.
Toyota on the other hand appears to have a viable business model but has gotten crushed by the recession. It makes more sense to support a viable busines model, and I'd guess that's what the Japanese will do.
Toyota on the other hand appears to have a viable business model but has gotten crushed by the recession. It makes more sense to support a viable busines model, and I'd guess that's what the Japanese will do.
American auto makers should be crushing their competitors. If you go back to 1970, and re-wind the clock and re-wind the utterly stupid decisions by Detroit, you will understand what I mean. Detroit didn't lead with technology, economy, and price, but led with fluff and leaned on the goodwill of the American people for many years. By the 1980's Americans were turning away from American made cars-abandoning Detroit. Detroit knew they were losing the American public, but because their market share abroad was rising, and because their executives were paid for SHORT TERM RESULTS in a big way, they ignored the problem.
This is a failure of American capitalism and American business schools.
-Robert
This is a failure of American capitalism and American business schools.
-Robert
StageLeft
No Lifer
- Sep 29, 2000
- 70,150
- 5
- 0
You are right. There is no denying the fact that when Detroit was pumping out barely-formed sh*t a lot of people bought it simply because it was American-made. They exhausted that good will and although it still encourages some to buy US-only, even with the fact domestic quality is finally worth talking about a lot of people are so burned by owning so many cars that caused problems that it's hard to get them back. You hear a lot more "I will never buy an American car again" than "I will never buy a Japanese car again".
I agree with everything except the "this is a failure of the american capitalism and american business schools" part. That's complete BS. It's simply corporations resting on their laurels and getting passed up by other ones making better decisions. That's how capitalism is supposed to work.
Well, we will have to disagree on this point. I see this same problem throughout American industry, plus, the Japanese don't pay their execs for short term results, as American corps do. Although it may not matter in the end if all of these companies fail, the Japanese have a much more rational business model of capitalism than Americans-and thus the failure of American business schools and American capitalism. This isn't an indictment of all capitalism, just the type practiced in America where the stockholders were defrauded by management and huge amounts of potent investment capital were transferred to a few men. You have to understand the impact of the pay schemes for American execs. It's fatally flawed.
-Robert
From the first page of your link:
"New-vehicle sales by manufacturer (bottom of the next page) show GM, Ford, and Chrysler losing market share in 2006, as did Nissan. Two of the major Japanese brands - Toyota and Honda, saw their shares rise. Lexus, Hyundai, Mazda, Subaru Suzuki, and Kia saw gains, as did Audi, BMW, Land Rover, Mercedes, VW, and Porsche."
If you actually read what you linked to, you would see a substantial gain in foreign market share over the last 10 years, and a substantial drop in domestics.
But hey, it helps to look at reality sometimes.
Thump553
Lifer
- Jun 2, 2000
- 12,837
- 2,622
- 136
One extremely important fact omitted by the original poster-Toyota is seeking loans from the JAPANESE government. No "bailout" from the USA is sought.
So long as whatever done is done in accordance with fair trade treaties, I could care less. I don't want the US car companies competing with companies subsidized by foreign governments where our companies are not allowed to compete on an equal footing in their country (as has been the case for years).
So long as whatever done is done in accordance with fair trade treaties, I could care less. I don't want the US car companies competing with companies subsidized by foreign governments where our companies are not allowed to compete on an equal footing in their country (as has been the case for years).
One of the reasons why market share has dropped is GLOBAL competition.
There didn''t used to be Korean cars here, VW had bugs and shitty vans
Japanese had econoboxes period or toy trucks
Ford GM have also gone into other markets which is why GM makes millions of cars each yr and was only surpassed by Toyota last yr when trucks and SUV's cratered.
Nissan almost went tits up in 97, was that because their cars were universally loved?
Toyota's domestic 'and protected' market has fallen 32% every car builder is under siege.
The biggest are the most vulnerable because of their HUGE capacity they HAVE to crank out large volumes of cars to make the margins, Toyota or GM
BTW VW claims a profit last year but they aren't reporting their 4th quarter yet and thats when Toyota's fortunes turned too
There didn''t used to be Korean cars here, VW had bugs and shitty vans
Japanese had econoboxes period or toy trucks
Ford GM have also gone into other markets which is why GM makes millions of cars each yr and was only surpassed by Toyota last yr when trucks and SUV's cratered.
Nissan almost went tits up in 97, was that because their cars were universally loved?
Toyota's domestic 'and protected' market has fallen 32% every car builder is under siege.
The biggest are the most vulnerable because of their HUGE capacity they HAVE to crank out large volumes of cars to make the margins, Toyota or GM
BTW VW claims a profit last year but they aren't reporting their 4th quarter yet and thats when Toyota's fortunes turned too
Originally posted by: ericlp
Wish I could afford a toyota I'd buy one!
The only car worth buying IMO.
Haha, you haven't actually driven one have you?
The Toyota quality is a myth. Our 06 Sienna proves that.
As do the 95-00 Tacoma's that Toyota has been silently buying back at upto 150% book value because they didn't properly rust prrof the frames and trucks were literally breaking in half.
Imagine if Ford or GM tried to pull that off. You people would be screaming to have the Exec's heads put up on pikes.
I don't think MIKEMIKE was trying to say they were asking for money from the US, it's the fact that they are asking for money at all. If they truely have been doing so well why can't their profits from previous years hold them over?
Sounds like a bad business model to me if you don't save for a rainy day.
Originally posted by: Skoorb
They've earned it
Not from this Toyota owner they haven't. I'm sooo glad I hesitated on the new tundra and went with a Chevy.
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