Torn between 4 HDTV's

[DisgruntledVirus]

I am planning on getting a HDTV, and have been doing a ton of research the past few weeks (the gf made a comment today she wished she was a HDTV so she would get that kind of attention for weeks on end ). I am going to be using it mainly to watch movies/tv shows off my HTPC/server and then on occasion some gaming maybe (my gaming rig can run 1080p+ res). I have narrowed it down to 4 models all 46-50 inch: Sony XBR4/5 (46 inch), Sammy 71 series (46 inch), Sharp Aquos (46 inch), or the Pioneer Kuro (50 inch).

Currently I have it ranked as:
Sony
Pioneer
Sharp
Sammy

I like the sammy picture the most, however the glossy screen I am worried won't work in the living room as I have windows behind the couch and on the side (they have curtains but even so, there can be a decent amount of light that gets in). The Sony I like the best, however is much more expensive then the other two. The Pioneer is nice, but the issue is that its only 720p and being hooked up to a PC I am a bit worried about that. Finally the Sharp I have yet to see in person, but it seems to be most likely the one I will go with off specs and price.

I am having problems figuring out which I will get because each has a big issue with it preventing me from settling on one. I just do not know how realistic any of my issues are in a real world usage of it (other then the Sony with price).

PS I have gone through multiple threads of each model on AVS Forums before you say "go look at AVS"

Edit: Let me clarify for model #'s the Kuro would be the 5080, the Sony KDL-46XBR5, Pioneer LN-T4671, or the Sharp LC-46D64U.

 

[PurdueRy]

Originally posted by: DisgruntledVirus
I am planning on getting a HDTV, and have been doing a ton of research the past few weeks (the gf made a comment today she wished she was a HDTV so she would get that kind of attention for weeks on end ). I am going to be using it mainly to watch movies/tv shows off my HTPC/server and then on occasion some gaming maybe (my gaming rig can run 1080p+ res). I have narrowed it down to 4 models all 46-50 inch: Sony XBR4/5 (46 inch), Sammy 71 series (46 inch), Sharp Aquos (46 inch), or the Pioneer Kuro (50 inch).

Currently I have it ranked as:
Sony
Pioneer
Sharp
Sammy

I like the sammy picture the most, however the glossy screen I am worried won't work in the living room as I have windows behind the couch and on the side (they have curtains but even so, there can be a decent amount of light that gets in). The Sony I like the best, however is much more expensive then the other two. The Pioneer is nice, but the issue is that its only 720p and being hooked up to a PC I am a bit worried about that. Finally the Sharp I have yet to see in person, but it seems to be most likely the one I will go with off specs and price.

I am having problems figuring out which I will get because each has a big issue with it preventing me from settling on one. I just do not know how realistic any of my issues are in a real world usage of it (other then the Sony with price).

PS I have gone through multiple threads of each model on AVS Forums before you say "go look at AVS"

I vote Kuro. 720p still looks good as a computer monitor.

 

[Tiamat]

In my opinion, Kuro wins as the TV. If you have to do excel spreadsheets and photoediting, or anything that requires a lot of desktop real-estate a majority of the time, obviously a TV is not in your best interest (a monitor is). If you want to play games, watch movies, sit 9+ feet away from the screen, occasional surfing the internet, the Kuro will win out with its picture quality (especially if you pay the 200$ or so to get it professionally calibrated).

 

[JackBurton]

Kuro 5010. Done.

 

[zinfamous]

Kuro

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

No LCD recommendations?

Even with hooking up to a PC for a secondary output, still stick with 720p? I know that under 50 inches 1080p is irrelevant for watching movies and such, but hooking up to a PC it is not as pointless a spec. Or am I missing something here?

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Are you going to be trying to read text off the screen, or is it just games + movies from the PC? (seems like just games + movies from the OP)

1080p is not irrelevant under 50", it's about screen size and how far away from it you are. In addition there are other advantages to 1080p having to do with scaling and such.

Every display is going to have compromises though and giving up 1080p at your budget in order to get a TV as great as the 5080 makes sense unless you need the real estate of a 1920x1080 screen for text-like computer usage.
For games, sending the 5080 a 720p signal (or whatever you find works best with it) along with some good AA/AF should give you a great gaming experience from your PC.

 

[Shadowknight]

Kuro. Blacks and colors are more important than resolution for providing a good picture. Next to a CRT, Kuros have the best blacks on the market. Just make sure you keep moving images (nothing static) for the first 100-250 hours of viewing time to decrease the chance of burn in. If you're interested in using it as a computer monitor, then I might pass on the plasma then.

 

[alfa147x]

Change your ranking to this

Pioneer
Sammy
Sharp
Sony

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
Are you going to be trying to read text off the screen, or is it just games + movies from the PC? (seems like just games + movies from the OP)

1080p is not irrelevant under 50", it's about screen size and how far away from it you are. In addition there are other advantages to 1080p having to do with scaling and such.

Every display is going to have compromises though and giving up 1080p at your budget in order to get a TV as great as the 5080 makes sense unless you need the real estate of a 1920x1080 screen for text-like computer usage.
For games, sending the 5080 a 720p signal (or whatever you find works best with it) along with some good AA/AF should give you a great gaming experience from your PC.

Seating distance will range from a few ft (if I am at my PC using my 2407 and watching tv on the HDTV) on occasion, to 80% of the usage being 8-9 ft away (based on seating, primary seat is 8.7 ft away). That is one thing I had thought about is with lower resolution, I can crank up AA/AF (I have an 8800GTX) so it would look cleaner.

Originally posted by: Shadowknight
Kuro. Blacks and colors are more important than resolution for providing a good picture. Next to a CRT, Kuros have the best blacks on the market. Just make sure you keep moving images (nothing static) for the first 100-250 hours of viewing time to decrease the chance of burn in. If you're interested in using it as a computer monitor, then I might pass on the plasma then.

90% of the time it will be used for movies/tv shows (boxed sets as I cannot stand commercials anymore lol), split about 60% movies 30% tv shows (most of those are sci-fi and have lot's of space type scenes). The remaining 10% I will use it for gaming on my PC, from TF2/HL2 to games like Oblivion, and more recently Crysis.

Also if it matters all of the video files will be played from the PC, not from a stand alone player. I do plan on getting a stand alone player once the format war is over, however until then I will be playing DVD's with my PC and files stored on my media server.

Originally posted by: alfa147x
Change your ranking to this

Pioneer
Sammy
Sharp
Sony

The Sammy I like the picture a LOT; however I don't think I could do the high-gloss screen. I have a lot of things that will create glare on it (pc's status lights, other electronics, along with room lighting). The Sharp I am going to BB tonight to check out in person and see that picture IRL

 

[chucky2]

Kuro....you're almost all video/graphics.

If you were text as previously stated, then the LCD's come into play.

Chuck

 

[Hulk]

I was in the exact same situation as you a week ago! Check out my post in this forum.

Anyway among the LCD's I though the Sammy and Sony were better than the Sharp. Nothing in particular just better color-wise, black level-wise, and off angle.

Between the Sammy and the Sony it is close but once properly calibrated I liked the Sony better. It seemed to have a more natural image and I love the matte screen.

Now between the Sony and the Kuro it is a harder choice.

LCD positives
Much lower energy usage than the plasma, around 100Watts after calibration for the Sony and around 300Watts for the plasma.
Much higher resolution for the LCD which isn't so important with movies but more so with computer applications.
No burn in with the LCD, particularly important with computer use.
Slightly larger screen

Plasma positives
Better picture for viewing movies and of course this is a HUGE plus since that's pretty much why you buy a TV!


I went with the Sony as my eye and my wife's kind of preferred the sharper contrastier image of the XBR4.

 

[alfa147x]

I have a sharp and i love it but i dont think it could come close the others...

 

[Captante]

The Pioneer is easily the best of those choices unless you'll need to read a lot of text.

If you want to go for a 1080p LCD instead I would go with the Sony.

*(note that you won't get an unbiased opinion of any Sony product here on AT)

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

Text will be very rare, just enough text to get me to where I need to be to find files, and maybe some very rare internet surfing. Text will rarely be displayed (unless its subtitled as I sometimes do watch anime), so that is not a big deal to me if it can display text well. I care much more about the PQ, followed by how it looks for gaming, followed by some use as a PC monitor for watching movies/video.

I went to BB last night and spent a good 2 hours looking at the 4 models, and kept coming back to the Kuro. The Sony looks pretty good, but the bezel is just too big for my tastes, makes the TV look smaller, and the price is too high. The Panny has an amazing PQ, but the gloss screen just wont work for me. When I could clearly see reflections of me, and the store in the monitor screen on really dark screens all the way up to bright snow type scenes. I love the colors and such, but I can't do the gloss screen. The Sharp was okay but nothing special, and was kind of washed out with saturation. The Kuro looked the best, but was a bit dark compared to LCD's that have brightness all the way up. But colors were spot on. In a darker setting (not a show floor with LCD's super bright right next to it), like my house, I think that it will look the best.

I just keep coming back to the 720p issue.

 

[DBL]

Originally posted by: DisgruntledVirus
Text will be very rare, just enough text to get me to where I need to be to find files, and maybe some very rare internet surfing. Text will rarely be displayed (unless its subtitled as I sometimes do watch anime), so that is not a big deal to me if it can display text well. I care much more about the PQ, followed by how it looks for gaming, followed by some use as a PC monitor for watching movies/video.

I went to BB last night and spent a good 2 hours looking at the 4 models, and kept coming back to the Kuro. The Sony looks pretty good, but the bezel is just too big for my tastes, makes the TV look smaller, and the price is too high. The Panny has an amazing PQ, but the gloss screen just wont work for me. When I could clearly see reflections of me, and the store in the monitor screen on really dark screens all the way up to bright snow type scenes. I love the colors and such, but I can't do the gloss screen. The Sharp was okay but nothing special, and was kind of washed out with saturation. The Kuro looked the best, but was a bit dark compared to LCD's that have brightness all the way up. But colors were spot on. In a darker setting (not a show floor with LCD's super bright right next to it), like my house, I think that it will look the best.

I just keep coming back to the 720p issue.

Which Panasonic did you look at? The 700u has the glossy screen but the 77U has an anti-glare coating which helps with that issue. It can be had for < $1900. If you want 1080p, it's the best choice for picture quality in that price level.

 

[JackBurton]

Originally posted by: Captante
The Pioneer is easily the best of those choices unless you'll need to read a lot of text.

If you want to go for a 1080p LCD instead I would go with the Sony.

*(note that you won't get an unbiased opinion of any Sony product here on AT)

:roll: Give me a break. Poor little innocent Sony. Always getting beat up on by AT members for no reason.

The fact is, Sony makes one of the best LCD HDTVs out today (Sony and Samsung are VERY close as far as quality and performance goes). Unfortunately, they still have an issue with motion. Some people have gone so far as retuning their brand new XBR4/5 because of the motion issues. If Sony can resolve this issue on their next gen LCD, they should have a damn good LCD on their hands. BUT, if you wanted to go LCD today, the TOP LCD HDTVs are Sony and Samsung. No question about it.

But for HDTVs, Pioneer's new Kuros just slap all the LCDs around. And they are only getting better. Check out Pioneer's ECC plasma. They are also going to use 10 lumen tech in their 10G panels, which is what I'm waiting for. I almost bit on the 8G Kuros, but I think I can wait a little longer. But for anyone that needs a great HDTV now, Kuros are definitely the way to go.

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

Originally posted by: JackBurton

Originally posted by: Captante
The Pioneer is easily the best of those choices unless you'll need to read a lot of text.

If you want to go for a 1080p LCD instead I would go with the Sony.

*(note that you won't get an unbiased opinion of any Sony product here on AT)

:roll: Give me a break. Poor little innocent Sony. Always getting beat up on by AT members for no reason.

The fact is, Sony makes one of the best LCD HDTVs out today (Sony and Samsung are VERY close as far as quality and performance goes). Unfortunately, they still have an issue with motion. Some people have gone so far as retuning their brand new XBR4/5 because of the motion issues. If Sony can resolve this issue on their next gen LCD, they should have a damn good LCD on their hands. BUT, if you wanted to go LCD today, the TOP LCD HDTVs are Sony and Samsung. No question about it.

But for HDTVs, Pioneer's new Kuros just slap all the LCDs around. And they are only getting better. Check out Pioneer's ECC plasma. They are also going to use 10 lumen tech in their 10G panels, which is what I'm waiting for. I almost bit on the 8G Kuros, but I think I can wait a little longer. But for anyone that needs a great HDTV now, Kuros are definitely the way to go.

I would love to get that panel, its amazing at its black levels. Wow its so black. Unfortunately I don't want to drop (nor can I) $10k on a screen.

I have come down to either the Sammy 71 series or the Kuro. I might get the sammy and if I dont like the screen get the Kuro, but I think I will go the other way around and get the Kuro.

Off to BB to check em out again in person for the 4th time this week

 

[JackBurton]

Originally posted by: DisgruntledVirus

Originally posted by: JackBurton

Originally posted by: Captante
The Pioneer is easily the best of those choices unless you'll need to read a lot of text.

If you want to go for a 1080p LCD instead I would go with the Sony.

*(note that you won't get an unbiased opinion of any Sony product here on AT)

:roll: Give me a break. Poor little innocent Sony. Always getting beat up on by AT members for no reason.

The fact is, Sony makes one of the best LCD HDTVs out today (Sony and Samsung are VERY close as far as quality and performance goes). Unfortunately, they still have an issue with motion. Some people have gone so far as retuning their brand new XBR4/5 because of the motion issues. If Sony can resolve this issue on their next gen LCD, they should have a damn good LCD on their hands. BUT, if you wanted to go LCD today, the TOP LCD HDTVs are Sony and Samsung. No question about it.

But for HDTVs, Pioneer's new Kuros just slap all the LCDs around. And they are only getting better. Check out Pioneer's ECC plasma. They are also going to use 10 lumen tech in their 10G panels, which is what I'm waiting for. I almost bit on the 8G Kuros, but I think I can wait a little longer. But for anyone that needs a great HDTV now, Kuros are definitely the way to go.

I would love to get that panel, its amazing at its black levels. Wow its so black. Unfortunately I don't want to drop (nor can I) $10k on a screen.

I have come down to either the Sammy 71 series or the Kuro. I might get the sammy and if I dont like the screen get the Kuro, but I think I will go the other way around and get the Kuro.

Off to BB to check em out again in person for the 4th time this week

Um, where did you get $10K from?

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

Originally posted by: JackBurton

Originally posted by: DisgruntledVirus

Originally posted by: JackBurton

Originally posted by: Captante
The Pioneer is easily the best of those choices unless you'll need to read a lot of text.

If you want to go for a 1080p LCD instead I would go with the Sony.

*(note that you won't get an unbiased opinion of any Sony product here on AT)

:roll: Give me a break. Poor little innocent Sony. Always getting beat up on by AT members for no reason.

The fact is, Sony makes one of the best LCD HDTVs out today (Sony and Samsung are VERY close as far as quality and performance goes). Unfortunately, they still have an issue with motion. Some people have gone so far as retuning their brand new XBR4/5 because of the motion issues. If Sony can resolve this issue on their next gen LCD, they should have a damn good LCD on their hands. BUT, if you wanted to go LCD today, the TOP LCD HDTVs are Sony and Samsung. No question about it.

But for HDTVs, Pioneer's new Kuros just slap all the LCDs around. And they are only getting better. Check out Pioneer's ECC plasma. They are also going to use 10 lumen tech in their 10G panels, which is what I'm waiting for. I almost bit on the 8G Kuros, but I think I can wait a little longer. But for anyone that needs a great HDTV now, Kuros are definitely the way to go.

I would love to get that panel, its amazing at its black levels. Wow its so black. Unfortunately I don't want to drop (nor can I) $10k on a screen.

I have come down to either the Sammy 71 series or the Kuro. I might get the sammy and if I dont like the screen get the Kuro, but I think I will go the other way around and get the Kuro.

Off to BB to check em out again in person for the 4th time this week

Um, where did you get $10K from?

opps I misread your post, you were referring to the 8/10th generation not grand lol. my bad.

Anybody know if I ordered off Amazon.com would it be covered by the Pioneer warranty, or do you have to buy it at an authorized retailer?

 

[zinfamous]

FYI: my local BB (in Chicago) had the 5080 for $2k yesterday.

they had the 1080p (50" non-elite) version displayed next to it. ...$4k.

I'll give someone $4k if they can provide a legitimate reason for paying a $2k premium (and not say, buy another 5080) to go 1080p

 

[JackBurton]

Originally posted by: zinfamous
FYI: my local BB (in Chicago) had the 5080 for $2k yesterday.

they had the 1080p (50" non-elite) version displayed next to it. ...$4k.

I'll give someone $4k if they can provide a legitimate reason for paying a $2k premium (and not say, buy another 5080) to go 1080p

Look at it this way, you can get 2 5080s for the price of one 5010.

 

[ibmikeg]

I work at Crutchfield and I look at these tv's all day every day, the one I would recommend is the XBR4 or the 71 series from samsung (the glare is an issue tho), definitely not the Sharp, they look great on HD but if you switch it to SD it looks like crap, and they still have some issues with banding.


http://www.crutchfield.com/App...ch=46xbr4&i=158KD46XB4

 

[DBL]

Originally posted by: zinfamous
FYI: my local BB (in Chicago) had the 5080 for $2k yesterday.

they had the 1080p (50" non-elite) version displayed next to it. ...$4k.

I'll give someone $4k if they can provide a legitimate reason for paying a $2k premium (and not say, buy another 5080) to go 1080p

That's a loaded question b/c it depends on what your definition of legitimate is. for someone who wants the absolute best and who sits close enough (<8 ft) to resolve 1080p on a 50", it may well be worth it for them.

Besides, Pioneer may have the best picture right now, but it's certainly not the best value. Personally, with 4k to spend, I'd easily opt for the 58" 1080p Panasonic for <$3200 over any 50" Pioneer. IMO, the extra 8" more than makes up for the black levels (which are still excellent) and should let just about anyone benefit from 1080p, provided they sit at the proper distance.

 

[JackBurton]

Originally posted by: DBL

Originally posted by: zinfamous
FYI: my local BB (in Chicago) had the 5080 for $2k yesterday.

they had the 1080p (50" non-elite) version displayed next to it. ...$4k.

I'll give someone $4k if they can provide a legitimate reason for paying a $2k premium (and not say, buy another 5080) to go 1080p

That's a loaded question b/c it depends on what your definition of legitimate is. for someone who wants the absolute best and who sits close enough (<8 ft) to resolve 1080p on a 50", it may well be worth it for them.

Besides, Pioneer may have the best picture right now, but it's certainly not the best value. Personally, with 4k to spend, I'd easily opt for the 58" 1080p Panasonic for <$3200 over any 50" Pioneer. IMO, the extra 8" more than makes up for the black levels (which are still excellent) and should let just about anyone benefit from 1080p, provided they sit at the proper distance.

But for $4K, you could almost get a 60" Pioneer 6010.