top three or five HTIB brands?

[vshah]

i'd recommend not getting a HTIB and instead spending that $1k on a 2.1 setup. a $1k 2.1 setup will sound a lot better than pretty much any HTIB, ESPECIALLY in a room that is 20x25 feet (if that is what you meant by 20-25ft)

this. pb1000 + 2x pioneer floorstanders + avr should come in under $1k.

 

[Thebobo]

The sound is good, but the sensitivity (mid-80s) is too low for serious HT use.

What defines serious HT use, $$?

 

[Dunkman04]

What defines serious HT use, $$?

Loudness I guess? I have the Pioneer speakers with a low end Yamaha receiver. They do require more power than some other speakers I've had, but for me they get plenty loud without driving the receiver too hard. When I listened to the Pioneers beside the Polks and Klipschs they had in Best Buy it was easy to tell 2 things. The Pioneers were indeed substantially quieter at the same receiver setting. However, the sound quality, especially compared to the Polk towers, was in a completely different league. I'm sure more expensive Polk speakers sound much better but the ones in this price range sounded like a muddled mess after listening to the Pioneers.

 

[MonKENy]

I will do 5.1, and look into component pieces rather than HTIB. You guys as always have given great advice to start. As I start shopping for parts now ill begin asking more questions.

Cheers guys, and please do keep up the debate as it is interesting for me to read.

 

[s44]

Loudness I guess?

Not just loudness but dynamic loudness. Driving speakers near their maximum output, with lots of wattage going through, runs into power compression issues... so that when you turn it up, or are in a loud section of the movie/music, everything sounds more fatiguingly loud and about the same volume instead of just... more present, with a full gradation of volumes.

And a lot of the inaccuracies you hear when you test speakers in two-channel are correctable with a modern AVR's room/output correction software (Audyssey or the like). Software can't correct the wattage output of your amp or the efficiency/sensitivity of your speakers, though.

I really do suggest those Klipsch speakers while they're on sale at BB. Excellent price for a lot of sound... as long as you're planning to roll off the high end peaks with something like Audyssey.

 

[giantpandaman2]

Loudnesss != good sound. Audyssey can only make up for so much if the speakers sound harsh.

Hell, while dynamic loudness can be important to some people, every single receiver nowadays comes with a setting that limits dynamic loudness because it can piss off the neighbors as well as the audience. Who hasn't had to turn up the sound to hear some dialogue then immediately had to drop the sound because the explosions are going to wake the neighbors/kids/make the wife/gf not pee her pants?

I, personally, can't turn Klipsch speakers up loud because the heaviness of the treble makes them hurt my ears and creates massive listening fatigue. I also just don't think they sound all that good when compared with many speakers of equal price. Low end? Pioneers crush them imho. Higher end? Internet direct speakers sound far better. Audyssey helps, but it doesn't fix it 100%. OP-just take a listen and decide for yourself as well as how loud you really need a movie to get.

For reference my speakers range between 89dB-91dB sensitivity. I don't even come close to maxing my volume because I like not destroying my hearing. (When it felt like my subs were pressing air pillows against the sides of my head I decided to dial it back.)

 

[tential]

At $1k you have a lot of options. The Pioneer's sound good but from what I read online, the Polk Monitor 70s were preferred to the Pioneer Andrew Jones Floor Standing Speakers.

Here is what I'd personally get
2 Polk Monitor 70s ($300)
Bic PL-200 Sub ($300)
Polk CS2 ($100)
Onkyo AVR (THey have the HT-RC series I'd pick up one of those you can find them at $250).
Pioneer Andrew Jones BOokshelf Speakers ($50 a pair, the smaller cheaper version that is on slickdeals.net).

For $1k that's a good deal on all of those speakers. I really don't think you'll find many other deals as good as this. I could do something with the Energy Floorstanders as well or another brand's floorstanding entry level type speakers.

@Giantpandaman which Klipsch Speakers do you have? I really want the RF-7 IIs but I'll be going DIY since it's cheaper and I'll get much more quality for my cash. I really like Klipsch though and I hear people hate the treble. I have Infinity Kappa's in my car and people rated it as HORRIBLE on the treble. It even has a -3db switch on the tweeter to bring the high end down and it STILL isn't enough. I love it though.

 

[purbeast0]

if you haven't heard the rf7-ii's i suggest you go listen to them first for a while. they were on my list of top speakers that i was looking at when i was searching and i listened to them in both a persons HT setup as well as a store. to me, while they sounded good, the highs i could tell would bother me after a little bit of listening. in the store is when i really noticed it because they didn't have a theater setup so all i could do was listen to music.

as someone who's not very knowledgeable on this stuff, everyone said it was because of the horn tweeter in the klipsch compared to other speakers. some people love it, some people don't, so i'd just go listen to them first before you blow that kind of money on speakers.

i ended up buying other speakers without even listening to them after hearing klipsch, b&w, monitor, golden ear, and a couple others, just due to the research i did. needless to say i don't think i could really be happier with anything else than what i have now (jtr). hell even the guy who let me demo his 5.2 rf7-ii setup told me that if he could do it all over again, he would have either gotten jtr or seaton speakers and wouldn't have gotten the klipsch.

 

[SlickSnake]

Loudnesss != good sound. Audyssey can only make up for so much if the speakers sound harsh.

Hell, while dynamic loudness can be important to some people, every single receiver nowadays comes with a setting that limits dynamic loudness because it can piss off the neighbors as well as the audience. Who hasn't had to turn up the sound to hear some dialogue then immediately had to drop the sound because the explosions are going to wake the neighbors/kids/make the wife/gf not pee her pants?

I, personally, can't turn Klipsch speakers up loud because the heaviness of the treble makes them hurt my ears and creates massive listening fatigue. I also just don't think they sound all that good when compared with many speakers of equal price. Low end? Pioneers crush them imho. Higher end? Internet direct speakers sound far better. Audyssey helps, but it doesn't fix it 100%. OP-just take a listen and decide for yourself as well as how loud you really need a movie to get.

For reference my speakers range between 89dB-91dB sensitivity. I don't even come close to maxing my volume because I like not destroying my hearing. (When it felt like my subs were pressing air pillows against the sides of my head I decided to dial it back.)

I think the crowd that buys Klipsch horn speakers (and even Polk speakers) don't mind the harsh treble highs and the overcompensated midranges because they have been to so many clubs and concerts their hearing is already half burned out on the mid and higher frequencies. To someone like that, a harsh Onkyo receiver paired with tinny Klipsch speakers probably sounds great, because the sound system is overcompensating for their hearing loss and the ringing in their ears that never goes away.

I like Infinity or JBL designed speakers paired with a Harman Kardon or a Denon receiver because I don't need to blast my ear drums with harsh and tinny treble just to hear the highs and the vocals in the sound system.

 

[SlickSnake]

These were designed by Andrew Jones and widely talked about as very good for the price.

Custom designing a cheap speaker cabinet for crappy Pioneer speaker drivers don't do a whole lot of good. He didn't custom design the speaker drivers. If he did, they would cost a whole lot more than Pioneer is charging for them. Those are the exact same crappy drivers they use in every other speaker they make.

A professional cake decorator can make a pile of turds look like a beautiful wedding cake, too, but inside, it's still just a turd.

And if you don't think people with just as much (if not more) talent as Andrew Jones are making Harman Kardon, Infinity and JBL speakers, you are kidding yourself.

 

[tential]

I think the crowd that buys Klipsch horn speakers (and even Polk speakers) don't mind the harsh treble highs and the overcompensated midranges because they have been to so many clubs and concerts their hearing is already half burned out on the mid and higher frequencies. To someone like that, a harsh Onkyo receiver paired with tinny Klipsch speakers probably sounds great, because the sound system is overcompensating for their hearing loss and the ringing in their ears that never goes away.

I like Infinity or JBL designed speakers paired with a Harman Kardon or a Denon receiver because I don't need to blast my ear drums with harsh and tinny treble just to hear the highs and the vocals in the sound system.

Ha maybe that's why. I threw a LOT of parties with my system in college. Wouldn't be surprised if I did have some hearing loss.

I've been on AVSforum a lot and they have DIY assembly kits. I don't know how to make my own Crossover nor have the tools, but the Speaker Box assembly isn't too hard. That's my next step in my home theater setup. I'm just waiting for them to sell assembled crossovers so I don't have to try and do the Crossover assembly myself.

Also, I think a lot of people who complain about Polk/Klipsch treble being too high are maybe listening using only receiver power. These speakers are rated for 300W (RF-7ii 250W but very sensitive and Polk Monitor 70 I think is 275 W). I definitely feel that once I added an amplifier my Monitor 70s smoothed out a bit but that may just have been in my head.

 

[sdifox]

Custom designing a cheap speaker cabinet for crappy Pioneer speaker drivers don't do a whole lot of good. He didn't custom design the speaker drivers. If he did, they would cost a whole lot more than Pioneer is charging for them. Those are the exact same crappy drivers they use in every other speaker they make.

A professional cake decorator can make a pile of turds look like a beautiful wedding cake, too, but inside, it's still just a turd.

And if you don't think people with just as much (if not more) talent as Andrew Jones are making Harman Kardon, Infinity and JBL speakers, you are kidding yourself.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13645_3-5...le-design-great-sounding-affordable-speakers/

I am going by this. I don't know the drivers so I cannot speak to the accuracy of the article. But it said the drivers were designed by Andrew Jones.

 

[s44]

if you haven't heard the rf7-ii's i suggest you go listen to them first for a while.

Erm, what? No one suggested the RF7 II. I of course agree with you that at *that* (~$1500/speaker) price point there are much better options. But we're talking about literally 1/20th of the budget, and in a large room besides, and for that mass-market situation you aren't going to find much better of a HT speaker than Klipsch.

edit -- oops, this was replying to a side convo. Yeah, tential, if you want to talk about pricier options you might want to break out a new thread.

 

[SlickSnake]

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13645_3-5...le-design-great-sounding-affordable-speakers/

I am going by this. I don't know the drivers so I cannot speak to the accuracy of the article. But it said the drivers were designed by Andrew Jones.

Those look like low end generic Pioneer speaker drivers outsourced from some Chinese speaker company which just stamps a Pioneer name on the back of the magnets. And even if they add Andrews name on the back of them, it still don't mean a single thing. And those sad looking 1" paper cone tweeters look so 1970's. And there is nothing special at all to me about the plain looking cabinet designs, either.

This guy claims this is a similar tweeter to what's inside the designer boxes. And a not very robust tweeter at all. A large magnet size does not necessarily make a good tweeter.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/371013742310?catId=293&item=371013742310

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1489347/pioneer-sp-fs52-repair

 

[purbeast0]

Erm, what? No one suggested the RF7 II. I of course agree with you that at *that* (~$1500/speaker) price point there are much better options. But we're talking about literally 1/20th of the budget, and in a large room besides, and for that mass-market situation you aren't going to find much better of a HT speaker than Klipsch.

edit -- oops, this was replying to a side convo. Yeah, tential, if you want to talk about pricier options you might want to break out a new thread.

i was replying to tential

 

[Midwayman]

Custom designing a cheap speaker cabinet for crappy Pioneer speaker drivers don't do a whole lot of good. He didn't custom design the speaker drivers. If he did, they would cost a whole lot more than Pioneer is charging for them. Those are the exact same crappy drivers they use in every other speaker they make.

A professional cake decorator can make a pile of turds look like a beautiful wedding cake, too, but inside, it's still just a turd.

And if you don't think people with just as much (if not more) talent as Andrew Jones are making Harman Kardon, Infinity and JBL speakers, you are kidding yourself.

On the contrary a well designed enclosure does wonders for a mediocre driver. Of course this is a little more prevalent in car audio where drivers are always sold bare and enclosures atrocious in general.

 

[purbeast0]

Also, I think a lot of people who complain about Polk/Klipsch treble being too high are maybe listening using only receiver power. These speakers are rated for 300W (RF-7ii 250W but very sensitive and Polk Monitor 70 I think is 275 W). I definitely feel that once I added an amplifier my Monitor 70s smoothed out a bit but that may just have been in my head.

sorry for the derailment a little bit, but isnt isn't true at all. there are definitely better sounding speakers that can be ran off of the same power than the rf7-ii's. anything that sounds good with a lot of power should still sound good with lesser power.

granted, everyone can like different sounding things though, so just get what YOU like to listen to and not what everyone else thinks sounds good. they aren't going to be using your speakers, you are.

 

[sdifox]

Those look like low end generic Pioneer speaker drivers outsourced from some Chinese speaker company which just stamps a Pioneer name on the back of the magnets. And even if they add Andrews name on the back of them, it still don't mean a single thing. And those sad looking 1" paper cone tweeters look so 1970's. And there is nothing special at all to me about the plain looking cabinet designs, either.

This guy claims this is a similar tweeter to what's inside the designer boxes. And a not very robust tweeter at all. A large magnet size does not necessarily make a good tweeter.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/371013742310?catId=293&item=371013742310

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1489347/pioneer-sp-fs52-repair

Err, the guy from avsforum burned out his tweeters with tone control set to max and clipped his receiver.

Look of driver doesn't mean a whole lot and just because a driver is made from cellulose, it doesn't necesarily make it bad. Speaker design is an art.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

I have some towers with 12" woofers. They rock a small room. But are now in a large room like the one you describe. I almost want to get a sub for my setup.

 

[Raduque]

I'd skip the Onkyo receiver. Been reading over on AVS about how even their newest lines are having problems with the HDMI boards dying.

BTW, I know it doesn't mean much, but I auditioned the Polk T15 and Polk TSx110s at Best Buy, and the T15s sounded tinnier and, well, smaller. The TSx110s has a fuller closer in sound. I was buying to pair with my TSx150 Center. The TSx110s went home with me, and the T15s stayed on the shelf.

 

[LikeLinus]

sorry for the derailment a little bit, but isnt isn't true at all. there are definitely better sounding speakers that can be ran off of the same power than the rf7-ii's. anything that sounds good with a lot of power should still sound good with lesser power.

granted, everyone can like different sounding things though, so just get what YOU like to listen to and not what everyone else thinks sounds good. they aren't going to be using your speakers, you are.

Klipsch is an acquired taste, there is no denying it. I purchased my set back he are ago and I'm still using them these days. While I totally understand the harsh comment, I've filled the void with 15" and 18" woofers to create a more dynamic sound as a whole. I got the diy bug as far as subwoofers, and I now have 4 SI 18s and one 15" Dayton's. I think with the klipsch horns, 8" woofers and 15 + 18 subs, I have a nice balance.

I would Recommend Marantz or Denon for Klipsch setup. I use an x4000 and love it. I also have a peavey and inuke 3000dsp amp for the lower end.

Personally I like this setup and have no real complains.

That said, I want to build some diysoundgroup LRC soon. The real problem is the DIY bug. Omg it's contagious and a massive money pit.

People are going to tell you the RF7 isn't good enough, but they are now DIY snobs. The reality is they are great for speakers for someone who doesn't have the carpentry skills. You won't be disappointed, but there is some great speakers out their for the money if you are willing to us flat packs or build your own.

 

[MonKENy]

I usually take your guys ideas and run with them, however that being said

To make it easy I ended up buying the Onkyo systems. A 5.1 for me and my Dad did get the newest 7.1 from them.

Mine was the s3500 for $250 and his was the HT-S9700THX for 1099 (both free shipping)

/cringe :wub:

 

[vshah]

if you're happy, that's all that matters. But you could have been happier :awe: