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Town clerk: I will not issue marraige licenses

Bateluer

Lifer
Jun 23, 2001
27,733
7
0
http://www.9wsyr.com/news/local/story/Town-clerk-speaks-about-decision-to-not-issue-gay/HZJ-_ZwZe0-yOaDxLV5TFg.cspx

Cayuga County (WSYR-TV) -- The Ledyard Town Clerk is speaking out about her decision to exclude herself from issuing marriage licenses to same sex couples, which has sparked controversy and claims of discrimination and calls for her resignation.

A couple from Florida has now challenged her decision, which could lead to a landmark court battle in the State of New York.

Rose Marie Belforti is a 10-year town clerk and a life-long Christian.

“I take the bible very serious. For me it is the foundation of my own perceptions. So that is my truth,” Rose said.

Rose perceives marriage as a sacred institution between a man and a woman. She recently informed the Town Board she would not be issuing marriage licenses to any couple, straight or gay. The deputy clerk now handles those duties – by appointment only.

After hearing the news, Florida couple Katie Carmichael and Deidre Dibiaggio, who have a home in Cayuga and are looking to get married, put Rose to the test.

"But I honestly thought that if Dee Dee and I were standing in front of her that there is no way this woman was going to break the law and not do that. So I was very disappointed,” explained Katie Carmichael.

Friend Arthur Bellinzoni was with them. He said, “This is a nation which we believe in liberty and justice for all. And there is nothing that speaks about liberty and justice for all except gays and lesbians. It's just blatant discrimination and you can't hide behind a religious cloak on this. She took an oath of office and she has to perform her duties."

Town Supervisor Mark Jordan wouldn't go as far as to say he supports Rose's personal decision. In fact, he would prefer she performed all the duties she's “supposed to.” But, he says she was elected by the people, it's her office and for now he and the board are separating themselves and letting her run it as she sees fit."

"We do want to keep a diverse society. We want to respect each other. So I'm not trying to break the law. I'm not trying to change it so that they can't get that. This is just a personal fight that I have to do for myself,” Rose said.

Many are calling for Belforti to step down. Legal action against her and the town has already been threatened on behalf of that couple.

A group called New Yorkers for Constitutional Freedoms is offering legal support for Belforti, and the town, free of charge.

And while law clearly states that the clerk has to issue marriage licenses to same sex couples, laws are always up for interpretation.

A memo from the state sent to all town and village clerks back in July states: “The town or city clerk must provide a license to an applicant who meets all marriage requirements from New York State. It is a misdemeanor violation if the clerk refuses to do so for any reason.”

Belforti counters with two state laws of her own: One being you can’t discriminate a worker based on their religious beliefs and two; clerks can designate tasks to their deputies, just as she is doing with marriage licenses.


If this goes to court, it will be the first case of its kind in New York.
Hmm. I don't like what this clerk is doing. Same-sex marriage is legal in that state, and if the couple meets the requirements, they should be granted the marriage license. At every private sector job I've worked, not performing your assigned duties is grounds for dismissal. Don't do your job, you're fired. Pretty straightforward. But, this is apparently an elected position, and she's technically not breaking any laws the way she's going about this, be delegating to her supervisors. Load of crap though.
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
30,865
9,688
146
She needs to resign if she cannot perform her duties according to the law. Her beliefs make no difference, either issue the certificate or resign.

The next town election should be interesting.
 
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waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,155
8
81
she needs to resign. if not they need to fire her. she does not get to cherry pick what her job is.
 

Fern

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 30, 2003
26,916
172
106
She needs to resign if she cannot perform her duties according to the law. Her beliefs make no difference, either issue the certificate or resign.
But that's the problem she IS doing her job according to the law.

She's just transferred all marriage license applications to a deputy, which is OK according to law. IDK, maybe she never actually issued any herself anyway. Whenever I go to the courthouse for some business I always deal with some clerk anyway, not the actual 'office holder'.

I realize her views may not be popular, but not sure I see the big deal since everyone's apparently getting their marriage licenses.

Fern
 

CanOWorms

Lifer
Jul 3, 2001
12,414
0
0
What you're seeing is another of the "Old Guard" de-integrating from American society. These kinds of things are becoming much more prevalent in changing times. We need to provide more social services to this demographic so that they can re-integrate.
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,826
82
91
I respect her beliefs.

unfortunately, those same beliefs now render her incapable of doing her job and she should be fired with cause.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,520
0
0
But that's the problem she IS doing her job according to the law.

She's just transferred all marriage license applications to a deputy, which is OK according to law. IDK, maybe she never actually issued any herself anyway. Whenever I go to the courthouse for some business I always deal with some clerk anyway, not the actual 'office holder'.

I realize her views may not be popular, but not sure I see the big deal since everyone's apparently getting their marriage licenses.

Fern
Sure, she's not really standing in the way of people getting their marriage licenses. But there's something to be said for not using an official government position as a platform to preach your personal beliefs. It's one thing if you're in a political position (Congress, state legislature, etc)...but using a non-political government office to push some personal agenda seems wrong to me. If she wants to, as a private citizen, protest about how gays are ruining America, that's her right. But that's NOT her job as town clerk.
 

rchiu

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2002
3,850
0
0
Heh it's more like the gay activists are out to get anyone who doesn't agree with their view, like getting this women fired in this case.

1) She didn't stop anyone from getting married, she just delegated the task to her deputy.

2) Her job as town clerk is not just to issue marriage license, she has her other duty. By not issuing marriage license, she maybe doing more of other duties. Whether she is doing her job as town clerk over all is for her supervisor or people who elected her to the office to decide. And the task of issuing marriage duty is not impacted by her decision.

3) She is not "preaching" her personal belief, it's the activist that's making the huge deal out of this.

In short, she is not doing anything that violated gay right. It's her opinion that gay right people don't like and for that, they are after her. How pathetic.
 

OCGuy

Lifer
Jul 12, 2000
27,225
21
81
As long as she treats everyone equally, there is no law being broken.

This is more like a witch hunt.
 

OCGuy

Lifer
Jul 12, 2000
27,225
21
81
Sure, she's not really standing in the way of people getting their marriage licenses. But there's something to be said for not using an official government position as a platform to preach your personal beliefs. It's one thing if you're in a political position (Congress, state legislature, etc)...but using a non-political government office to push some personal agenda seems wrong to me. If she wants to, as a private citizen, protest about how gays are ruining America, that's her right. But that's NOT her job as town clerk.
I was one of the few people who got off their ass in CA to vote against the ban. But I have to say that this is a witch hunt.

And let's be honest, gay people would rather not have her around them anyway if she is a biggot. Let someone else issue the license.
 

Wordplay

Golden Member
Jun 28, 2010
1,348
1
81
Katie is pretty hot.

A memo from the state sent to all town and village clerks back in July states: “The town or city clerk must provide a license to an applicant who meets all marriage requirements from New York State. It is a misdemeanor violation if the clerk refuses to do so for any reason.”
Well they told her before hand that she must do her duty and she is refusing now. Hit the bricks lady.
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
55,437
3,849
126
I don't see this as any different than a pharmacist who refuses to dispense birth control or the "morning after" pill because of "religious convictions...nor with the Muslim cab drivers who refuse to pick up drunks/bar traffic.

I don't think any of them should be allowed to force their "morals"/religious beliefs on other people..
 

Fern

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 30, 2003
26,916
172
106
Katie is pretty hot.


Well they told her before hand that she must do her duty and she is refusing now. Hit the bricks lady.
She is doing her duty. She is not refusing to issue licenses. Her office is issuing marriage licenses to gays. She is doing what the law says she can - delegate it to one of her employees.

Fern
 

Double Trouble

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
9,276
103
106
Sure, she's not really standing in the way of people getting their marriage licenses. But there's something to be said for not using an official government position as a platform to preach your personal beliefs. It's one thing if you're in a political position (Congress, state legislature, etc)...but using a non-political government office to push some personal agenda seems wrong to me. If she wants to, as a private citizen, protest about how gays are ruining America, that's her right. But that's NOT her job as town clerk.
Like it or not, she is following the letter of the law. She's delegating the duties to a deputy. You can call it "preaching personal beliefs", but how do you start to pick and choose when following the letter law is no longer good enough?

"Yes, you're following the letter of the law, but we don't like your stance on this issue, so you're fired". Unless she's actually breaking the law (by for example not allowing deputy clerks to hand out licenses to gay couples), I see no issue with what she does.
 

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,570
2
0
Well looks like she was looking for attention. And got it. As usual for these types of people. Give a newspaper something they can twist into a catchy headline and you get your 15 minutes.
 

Broheim

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2011
4,592
2
76
Like it or not, she is following the letter of the law. She's delegating the duties to a deputy. You can call it "preaching personal beliefs", but how do you start to pick and choose when following the letter law is no longer good enough?

"Yes, you're following the letter of the law, but we don't like your stance on this issue, so you're fired". Unless she's actually breaking the law (by for example not allowing deputy clerks to hand out licenses to gay couples), I see no issue with what she does.
maybe, maybe not.

it could easily be argued that eventhough she can delegate tasks to her deputy she should still be able to perform them herself...
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
30,865
9,688
146
But that's the problem she IS doing her job according to the law.

She's just transferred all marriage license applications to a deputy, which is OK according to law. IDK, maybe she never actually issued any herself anyway. Whenever I go to the courthouse for some business I always deal with some clerk anyway, not the actual 'office holder'.

I realize her views may not be popular, but not sure I see the big deal since everyone's apparently getting their marriage licenses.

Fern
She is technically allowed to do that, correct. But she should've done it before hand. Now she's put herself out there like that, and it's entirely likely that she won't be re-elected. Too late now, she'll be placed under a microscope.
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
30,865
9,688
146
Like it or not, she is following the letter of the law. She's delegating the duties to a deputy. You can call it "preaching personal beliefs", but how do you start to pick and choose when following the letter law is no longer good enough?

"Yes, you're following the letter of the law, but we don't like your stance on this issue, so you're fired". Unless she's actually breaking the law (by for example not allowing deputy clerks to hand out licenses to gay couples), I see no issue with what she does.
It's not what she's doing, it's how she got there that's the problem. You want and obvious bigot in a government position?
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
30,865
9,688
146
She is doing her duty. She is not refusing to issue licenses. Her office is issuing marriage licenses to gays. She is doing what the law says she can - delegate it to one of her employees.

Fern
You're leaving out the part where she refused to give out the license.
 

Ausm

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
25,215
13
81
404 Separation of church and state not found.

If you have some religious hang up like that it's time to get a different job ;)
 

rchiu

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2002
3,850
0
0
404 Separation of church and state not found.

If you have some religious hang up like that it's time to get a different job ;)
I am sorry but where does it say you cannot hold a public office if you are religious?

She 1) isn't forcing her belief on anyone, 2) still get task done by delegation to her deputy.

So how does her belief affected her office and her duty? Are you saying any religious people shouldn't work in the public office because they don't share the same view point of entire American population?
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
16,503
5,686
136
Another religious bigot who puts their own convictions before of the responsibilities of their job and duty to the people to make a political statement.


Lame as it always is. Lady needs to resign and relegate herself to more appropriate matters, like being a beancounter for some church.
 

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