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Toronto Casino Rejected

JoetheLion

Senior member
Nov 8, 2012
394
0
0
"Toronto city council has turned down Casino Toronto, a project that polarized the city, after a year-long debate. While one side saw an attractive opportunity to increase government revenue and new jobs, the other saw a threat that would eventually increase poverty, gambling problems, and crime. The council also turned down plans to expand the gambling floor at Woodbine Racetrack. Nevertheless, the year-long discussion that cost the city more than $370,000 still has not met its end, as mayor Rob Ford and his councillor brother Doug informed on June 9 that they want council to revisit the Woodbine casino debate."

Srsly? So much money just for some consultations?
This looks like a fraud to me.

"
The whole process of deciding required $313,000 in consultant costs to three consulting firms — Ernst & Young, DPRA, and Environics — and $57,100 in public consultation costs, encompassing $36,000 in advertising, $12,200 for translation services, and $2,800 for room rentals."
source

Anyway I'm really glad that the casino isn't happening. They may say that it opens up new job opportunities, but on the other hand it would took more money from the people who are desperate or stupid enough to lose it there...

 
Last edited by a moderator:

Ventanni

Golden Member
Jul 25, 2011
1,421
127
106
Here in Tampa, we only have 1 casino, the Hard Rock, and since it's actually on an indian reservation, it's not really a widespread thing. I mean, our area isn't "defined" by the casino. But every time I've gone in there, the only "jobs" I see are bartending and what appear to be low wage entry level positions. Obviously there's millions in revenue flowing through that place, so a few people are probably making really good money, but I just don't see it as a high quality job providing industry.

Has there ever been a study regarding the mental health of an area and the jobs that are available? How "happy" are the individuals who live in Las Vegas, Reno, or Atlantic City?
 

Murloc

Diamond Member
Jun 24, 2008
5,373
61
91
here there are 4 casinos in my area, even though there's only 340k people. Many customers are chinese and italian though, and this is a touristic area too.
They don't define the city or job market at all.
I think they don't do anything bad either because for example in Italy they're banned and gambling there is a much bigger problem regardless, they have slot machine rooms everywhere, even in the train station, and kiosks have a bigger area dedicated to lotteries.
So I prefer casinos, at least some people get employed and it brings tax revenue.

I don't understand opposition to casinos when gamblers have other ways to gamble. Especially in america where you can gamble on races.
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,795
351
126
Here in Tampa, we only have 1 casino, the Hard Rock, and since it's actually on an indian reservation, it's not really a widespread thing. I mean, our area isn't "defined" by the casino. But every time I've gone in there, the only "jobs" I see are bartending and what appear to be low wage entry level positions. Obviously there's millions in revenue flowing through that place, so a few people are probably making really good money, but I just don't see it as a high quality job providing industry.

Has there ever been a study regarding the mental health of an area and the jobs that are available? How "happy" are the individuals who live in Las Vegas, Reno, or Atlantic City?
Don't forget, there are plenty of other locations with a single casino, or perhaps two or three.

We in Ohio voted to add them a few years back. We have four in the state. Detroit has some (ok, terrible example :p), Windsor, ON (Canada) has some.
 

richardycc

Diamond Member
Apr 29, 2001
5,720
1
81
Toronto is such a vibrant city, they don't really need a casino there. People can always drive less than 2hrs to the 3 in Niagara falls area.
 

StrangerGuy

Diamond Member
May 9, 2004
8,443
124
106
There are deep structural issues regarding poverty, but lose everything in gambling because of lack of any self responsibility is not one of them.
 

Imp

Lifer
Feb 8, 2000
18,833
183
106
FYI: There are two MASSIVE casinos in small towns about a 1 to 1.5 hour drive east and north of Toronto, respectively. Another big one, but smaller, is about 1.5 hours to the west.

There's also already a horse racing track inside the city plus all your regular lottery games.

All of those towns don't have much going for them (Niagara Falls, Orillia, Flamborough Downs), so "more jobs" and "benefit to city" = lol.
 

Kntx

Platinum Member
Dec 11, 2000
2,271
0
71
Also note the ex has a casino during the summer months. It's not advertised too much, but it is there!
 

Eug

Lifer
Mar 11, 2000
23,015
536
126
Here in Tampa, we only have 1 casino, the Hard Rock, and since it's actually on an indian reservation, it's not really a widespread thing. I mean, our area isn't "defined" by the casino. But every time I've gone in there, the only "jobs" I see are bartending and what appear to be low wage entry level positions. Obviously there's millions in revenue flowing through that place, so a few people are probably making really good money, but I just don't see it as a high quality job providing industry.

Has there ever been a study regarding the mental health of an area and the jobs that are available? How "happy" are the individuals who live in Las Vegas, Reno, or Atlantic City?
Toronto is not Las Vegas. It's not built around gambling. This would be an entertainment complex in a big city with lots more to offer.

Furthermore, the "casino" isn't just some low end "casino". It would have been a huge multi-Billion dollar tourist destination with hotels and restaurants, etc.

While the concept of casino per se doesn't always appeal to me, this would have been a much more wide-ranging project and I could definitely see the positives there. Unfortunately, this was essentially nixed by our provincial government, because they wouldn't allow the city to negotiate the financial terms independently. The money coming to the city on a percentage basis would have been higher than say a smaller city like Ottawa or Niagara Falls might have been able to negotiate, and the province said that wasn't fair, so they blocked the negotiations.

I for one am disappointed that we couldn't move forward with casino negotiations.

Srsly? So much money just for some consultations?
This looks like a fraud to me.

"The whole process of deciding required $313,000 in consultant costs to three consulting firms — Ernst & Young, DPRA, and Environics — and $57,100 in public consultation costs, encompassing $36,000 in advertising, $12,200 for translation services, and $2,800 for room rentals."
source
I hope you're not serious, but I suspect you are. You can't just get Aunt Betty to do some quick calculations for $99.99 when you're talking about a multi-billion dollar project. That's "billion" with a "b".
 
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JoetheLion

Senior member
Nov 8, 2012
394
0
0
Toronto is not Las Vegas. It's not built around gambling. This would be an entertainment complex in a big city with lots more to offer.

Furthermore, the "casino" isn't just some low end "casino". It would have been a huge multi-Billion dollar tourist destination with hotels and restaurants, etc.

While the concept of casino per se doesn't always appeal to me, this would have been a much more wide-ranging project and I could definitely see the positives there. Unfortunately, this was essentially nixed by our provincial government, because they wouldn't allow the city to negotiate the financial terms independently. The money coming to the city on a percentage basis would have been higher than say a smaller city like Ottawa or Niagara Falls might have been able to negotiate, and the province said that wasn't fair, so they blocked the negotiations.

I for one am disappointed that we couldn't move forward with casino negotiations.


I hope you're not serious, but I suspect you are. You can't just get Aunt Betty to do some quick calculations for $99.99 when you're talking about a multi-billion dollar project. That's "billion" with a "b".
I didn't say that I want some Aunt Betty. Opposite extreme is far from a good example. I still think that it was overpriced.
 

Grooveriding

Diamond Member
Dec 25, 2008
9,080
1,199
126
Good riddance, if someone here wants to set fire to their money they can drive down to Niagara Falls or fly to Vegas.

It was nothing more than an attempt at a cash-grab on one of the wealthiest cities in the world that would of mainly sucked money out of those least able to lose it.
 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,583
431
126
I would rather see Ontario Place turned into a year-round park with free admission a la Central Park. I really thought that they'd compromise by upgrading the Woodbine Racetrack facilities with a casino instead.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,599
5
0
For those wondering about salaries - here is a rough comparison to a mid end casino in Vegas.
Dealers $35-60K (70% is tip based)
Average
  • 4 dealers/ active table game
  • 16 / active craps table
Floor Managers $60K+ (6+)
Slot Techs $45k (6 /100 machines)
Back office IT - same with any mid size business ($40-90K/person)

So there is a min of $4M in salaries for the worker bees alone
 

Orignal Earl

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2005
8,059
55
86
here there are 4 casinos in my area, even though there's only 340k people. Many customers are chinese and italian though, and this is a touristic area too.
They don't define the city or job market at all.
I think they don't do anything bad either because for example in Italy they're banned and gambling there is a much bigger problem regardless, they have slot machine rooms everywhere, even in the train station, and kiosks have a bigger area dedicated to lotteries.
So I prefer casinos, at least some people get employed and it brings tax revenue.

I don't understand opposition to casinos when gamblers have other ways to gamble. Especially in america where you can gamble on races.
Faith leaders unite to oppose Toronto casino

The Toronto Board of Rabbis, along with other groups of GTA faith leaders, has spoken out against the proposed Toronto casino.

“We are convinced that casinos contribute to family breakdown, depression, addiction, bankruptcies and crime,” the document stated.
http://www.cjnews.com/node/105135
 
Nov 8, 2012
18,945
4,091
136
"Toronto city council has turned down Casino Toronto, a project that polarized the city, after a year-long debate. While one side saw an attractive opportunity to increase government revenue and new jobs, the other saw a threat that would eventually increase poverty, gambling problems, and crime. The council also turned down plans to expand the gambling floor at Woodbine Racetrack. Nevertheless, the year-long discussion that cost the city more than $370,000 still has not met its end, as mayor Rob Ford and his councillor brother Doug informed on June 9 that they want council to revisit the Woodbine casino debate."

Srsly? So much money just for some consultations?
This looks like a fraud to me.

"
The whole process of deciding required $313,000 in consultant costs to three consulting firms — Ernst & Young, DPRA, and Environics — and $57,100 in public consultation costs, encompassing $36,000 in advertising, $12,200 for translation services, and $2,800 for room rentals."
source

Anyway I'm really glad that the casino isn't happening. They may say that it opens up new job opportunities, but on the other hand it would took more money from the people who are desperate or stupid enough to lose it there...

You're an idiot. Casino's are more of a tourist site than anything. States can go right ahead and fuck themselves with a vase if tossing away $50 worth of lottery tickets weekly is A-OK, because thats not gambling amirite?
 

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