Total Newb Needs Help

[ineedaname]

!!WARNING!!
This is my first post so don't hate me if its no good.
!!WARNING!!

So I wanna build a new system and I have about $1500 CAD which is about $1300 USD.
I'm using it mostly for gaming and downloading and hopefully will last me a while.
I wanted to go SLI or Crossfire so i could just add another vid card later instead of buying a new system, thinking maybe it'll last longer.
I read some stuff from everywhere and I'm pretty confused so I just based most of the parts off of some website.

Mobo: P5ND2 SLI Delux or P5N32
Processor: Intel P4 640
Vid card: XFX 7800GTX
RAM: 2Gig (2x 1Gig sticks) Crucial DDR2 4200
PSU: Enermax 600w Noisetaker
HDD: Hitachi any good?
DVD-Burner: not sure yet maybe Pioneer?

 

[quackerww]

Build an amd system....

 

[Some1ne]

1. I wouldn't recommend a SLI board under any situation, and I definately wouldn't recommend an SLI board paired with an Intel CPU. AMD chips make a better gaming platform. The "add another card later" upgrade path of SLI really doesn't pan out in the real-world, so you might want to reconsider this option.

2. From what I've read on the subject, the 6xx P4's really don't perform any better than the corresponding 5xx versions. You might be able to save some cash by going with a comparable 5xx chip.

3. The Hitachi drive should be fine.

4. Pioneer DVD burner should also be fine, or also the NEC one, or most any name-brand really.

5. Given the video card you picked out, I would again question your choice of an Intel based system for what appears to be a primarily gaming setup (and if it's not a gaming setup, you in no way need such a powerful video card). You'll get more mileage with AMD for gaming.

 

[ineedaname]

Problem with AMD is it seems expensive and I have no clue what chip would be in the same range as this Intel.

Any suggestions?

 

[Some1ne]

Budget suggestion w/ overclocking: Get a socket 939 3000+ or 3200+ and overclock it.

Budget suggestion w/ no overclocking: Get a socket 939 3500+ or 3700+.

High-end suggestion w/ overclocking: Get an Athlon X2 3800+ and overclock it.

High-end suggestion w/ no overclocking: Get an Athlon X2 4400+.

Edit: and the 3200+ is the AMD chip that should be roughly comparable to the 640.

 

[SlickAU]

Hey Ineedaname,

First of all if its a gaming system you want....NO P4!!!! GO AMD! If you look most benchmarks available on the internet you will find that AMD outperforms Pentium about 70-80% of the time. Also AMD's are much more cheaper than Pentiums.

If you are going to be doing multiple things at once (such as burning DVD's, playing games, listening to music) then i'd recommend an X2 (dual core) AMD.

Currently I have an A64 3200+ Venice, 1GB DDR400 Geil RAM and a Gigabyte 6600GT which runs all the current games perfectly.

However the only thing letting down my system is the video card...i.-e in Battlefield 2, when u turn the graphics up to max the frames drop all the way down!

As for your selection, the Graphics card is KICK ASS, same as the RAM, the ONLY things i would change would be the MOBO and the CPU (Change them to AMD, with an AMD supporting mobo)

Good luck man!

Slick

 

[ineedaname]

Does dual core really help a lot with gaming?
I could be wrong but I heard they don't help much since games don't take advantage of them.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Welcome to AT.

Here's some quick benchmarks to give you a general idea of the performance differences of single core AMDs
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2456&p=6

Some X2s
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2410&p=7
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2484&p=10

(took you to the gaming benchmark pages)

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: ineedaname
Does dual core really help a lot with gaming?
I could be wrong but I heard they don't help much since games don't take advantage of them.

Some games are taking advantage of them to some extent from what I have read, and increasingly in the future more programs will take advantage of dual core.

 

[ineedaname]

Wow that chart was great help thanks!!!
I think i'll go AMD but what would be a better choice Athlon 64 4000+ or X2 3800+
But back to the mobo which one should I get?
Should I do SLI or Crossfire or is it really not necessary?
I figure if it fits in my budget then why not?

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

As for SLI / Crossfire, it doesn't seem to pay off that much in the long run.

For example if someone last year had bought a 6800gt with the intent of adding a second one later, now they have a 6800gt and they have the choice of adding a second 6800gt now for around $275 or they could get a single 7800gt for around $300 and sell their current 6800gt. The single 7800gt outperforms SLI 6800gt cards in many tests.

So my point is that instead of spending extra on an SLI motherboard, a more powerful PSU, and even a second videocard if you do it right away, it seems better in the long run to get a nice fast single videocard now... and then wait until the next generation of cards comes out and get different single card.

On a ~ $1300 US budget, I'm not sure if SLI would be a good plan.

If you're looking to get the best performance possible or are ready to spend $650+ on videocards right away, then I guess... but for something that's budget minded it doesn't seem to make a lot of sense.

 

[ineedaname]

Hmm I see what you're saying and well if that's the case then there still the question of what mobo.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: ineedaname
Hmm I see what you're saying and well if that's the case then there still the question of what mobo.

I'd suggest kind of getting a plan of most parts except CPU and GPU figured out and see how much you have left in the end for whether an SLI solution might be your best bet or not.

Also, dual core really seems like a good bet now. Rather than a 4000+ single core, a 3800+ X2 or a dual core opteron like the 165 would probably be a better bet for you.

There are several nice motherboards out there.
This Epox for example is a good one.

Some info on it and others
http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2465

 

[ineedaname]

7800gts 300
Dvd+-R 100
HDD 100
Ram 70 (kinda bought 1Gig already maybe wasn't that smart)
BOX 80
===========
600

1300 - 600 = 700
Probably lookin at a MOBO for about 100 CPU 400 GPU 100

Well scrappin the SLI idea should I go for X2 3800+ or Opteron 165?
Oh and should I spend a lot on cooling since I probably should OC it?

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: ineedaname
7800gts 300
Dvd+-R 100
HDD 100
Ram 70 (kinda bought 1Gig already maybe wasn't that smart)
BOX 80
===========
600

1300 - 600 = 700
Probably lookin at a MOBO for about 100 CPU 400 GPU 100 <-- did you mean PSU?

Well scrappin the SLI idea should I go for X2 3800+ or Opteron 165?
Oh and should I spend a lot on cooling since I probably should OC it?

A dvd burner shouldn't cost more than $40 or $50.

What kind of ram did you buy? DDR2 is what the Intel you were planning on uses, DDR1 is what AMD is using.

 

[ineedaname]

oh i was planning on buying 2 dvd burners since in the past all the dvd readers i've bought sucked so much at reading.

I bought ddr2 4200

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

How long ago did you buy it and where from?

Do you think you might be able to exchange it for something else?

 

[ineedaname]

It shouldn't be a problem i got it for so cheap i can sell it somewhere else easily.

But yea opteron 165 or x2 3600+?

sry if i'm asking too many questions

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: ineedaname
It shouldn't be a problem i got it for so cheap i can sell it somewhere else easily.

But yea opteron 165 or x2 3600+?

sry if i'm asking too many questions

That's what we're here for.

If you can find an opteron 165 for a good price close to the 3800+, it seems to be a great overclocker.

I'm not really an overclocking expert though, so I'm not going to tell you a definative answer one way or the other.

There's probably plenty of info in this thread (I didn't read it all)
http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview...atid=40&threadid=1727408&enterthread=y

 

[ineedaname]

Thanks a lot lot lot!!!
I think I'll go with the opteron 165 or 170 and then take the rest of this to the overclocking category.

 

[biostud]

If you want more info about gaming and CPU click on the two links in my sig, and remember to read the conclusions

 

[GamerExpress]

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
As for SLI / Crossfire, it doesn't seem to pay off that much in the long run.

For example if someone last year had bought a 6800gt with the intent of adding a second one later, now they have a 6800gt and they have the choice of adding a second 6800gt now for around $275 or they could get a single 7800gt for around $300 and sell their current 6800gt. The single 7800gt outperforms SLI 6800gt cards in many tests.

So my point is that instead of spending extra on an SLI motherboard, a more powerful PSU, and even a second videocard if you do it right away, it seems better in the long run to get a nice fast single videocard now... and then wait until the next generation of cards comes out and get different single card.

On a ~ $1300 US budget, I'm not sure if SLI would be a good plan.

If you're looking to get the best performance possible or are ready to spend $650+ on videocards right away, then I guess... but for something that's budget minded it doesn't seem to make a lot of sense.

QFT, SLI is definately not worth the cost.

 

[Some1ne]

As for SLI / Crossfire, it doesn't seem to pay off that much in the long run.

For example if someone last year had bought a 6800gt with the intent of adding a second one later, now they have a 6800gt and they have the choice of adding a second 6800gt now for around $275 or they could get a single 7800gt for around $300 and sell their current 6800gt. The single 7800gt outperforms SLI 6800gt cards in many tests.

So my point is that instead of spending extra on an SLI motherboard, a more powerful PSU, and even a second videocard if you do it right away, it seems better in the long run to get a nice fast single videocard now... and then wait until the next generation of cards comes out and get different single card.

Exactly.

But yea opteron 165 or x2 3800+?

Either one, the Opteron is rumored to overclock better, and may be available for a slightly cheaper price.

Oh and should I spend a lot on cooling since I probably should OC it?

Nah, typically the stock HSF is sufficient to overclock into the 2.4 to 2.6 GHz range. Going much beyond that, even with improved cooling, can be a bit tricky and/or risky and might not be a good idea unless you have a good amount of experience in this area already. Also there's kind of a law of diminishing returns that kicks in as well, in that you may spend $100+ on an elaborate cooling setup, and only get another 200 MHz on your CPU speed over what you could have gotten with the stock HSF. Not really worth it in my opinion, especially since this is for gaming, and gaming performance depends on the video card far more than it does on the CPU.

Also, I guess it depends on what your timeframe is, but since you already have DDR2 RAM you could wait for socket M2 to come out sometime in 2006. If you want a system now/soon though, or if you don't like the idea of "beta testing" a new CPU platform, then that would probably be a bad idea.

 

[ineedaname]

well i did a bit of searching on the forum and the Opteron 165 seems like the best deal.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: ineedaname
well i did a bit of searching on the forum and the Opteron 165 seems like the best deal.

I hope you can find a good deal on one still.