"Torture" on the Sundace Channel

[randym431]

Sundance had this docu show on torture at Abu Ghraib prison. They got some volunteers to go thru the same torture prisoners at Abu Ghraib experienced. Most, if not all volunteers were for the torture BEFORE their experience. Most all changed their minds afterwards.

It was an interesting docu, but being naked in front of other prisoners or having the head shaved of hair seemed hardly like "torture". One volunteer gave up on the experiment only after bring threatened with being stripped naked in front of the other prisoners (volunteers).

And the guy shaving the head of one of the other "prisoners" was a shaved head himself. Did not look too terrible to me.

All I know on torture is, I can not even begin to imagine the torture those people on the four planes on 9/11/2001 were experiencing after the terrorist took over the plane then stabbing the pilot and some crew and passengers.

Most decent countries would treat prisoners according to the international rules. But when it comes to terrorist, they follow no rules. So is there a difference? I think so.

 

[tommywishbone]

Drugs are bad. Don't use drugs.

 

[ProfJohn]

What is the point of thus documentary? To show that being shaved and naked is humiliating? The people who committed this ?torture? at Abu Ghraib are either in jail or awaiting a trial that will most likely put them in jail.

There is something I don?t understand maybe you guys on the left can help enlighten me on this.

When ever a thread is created about Muslims going crazy and wild etc a bunch of people quickly jump in and say we shouldn?t talk about ?all? Muslims like that, and that only 1% are fanatics etc etc.

But whenever the subject of torture is brought up the same people immediately assume that every solider is involved with torture and every person we capture is being tortured. Why the double standard?

 

[Mardeth]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Why the double standard?

Because you touch yourself at night.

 

[BrownTown]

Originally posted by: randym431
All I know on torture is, I can not even begin to imagine the torture those people on the four planes on 9/11/2001 were experiencing after the terrorist took over the plane then stabbing the pilot and some crew and passengers.

Most decent countries would treat prisoners according to the international rules. But when it comes to terrorist, they follow no rules. So is there a difference? I think so.

The people who committed 9-11 are dead, the people in Abu Gharib are NOT the people who did this, and only a few if any even knew of the plot. Many of these people are just as innocent as those on 9-11, and most of the ones that arent certinally arent responsible for what happened then. You have to take 9-11 are realise that there is a group of people responisble for that, but that group is NOT all muslims, it is NOT even all radical muslims, it is ONLY the people who actually planned or carried out that attack. Just because these people blieve in a very radical form of Islam, or followed the wrong people does not make them responsible for things that other people did.

 

[judasmachine]

"Cake or death?"

"Death please. No, no just kidding, I'll take the cake."

 

[chcarnage]

I haven't seen this docu (sounds a bit like "docutainment") but we know that abuse in Abu Ghraib was both psychological and physical and it went farther than shaving. And a hint to 9/11 doesn't justify that.

Most decent countries would treat prisoners according to the international rules. But when it comes to terrorist, they follow no rules. So is there a difference? I think so.

I think most countries either treat all prisioners according to the Human Rights Convention or fail to provide this standard altogether. The tendency to differentiate between war prisioner rights and normal prisioners has gone some steps farther in the US than in most other countries, in my opinion.

By the way, I've heard some critics that the involvement of private security companies in Abu Ghraib wasn't investigated carefully.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
What is the point of thus documentary? To show that being shaved and naked is humiliating? The people who committed this ?torture? at Abu Ghraib are either in jail or awaiting a trial that will most likely put them in jail.

There is something I don?t understand maybe you guys on the left can help enlighten me on this.

When ever a thread is created about Muslims going crazy and wild etc a bunch of people quickly jump in and say we shouldn?t talk about ?all? Muslims like that, and that only 1% are fanatics etc etc.

But whenever the subject of torture is brought up the same people immediately assume that every solider is involved with torture and every person we capture is being tortured. Why the double standard?

Oh no, I think you have misinterpreted double standards. I expect vile things from terrorists who will kill innocent people for their aims. What makes me what to vomit is when I see the same kind of knee jerk reaction from my fellow Americans come out out of them in response to this terrorism. Terrorists I can handle. My sister and brother as terrorists makes me sick to my stomach. My sister and brother have had all the finest opportunities and education and it's profoundly disappointing to discover they too are just pigs. Real Americans, the kind that founded this country and created the highest ideals ever seen on the planet are a dying breed. We are surrounded now by pigs and cowards who will do anything to save their worthless lives and continue with their shopping. The great liberal bastion, America, has become overrun by rats.

 

[International Machine Consortium]

Originally posted by: randym431
Sundance had this docu show on torture at Abu Ghraib prison. They got some volunteers to go thru the same torture prisoners at Abu Ghraib experienced. Most, if not all volunteers were for the torture BEFORE their experience. Most all changed their minds afterwards.

It was an interesting docu, but being naked in front of other prisoners or having the head shaved of hair seemed hardly like "torture". One volunteer gave up on the experiment only after bring threatened with being stripped naked in front of the other prisoners (volunteers).

And the guy shaving the head of one of the other "prisoners" was a shaved head himself. Did not look too terrible to me.

All I know on torture is, I can not even begin to imagine the torture those people on the four planes on 9/11/2001 were experiencing after the terrorist took over the plane then stabbing the pilot and some crew and passengers.

Most decent countries would treat prisoners according to the international rules. But when it comes to terrorist, they follow no rules. So is there a difference? I think so.

Huh? Trust me, you would crap yourself subjected to the stuff those (not necessarily guilty) Iraqis were subjected to. I have personal knowledge on the subject, via U.S. military training. Your attempt to link 9/11 with Abu Ghraib is telling.... Bush tries to pull that crap all the time.
The basic problem I have with Abu Ghraib is that we were supposed to be bringing "FREEDOM" and "DEEEMOCRACY" to the Eye rakis, but instead we burst into their homes, drag them out in front of their wives and children and torture them, often with no evidence of their involvement in any crime. It's just another in a long line of Republican fvck ups.

 

[CSMR]

Originally posted by: randym431
Sundance had this docu show on torture at Abu Ghraib prison. They got some volunteers to go thru the same torture prisoners at Abu Ghraib experienced. Most, if not all volunteers were for the torture BEFORE their experience. Most all changed their minds afterwards.

It was an interesting docu, but being naked in front of other prisoners or having the head shaved of hair seemed hardly like "torture". One volunteer gave up on the experiment only after bring threatened with being stripped naked in front of the other prisoners (volunteers).

And the guy shaving the head of one of the other "prisoners" was a shaved head himself. Did not look too terrible to me.

All I know on torture is, I can not even begin to imagine the torture those people on the four planes on 9/11/2001 were experiencing after the terrorist took over the plane then stabbing the pilot and some crew and passengers.

Most decent countries would treat prisoners according to the international rules. But when it comes to terrorist, they follow no rules. So is there a difference? I think so.

What is the point of this. I don't know who approves of the torture at this prison. They must have got some very strange types to be for it at first.
Torturing of terrorist suspects for information is quite another thing.

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: randym431
Sundance had this docu show on torture at Abu Ghraib prison. They got some volunteers to go thru the same torture prisoners at Abu Ghraib experienced. Most, if not all volunteers were for the torture BEFORE their experience. Most all changed their minds afterwards.

It was an interesting docu, but being naked in front of other prisoners or having the head shaved of hair seemed hardly like "torture". One volunteer gave up on the experiment only after bring threatened with being stripped naked in front of the other prisoners (volunteers).

And the guy shaving the head of one of the other "prisoners" was a shaved head himself. Did not look too terrible to me.

All I know on torture is, I can not even begin to imagine the torture those people on the four planes on 9/11/2001 were experiencing after the terrorist took over the plane then stabbing the pilot and some crew and passengers.

Most decent countries would treat prisoners according to the international rules. But when it comes to terrorist, they follow no rules. So is there a difference? I think so.

I'v seen that documentary, shown on tv4 on england if I remember correctly

But judging by your comments I think you stopped watching after 10 minutes

 

[mOeeOm]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
What is the point of thus documentary? To show that being shaved and naked is humiliating? The people who committed this ?torture? at Abu Ghraib are either in jail or awaiting a trial that will most likely put them in jail.

There is something I don?t understand maybe you guys on the left can help enlighten me on this.

When ever a thread is created about Muslims going crazy and wild etc a bunch of people quickly jump in and say we shouldn?t talk about ?all? Muslims like that, and that only 1% are fanatics etc etc.

But whenever the subject of torture is brought up the same people immediately assume that every solider is involved with torture and every person we capture is being tortured. Why the double standard?

Oh no, I think you have misinterpreted double standards. I expect vile things from terrorists who will kill innocent people for their aims. What makes me what to vomit is when I see the same kind of knee jerk reaction from my fellow Americans come out out of them in response to this terrorism. Terrorists I can handle. My sister and brother as terrorists makes me sick to my stomach. My sister and brother have had all the finest opportunities and education and it's profoundly disappointing to discover they too are just pigs. Real Americans, the kind that founded this country and created the highest ideals ever seen on the planet are a dying breed. We are surrounded now by pigs and cowards who will do anything to save their worthless lives and continue with their shopping. The great liberal bastion, America, has become overrun by rats.

You are a real winner!

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
What is the point of thus documentary? To show that being shaved and naked is humiliating? The people who committed this ?torture? at Abu Ghraib are either in jail or awaiting a trial that will most likely put them in jail.

There is something I don?t understand maybe you guys on the left can help enlighten me on this.

When ever a thread is created about Muslims going crazy and wild etc a bunch of people quickly jump in and say we shouldn?t talk about ?all? Muslims like that, and that only 1% are fanatics etc etc.

But whenever the subject of torture is brought up the same people immediately assume that every solider is involved with torture and every person we capture is being tortured. Why the double standard?

The point of this documentary was to show how "torture" is in those prisons using real people who support the methoods which are used. Methoods which have all been approved by the US gov.

But not like it matters to you. You are just here on a PR campaign.

 

[dahunan]

Why aren't Rumsfeld and Gonzalez and that little pig who ran Gitmo locked up.. eh ProfJongIll?

Watch the channel you are afraid of
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/torture/view/

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
What is the point of thus documentary? To show that being shaved and naked is humiliating? The people who committed this ?torture? at Abu Ghraib are either in jail or awaiting a trial that will most likely put them in jail.

There is something I don?t understand maybe you guys on the left can help enlighten me on this.

When ever a thread is created about Muslims going crazy and wild etc a bunch of people quickly jump in and say we shouldn?t talk about ?all? Muslims like that, and that only 1% are fanatics etc etc.

But whenever the subject of torture is brought up the same people immediately assume that every solider is involved with torture and every person we capture is being tortured. Why the double standard?

The point of this documentary was to show how "torture" is in those prisons using real people who support the methoods which are used. Methoods which have all been approved by the US gov.

But not like it matters to you. You are just here on a PR campaign.

so were the makers of this "torture documentary," so what's your point?

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
What is the point of thus documentary? To show that being shaved and naked is humiliating? The people who committed this ?torture? at Abu Ghraib are either in jail or awaiting a trial that will most likely put them in jail.

There is something I don?t understand maybe you guys on the left can help enlighten me on this.

When ever a thread is created about Muslims going crazy and wild etc a bunch of people quickly jump in and say we shouldn?t talk about ?all? Muslims like that, and that only 1% are fanatics etc etc.

But whenever the subject of torture is brought up the same people immediately assume that every solider is involved with torture and every person we capture is being tortured. Why the double standard?

The point of this documentary was to show how "torture" is in those prisons using real people who support the methoods which are used. Methoods which have all been approved by the US gov.

But not like it matters to you. You are just here on a PR campaign.

so were the makers of this "torture documentary," so what's your point?

did you really fail to see my point? fail english or something?

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
But whenever the subject of torture is brought up the same people immediately assume that every solider is involved with torture and every person we capture is being tortured. Why the double standard?

Because you enjoy flailing away at your own strawmen?

 

[blackangst1]

I am for torture personally. The bottom line is if someone has intimate knowledge of the inner workings of a terrorist organization, we certainly arent going to get info by having them sip a nice hot cup of Earl Grey. It's a tough choice, but one that must be made, IMHO.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

This thread is an interesting example of how a completely incoherent OP frequently leads to completely incoherent discussion.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: DonVito
This thread is an interesting example of how a completely incoherent OP frequently leads to completely incoherent discussion.

It sure is. I noticed how much you have contributed to it

Just teasing you man

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: DonVito
This thread is an interesting example of how a completely incoherent OP frequently leads to completely incoherent discussion.

It sure is. I noticed how much you have contributed to it

Just teasing you man

Yeah, my post was pretty unhelpful, but in general this thread is typical of the scads of other torture threads posted in recent weeks. As usual, palehorse and profjohn are here to say that, in spite of the dozens of detainees killed during interrogation by US forces, this either isn't torture, or it wasn't committed by "certified interrogators," or it was justified. Ultimately I don't find the discussion all that productive.

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: DonVito

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: DonVito
This thread is an interesting example of how a completely incoherent OP frequently leads to completely incoherent discussion.

It sure is. I noticed how much you have contributed to it

Just teasing you man

Yeah, my post was pretty unhelpful, but in general this thread is typical of the scads of other torture threads posted in recent weeks. As usual, palehorse and profjohn are here to say that, in spite of the dozens of detainees killed during interrogation by US forces, this either isn't torture, or it wasn't committed by "certified interrogators," or it was justified. Ultimately I don't find the discussion all that productive.

so true

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: DonVito

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: DonVito
This thread is an interesting example of how a completely incoherent OP frequently leads to completely incoherent discussion.

It sure is. I noticed how much you have contributed to it

Just teasing you man

Yeah, my post was pretty unhelpful, but in general this thread is typical of the scads of other torture threads posted in recent weeks. As usual, palehorse and profjohn are here to say that, in spite of the dozens of detainees killed during interrogation by US forces, this either isn't torture, or it wasn't committed by "certified interrogators," or it was justified. Ultimately I don't find the discussion all that productive.

You seem to misunderstand me Don.
If someone was "killed" by an American during torture or due to other ill treatment then that should be looked on as a crime. I do not condone, and have never condoned the killing of people in that manner, innocent or guilty.

Where I disagree with you is at the definition of torture. I think placing someone in a cold room and making them listen to loud music is ok, you don't. I am not sure about water boarding, sounds pretty scary, but I understand the army is getting rid of it so that is most likely a good idea. I am for harsh interrogation, but not violent interrogation.
If harsh interrogation will save the lives of innocent Americans then we need to take that into consideration.

I see where it looks like Bush and congress are going to compromise on the torture bill, I would say that is a good thing.