Torn between Laptop and Prime

[Caat]

Dear All,

I am hoping someone out there can help me with a conundrum.

I have a fully fledged desktop PC which I built myself a few years ago. It’s due for upgrade really (and in fact I posted on these forums for advice about that [very helpful]), but I stuck in a second hand QX6700 and the extra two cores have extended the life of the machine a bit.

Anyway, the primary function of the desktop is photo editing using Lightroom and gaming – not intense gaming though (I have a 1Gb 5770). I spend more and more time using my Mum’s Macbook Pro to surf the web etc and I really need a machine of my own.

I am kind of stuck between two fences: the Lenovo X121e (either with an E450 or an i3 [i3 ~£30 more]) and the Transformer Prime. I appreciate that these two are quite different!!

What I would like to do:

- Web surfing
- BBC iPlayer
- Word processing (a fair amount, although I have a good tolerance not quite brilliant keyboards)
- Light photo editing using Lightroom if possible (obviously only applicable on a laptop)

What I don’t want:

- A 15.6 inch or bigger machine. I am more after something between 11 and 14 inches.

The Lenovo, or in fact any laptop, will generally be much better at the above than the Prime (especially if I spec it with an i3). However the Prime would excel as a photo-viewer/browser and is a more convenient machine for web use. It’s screen will be better than any laptop in that price range as well as it’s battery life. I think the keyboard dock would suffice for my word processing needs…

My main question is how well the Prime would handle viewing 14.6 mp 10mb jpeg photographs. It seems to perform well on smaller images but I am aware that full resolution photographs might be another matter. I am interested in how smoothly it will allow zooming into and scrolling between images. Photography is my main hobby and some of my stuff can be seen here: www.pentaxphotogallery.com/charleycoleman so the photo viewing potential of the Prime is of great interest. As is it's screen quality.

However the main problem I face is budget. I’m in the UK and ideally don’t want to spend any more £400. The Lenovo comes under that in both E450 and i3 configurations but the Prime is much pricier at £499.

I’d be very grateful for any advice.

 

[beginner99]

IMHO forget the prime and also get the i3 version. Tablets are a useless hype. if you do anything that is not plain consuming, then the tablet is useless. Even writing forum posts is already annoying with tablets.
Also for coach surfing a latop is more comfy as you don't need to constantly hold the full weight of the device, it is on your lap.

I always complained about 1366x768. Yeah 16:10 would be better but on small devices 13" or smaller higher resolution will be problematic unless u have hawk eyes. Just put windows taskbar to side instead of bottom. helps a lot.

 

[Tom]

Why do you think the screen is better on the Prime ? 1280x800 ?

I see tablets as a bit of a luxury item, not a good substitute for a laptop. Since you're aware how convenient laptops are from using your Mum's, I think you'll be a lot happier with the Lenovo.

I haven't used them all, but the only tablet I think is worth having is the ipad and that's partly because it's a way into the incredible software library that Apple has. And it's just incredibly polished and fun to use.

 

[Caat]

Why do you think the screen is better on the Prime ? 1280x800 ?

Because it's an IPS based display whereas (I am assuming) the Lenovo is a TN.

I see tablets as a bit of a luxury item, not a good substitute for a laptop. Since you're aware how convenient laptops are from using your Mum's, I think you'll be a lot happier with the Lenovo.

I haven't used them all, but the only tablet I think is worth having is the ipad and that's partly because it's a way into the incredible software library that Apple has. And it's just incredibly polished and fun to use.

Well that is what is putting me off the Prime - it's very expensive and a luxury choice. I could spec out the X121e with 64Gb SSD, 8Gb RAM and a 3G wireless card for nearly the same price if I wanted to.

 

[Caat]

IMHO forget the prime and also get the i3 version. Tablets are a useless hype. if you do anything that is not plain consuming, then the tablet is useless. Even writing forum posts is already annoying with tablets.
Also for coach surfing a latop is more comfy as you don't need to constantly hold the full weight of the device, it is on your lap.

I always complained about 1366x768. Yeah 16:10 would be better but on small devices 13" or smaller higher resolution will be problematic unless u have hawk eyes. Just put windows taskbar to side instead of bottom. helps a lot.

Thanks for the advice re: the task bar

 

[rabbitz]

The transformer looks good but honestly it is a pain to use... I can't really point out one major flaw of the machine though; it is the sum of a thousand minor annoyances that really killed its appeal.

1) You can only have one browser tab active at a time.... if you want to listen to music in one tab (youtube, grooveshark etc...) and browse at the same time.... you can't do that

2) Keyboard dock is a bit flawed... I mean sure it boosts the battery life like crazy and is useful as a physical keyboard but, for me anyway, it is TOO good and I would just end up leaving it in laptop form all the time. Which is when I realize that I just paid a lot of money for a little laptop that uses a gimped tablet os.

3) To add to the above point, the dock is really an odd form factor... if you want to carry the dock/tablet separately, the dock has this little bit that sticks up (where you plug in the tablet) and makes it hard to carry. Only solution is to carry them both together, which reinforces my point that you will never take them apart

4) Now, the screen is good I can't argue with that... but what use is a good screen attached to a device with reduced functionality? You aren't going to use the transformer to work on photos anyway so I'm guessing it will only be for showing them? It might work as a portable image previewer so you can see your photos immediately after taking them but remember you are paying a big premium for the transformer.

5) Good battery life... Ok I'll give it that. Personally to me it just means I can charge it once every other day instead of once a day but I can see how it might be useful.

6) Copying and pasting text is a chore. Touchpad doesn't really add any pointer functionality, just acts as a proxy for your finger on the screen.

7) No good way to play videos/music.

Now, keep in mind that I mainly used it as a netbook replacement for taking notes in class - what doesn't work for me might work for you. Also, I had the transformer and not the prime so they might have fixed some issues since then.

Eventually it became a game playing device exclusively so I just sold it and bought a cheap used laptop and I haven't been happier (well... I was offered more than I bought it for so that might have been part of it xD )

If any Asus people are reading this, I have a brilliant idea for the next transformer: Add some bluetooth hardware to the keyboard so that you can use the keyboard wirelessly. Would have helped a lot so that I wouldn't need to attach the keyboard to do a little typing and then pull it off again so that I can feel like I am getting my money's worth of the form factor =P

 

[dma0991]

I would still go with a decent laptop or a netbook. Tablets has its place but never a replacement for laptops. It is a pain to type a whole lot with a touch screen interface. The touchscreen keyboard is not as forgiving and you can easily make more mistakes than a regular keyboard. Although the Prime does come with a dock, it is still a hassle and you can expect the quality of the keypad is subpar.

A laptop/netbook is just more versatile in its ability do more than what a tablet could at the expense of its form factor, weight and battery life. I'd recommend a tablet only if you're doing some light browsing, viewing images, watching videos, viewing documents (not compose) and simple tasks.

 

[Caat]

The transformer looks good but honestly it is a pain to use... I can't really point out one major flaw of the machine though; it is the sum of a thousand minor annoyances that really killed its appeal.

1) You can only have one browser tab active at a time.... if you want to listen to music in one tab (youtube, grooveshark etc...) and browse at the same time.... you can't do that

2) Keyboard dock is a bit flawed... I mean sure it boosts the battery life like crazy and is useful as a physical keyboard but, for me anyway, it is TOO good and I would just end up leaving it in laptop form all the time. Which is when I realize that I just paid a lot of money for a little laptop that uses a gimped tablet os.

3) To add to the above point, the dock is really an odd form factor... if you want to carry the dock/tablet separately, the dock has this little bit that sticks up (where you plug in the tablet) and makes it hard to carry. Only solution is to carry them both together, which reinforces my point that you will never take them apart

4) Now, the screen is good I can't argue with that... but what use is a good screen attached to a device with reduced functionality? You aren't going to use the transformer to work on photos anyway so I'm guessing it will only be for showing them? It might work as a portable image previewer so you can see your photos immediately after taking them but remember you are paying a big premium for the transformer.

5) Good battery life... Ok I'll give it that. Personally to me it just means I can charge it once every other day instead of once a day but I can see how it might be useful.

6) Copying and pasting text is a chore. Touchpad doesn't really add any pointer functionality, just acts as a proxy for your finger on the screen.

7) No good way to play videos/music.

Now, keep in mind that I mainly used it as a netbook replacement for taking notes in class - what doesn't work for me might work for you. Also, I had the transformer and not the prime so they might have fixed some issues since then.

Eventually it became a game playing device exclusively so I just sold it and bought a cheap used laptop and I haven't been happier (well... I was offered more than I bought it for so that might have been part of it xD )

If any Asus people are reading this, I have a brilliant idea for the next transformer: Add some bluetooth hardware to the keyboard so that you can use the keyboard wirelessly. Would have helped a lot so that I wouldn't need to attach the keyboard to do a little typing and then pull it off again so that I can feel like I am getting my money's worth of the form factor =P

Thanks, that's really helpful.

 

[Caat]

I would still go with a decent laptop or a netbook. Tablets has its place but never a replacement for laptops. It is a pain to type a whole lot with a touch screen interface. The touchscreen keyboard is not as forgiving and you can easily make more mistakes than a regular keyboard. Although the Prime does come with a dock, it is still a hassle and you can expect the quality of the keypad is subpar.

A laptop/netbook is just more versatile in its ability do more than what a tablet could at the expense of its form factor, weight and battery life. I'd recommend a tablet only if you're doing some light browsing, viewing images, watching videos, viewing documents (not compose) and simple tasks.

You're probably right. The trouble is that it's very hard to find a half decent machine between 11 and 13 inches that isn't really expensive in the UK. If you go up to 15.6 you have many more options, but that's just a bit too big for me.

 

[dma0991]

You're probably right. The trouble is that it's very hard to find a half decent machine between 11 and 13 inches that isn't really expensive in the UK. If you go up to 15.6 you have many more options, but that's just a bit too big for me.

I would go for the 14" category which should have just as many choices compared to the 15.6". I too find my current 15.6" laptop screen could be too big at times so my next laptop would be a 14", just the right size and I don't need the keypad that comes with most 15.6". Try looking for the E-450 or a Core i3 from various brands, I'm sure there are 14" that would fit the bill.

 

[beginner99]

You're probably right. The trouble is that it's very hard to find a half decent machine between 11 and 13 inches that isn't really expensive in the UK. If you go up to 15.6 you have many more options, but that's just a bit too big for me.

Here it's expensive to but currently the have the Samsung series 9 for sale at about £760. that's a pretty good price IMHO.
I can recommend the thinkpad X220 which has an option for IPS screen. However i only bought it due to student rebate. else it is just too expensive, like £1380...

Or just buy any laptop in that size and replace the hdd with an ssd and you will have a very responsive laptop.

 

[rabbitz]

I would go for the 14" category which should have just as many choices compared to the 15.6". I too find my current 15.6" laptop screen could be too big at times so my next laptop would be a 14", just the right size and I don't need the keypad that comes with most 15.6". Try looking for the E-450 or a Core i3 from various brands, I'm sure there are 14" that would fit the bill.

I think one of the problems with laptops in general is that it is near impossible to have a higher-resolution, higher-gamut, possibly-ips screen on any laptop under $750. It's not that the screens are crazy expensive or anything, just that manufacturers see specs as a higher priority for people than screen quality so, strangely enough, you will almost NEVER see an ips panel paired with a relatively low power laptop. I mean, the i3-2310m / i3-2330m is a 'good enough' processor for a lot of people and yet no one has thought to pair it with a 900p or 1080p screen with higher-than-average gamut. Then again, I guess the we, as consumers, are partly to blame for being mostly uninformed and/or impartial to screen quality despite it being the one thing we will be staring at and unlikely to replace for the entire duration of laptop ownership.

Wouldn't it sound nice though? Cheaper build quality laptop with low-power specs in a small form factor but with a decent screen. I think acer is on the right track with the 13'' timelinex.. good battery life, small form factor, good price (I think the i3 retails for $500 - $600ish?). They could take out the gt540m and replace it with a nice 1600x900 or even 1920x1080 wide gamut display (I'm guessing costs are somewhat the same... around here dell offers the 1080 fhd screen upgrade for +150 and the gt525 -> gt540 upgrade for +100) and it would be perfect for me. Sony might have a laptop like that, but I have never bothered looking up their overpriced laptops.

 

[dma0991]

It's not that the screens are crazy expensive or anything, just that manufacturers see specs as a higher priority for people than screen quality so, strangely enough, you will almost NEVER see an ips panel paired with a relatively low power laptop.

I think there has to be a change sooner or later, else laptops are going to fall behind in terms of display quality. The iPad 3 is supposed to be out with a retina display grade resolution soon and I'm pretty sure that Android based devices will follow suit pretty soon. Laptops should be the next to offer this, especially when Intel is pushing for 4K resolution with their Ivy Bridge GPUs.

TN panels should just be phased out. The colours on my TN panel laptop looks terrible when compared side by side with my Dell U2311H IPS monitor and the IPS on my iPod Touch. I'm willing to pay for the next laptop with a 1050P, 16:10, IPS monitor regardless of screen size. The switch may cost the manufacturers and consumers a bit initially but the prices should drop and normalize to TN level prices after a few years.

 

[dawza]

Others have covered the main points, and it's quite clear that the consensus is to go with a proper PC instead of a tablet. I agree with this, especially if you intend to do anything more than browse the web and consume media.

The points about portability, battery life, and screen quality are all valid and argue in favor of a tablet. Nonetheless, all of those benefits will be forgotten when you invariably become frustrated by your inability to perform a simple task on a tablet. This could be anything from copying/pasting to opening a file type to being limited by the touch interface.

To expand on that latter point: I have a convertible tablet PC (X200T) that I rotate into tablet mode for two purposes: writing notes in meetings (blends in with others using pen and paper and therefore keeps me from being "that guy" who is clicking away with his face hidden behind a notebook screen) and viewing select documents in portrait mode. So, even with a full-fledged PC where I can use the touch interface, and have all of the resources available to me to do work, the usage scenarios where this is advantageous are quite limited.

One interesting observation I have made from the BlackBerry Playbook app store-- a native Windows RDP app was recently released that costs $7. It's been selling quite well, and users are very happy to pay this price. It says something when end users will cough up for a tablet app that allows them to use said tablet as a remote to control PCs. I'm one of those end users, and will admit that even if the app cost $15, I'd still purchase it. I also confess that my tablet purchase was an indulgence at best, and an admission of being too lazy to get off of the couch to walk 10 steps to my workstation and/or notebook(s) while watching a show (on my HTPC, which I control with my tablet so I do not have to lean forward and pick up my wireless KB/mouse).

 

[Puddle Jumper]

I think there has to be a change sooner or later, else laptops are going to fall behind in terms of display quality. The iPad 3 is supposed to be out with a retina display grade resolution soon and I'm pretty sure that Android based devices will follow suit pretty soon. Laptops should be the next to offer this, especially when Intel is pushing for 4K resolution with their Ivy Bridge GPUs.

TN panels should just be phased out. The colours on my TN panel laptop looks terrible when compared side by side with my Dell U2311H IPS monitor and the IPS on my iPod Touch. I'm willing to pay for the next laptop with a 1050P, 16:10, IPS monitor regardless of screen size. The switch may cost the manufacturers and consumers a bit initially but the prices should drop and normalize to TN level prices after a few years.

The current iPod Touch actually has a TN panel.

The problems isn't even TN so much as the terrible quality panels that most laptops come with. Even good TN panels like the ones in the Macbook Pros would be a massive upgrade compared to what most people are stuck with now.

Sadly the average consumer seems to be completely blind when it comes to screen quality.

 

[dma0991]

The current iPod Touch actually has a TN panel.

The problems isn't even TN so much as the terrible quality panels that most laptops come with. Even good TN panels like the ones in the Macbook Pros would be a massive upgrade compared to what most people are stuck with now.

Sadly the average consumer seems to be completely blind when it comes to screen quality.

I double checked, yes it isn't an IPS like the iPhone, no wonder its cheap. :hmm: It's viewing angle is quite good for a TN though, almost like an IPS but only at 2 angles. The other 2 angles still has that discoloration that is associated with TN. The colours are still quite good for a TN. Kinda hoping for a higher resolution PLS or AMOLED but Android devices are a little bit behind in terms of resolution.

Apple may have the upper hand with screen quality but it would definitely never get my money for anything more than a iPod or a MacBook for iOS and Xcode related stuff. iPads are still toys and iPhone is just overpriced. The average consumer are better off being ignorant in screen quality rather than following blindly like most Apple users are. Retina displays are great but nothing ground breaking.

 

[Puddle Jumper]

I double checked, yes it isn't an IPS like the iPhone, no wonder its cheap. :hmm: It's viewing angle is quite good for a TN though, almost like an IPS but only at 2 angles. The other 2 angles still has that discoloration that is associated with TN. The colours are still quite good for a TN. Kinda hoping for a higher resolution PLS or AMOLED but Android devices are a little bit behind in terms of resolution.

Apple may have the upper hand with screen quality but it would definitely never get my money for anything more than a iPod or a MacBook for iOS and Xcode related stuff. iPads are still toys and iPhone is just overpriced. The average consumer are better off being ignorant in screen quality rather than following blindly like most Apple users are. Retina displays are great but nothing ground breaking.

I'm not saying Apple is the solution, The Macbook pros are just the best example of a decent TN panel I could think of off the top of my head.

Android is actually the leader in resolution now, there are ~4 1280x720 Android phones on the market and the Galaxy Nexus does have a 720p Super AMOLED screen.

Back on topic it would be nice to see more choices for IPS, Lenovo and HP are the only ones really offering it now and even then only on select high end systems.

 

[rabbitz]

I'm not saying Apple is the solution, The Macbook pros are just the best example of a decent TN panel I could think of off the top of my head.

Android is actually the leader in resolution now, there are ~4 1280x720 Android phones on the market and the Galaxy Nexus does have a 720p Super AMOLED screen.

Back on topic it would be nice to see more choices for IPS, Lenovo and HP are the only ones really offering it now and even then only on select high end systems.

Dell xps 15 has beautiful TN screen.

Dell Studio XPS 1645 has a very nice screen too, dont have any first hand experience with it though.

 

[kevinsbane]

Back on topic it would be nice to see more choices for IPS, Lenovo and HP are the only ones really offering it now and even then only on select high end systems.

You can get an x220 with an IPS screen for ~700 if you catch a good deal. It's not an ideal IPS, but it's basically the same panel as the iPad. Although it's superior in colour gamut to the Macbook Airs, it is unfortunately still sadly lacking in terms of gamut.

I'm willing to pay for the next laptop with a 1050P, 16:10, IPS monitor regardless of screen size. The switch may cost the manufacturers and consumers a bit initially but the prices should drop and normalize to TN level prices after a few years.

I don't think that will be a reasonable prospect, unfortunately. 16:10 laptop screens are rare as it is (really only on Macbooks/Airs and very high end laptops). Much less as IPS, and wide gamut. The only laptop screen that really meets your desire is the HP dreamcolour, and that's quite, ah, expensive. Of course, I'd love a 16:10, IPS, with RGB LED backlighting, but I would not expect that to cost anything less than $500 as an additional upgrade to whatever else would be needed to actually run the thing.

 

[dma0991]

Android is actually the leader in resolution now, there are ~4 1280x720 Android phones on the market and the Galaxy Nexus does have a 720p Super AMOLED screen.

My bad, I was referring to the fact that the iPad 3 will be having a 2048x1536 resolution display hence what I meant by Apple being in front. Probably I looked too far ahead and relying on a product that has yet to materialize.

I don't think that will be a reasonable prospect, unfortunately. 16:10 laptop screens are rare as it is (really only on Macbooks/Airs and very high end laptops). Much less as IPS, and wide gamut. The only laptop screen that really meets your desire is the HP dreamcolour, and that's quite, ah, expensive. Of course, I'd love a 16:10, IPS, with RGB LED backlighting, but I would not expect that to cost anything less than $500 as an additional upgrade to whatever else would be needed to actually run the thing.

That's a shame as I really like 1050P displays like the Dell M1730 that I'm using as a desktop replacement. Not really liking the direction of 16:9 of current laptops but I'll live with it since its a cheaper alternative.

 

[RavenSEAL]

A 14" Ultra seems to be the sweet spot for the OP, just my .02...

Hang around for a few more months and save a couple of hundred pounds[?]

 

[jihe]

- Word processing (a fair amount, although I have a good tolerance not quite brilliant keyboards)

You will want a laptop instead of a tablet.

 

[Caat]

Thanks guys for all the advice.

I agree that manufacturers of smaller machines are going to have to up the screen quality in order to compete with the screen quality of tablets.

I came across a refurbished Asus UL30a with a Celeren 1.2 Ghz SU2300 processor for £250. It's a little bit more power than an atom or an E450 but with stunning battery life, and the keyboard is supposed to be OK. And it's very cheap. OK it's a laptop that's a bit long in the tooth but it should suit my needs. I can put the money I've saved towards lenses!

 

[Caat]

My UL30 arrived! And it’s got an SU7300 processor rather than an SU2300 which is nice. It also seems to have Bluetooth which I wasn’t expecting. I’ve upgraded to an SSD and it boots in ~20 secs – which is great for my intended use which is a laptop to pick up and use around the house. Its build is a lot better than I was expecting as well. Nice and solid. Surprisingly it seems to run Lightroom half decently – not nearly as good as my desktop but perfectly passable.

The only negative is the god awful screen. I knew the screen was a weak link before I bought it so I am perfectly prepared to put up with it. I’ve also calibrated it so colour wise it’s not too bad. However the glossiness is fatiguing. I haven’t used a computer with a glossy display for about 8 years and I had forgotten how disruptive they can be if you’re not positioned well.

So I was wondering how easy it would be to swap out the display for a matte one. There appears to be an Asus matte display available that was made for a sister model that is chassis identical to the UL30A (I think it’s called the UL30JT). However I would have to order that from the States which becomes expensive.

Are laptop displays manufactured to a standard form? (connectors all identical and in the same positions etc) i.e. is there a good chance that any 13.3 inch LED backlit 1366 x 768 display would fit and operate? Or do some have proprietary frames etc that block installation in some laptops?

So basically is replacing the screen with a matte one a pipedream?

 

[rabbitz]

So basically is replacing the screen with a matte one a pipedream?

There are places that sell matte screen protectors that you just stick on... maybe look into that?