Too soon for another Left 4 Dead? Valve explains

[AstroManLuca]

One criticism leveled against Valve is that L4D2 is coming out so soon that there's no way it could have gotten a full development cycle unless they had started working on it months ago, i.e., they started doing L4D2 not long after L4D was released. In short, planned obsolescence. I think that's partially true, but another way of looking at it is they've been working on L4D content since its release and decided at some point to bundle it together as a new game rather than releasing it periodically as DLC or content updates.

It's a little strange, given Valve's earlier promotion of episodic gaming. They haven't really done anything with that. HL2 Episode 3 has been conspicuously absent?who knows when it'll be released or even be previewed??and meanwhile they're doing a sequel to L4D instead of releasing the new content as another "episode." In the end, I guess the only real difference is that they'll get customers to pay an extra $20-$30 each, and I guess they're hoping it won't cut into sales enough to hurt their profits. But I'm not so sure. People have criticized L4D for a long time for being overpriced, and add that to the whole update vs. full sequel release fiasco and you have a lot of jaded customers.

 

[BD2003]

Originally posted by: Dumac
Screw you, Valve. L4D is the last game I buy from you for a long, long, time.

Do you not understand the L4D2 is basically going to make L4D obsolete and worthless? Almost all of the L4D community is probably going to migrate to L4D2, leaving L4D with scraps for a community. They should have warned customers that they were paying full price for a 1 year beta.

The main criticism with L4D was the obvious lack of content, but Valve fans promised that they would continue to back it up strongly, like TF2. Now with L4D2 coming out, all hopes of that happening are squashed, are you are foolish if you think otherwise.

Sequels split online communities. In other to stay with large majority of the population, you have to buy the sequel. L4D2 is great and all, but this is too soon. It just seems like a slap in the face for anyone who bought L4D, as they would have been much better off not wasting their money. L4D2 looks like what L4D should have been. I'm not paying full price for half a game again.

EDIT: Also, I would like to point out the giant different between the attitudes towards L4D in this thread and the attitudes in this PC gaming thread.

If everyone is going to move to L4D2, then problem solved, the "community" will stay nice and large. Either way, the L4D community is big enough that it could get split several times and there'd still be more than enough people to play.

You'd think that people that are so enamoured about a game that they "join it's community" would love nothing more than well....more of what they love!

Anyone that didnt feel like they got enough game with L4D shouldnt care about the sequel, because they werent satisfied with the original. But the truth is, there was more than enough game in the original, and the sequel promises even more above that.

Nearly all of the forum whiners who bought the last game and cared enough about L4D to post about how jilted they are, are not only going to buy L4D2, theyre going to love it. And deep down, they know it.

But if you give people free stuff for a few years, then start asking for money, people are going to get upset. So I get it.

But at the end of the day, L4D2 is coming out just a short year after the original, and thats awesome. I thought I'd have to wait another 3-4. There's nothing internet whiners can do to change that, thank god. So whine away, but I can't wait for more.

 

[biggestmuff]

OMG. You guys are still bitching about a new, updated game from one of the best developers out there? Are you guys gamers? WTF?

 

[TheVrolok]

Originally posted by: Slick5150
I'd prefer knowing where the hell HL2: Ep 3 is.

I'm mixed about L4D 2 and I'll probably wait to get it cheap like I did for L4D 1.. but really, this ^^. Where the f is Ep3? They put out TF2, L4D, L4D2, Portal, and no sign of Ep 3? (I know Ep 2 came out with the Orange Box, too) Come on. Can Valve fail anymore epically with "episodic gaming" ?

 

[TecHNooB]

Originally posted by: TheVrolok

Originally posted by: Slick5150
I'd prefer knowing where the hell HL2: Ep 3 is.

I'm mixed about L4D 2 and I'll probably wait to get it cheap like I did for L4D 1.. but really, this ^^. Where the f is Ep3? They put out TF2, L4D, L4D2, Portal, and no sign of Ep 3? (I know Ep 2 came out with the Orange Box, too) Come on. Can Valve fail anymore epically with "episodic gaming" ?

Forget ep3, I want a new half life game running on a new engine! Comeon valve!

 

[Czar]

Gabe said himself at the time of the release of l4d that it would follow the same path as TF2. Content patches constantly to keep people playing and to get new players. People likemyself bought l4d because of that because it was damn obvios that l4d is very small, few levels, few enemies, few weapons, few characters... its just tiny.

Now they anounce l4d2, which means no content patches for l4d, or no where near what they originaly promised.

This will definetly split the players. Some will buy the new game because its Valve and its probably good. Some will refuse to be burned again and will just play the old one.

Bad move.

 

[zerocool84]

Originally posted by: Czar
Gabe said himself at the time of the release of l4d that it would follow the same path as TF2. Content patches constantly to keep people playing and to get new players. People likemyself bought l4d because of that because it was damn obvios that l4d is very small, few levels, few enemies, few weapons, few characters... its just tiny.

Now they anounce l4d2, which means no content patches for l4d, or no where near what they originaly promised.

This will definetly split the players. Some will buy the new game because its Valve and its probably good. Some will refuse to be burned again and will just play the old one.

Bad move.

Yep it was supposed to be supported for a long time which is why I'm pissed. All these people saying, wtf it's a new game why are you complaining, well it looks EXACTLY like the first one with "different" maps and some more weapons with the same game modes. I bought it on day one expecting it to be supported for a while. Got bored of it after the little content but held on cus was expecting more stuff then they announce a new game so we sure as hell know they aren't going to support the first one any more.

 

[Queasy]

LMAO - Via Kotaku. How upset is the L4D community over the L4D2 announcement? Well, there's the inevitable petition detailing the following complaints:

? Significant content for L4D1 was promised, and never delivered
? Valve put little faith in L4D1 since they almost certainly started working on L4D2 right after release
? The fact that L4D2 is nearly identical to L4D1 will decimate the community for both games
? The announced date is not nearly enough time to polish content or make significant gameplay changes
? The new character designs seem bland and unappealing so far
? L4D2 is too bright to fit in with L4D1's visual aesthetic
? The fiddle-based horde music is extremely disliked, though the differently orchestrated music is otherwise welcome
? L4D2's release will result in a drop in quality and frequency for L4D1 content, even compared to before
? The community has lost faith in Valve's former reputation for commitment to their games post-release

And possibly even more inevitable, the Hitler video edit

 

[BD2003]

Every single person who signed that petition is going to buy L4D2. They might resist it for a little while, but theyll buy it. Anyone who cares enough to sign that petition....you're SO buying it.

People are holding valve games up to way too high of a standard - I dont remember a petition for a boycott of COD:WaW. A few less people bought it, but I'm sure virtually every big fan of COD4 did.

 

[Jack Flash]

Originally posted by: BD2003
Every single person who signed that petition is going to buy L4D2. They might resist it for a little while, but theyll buy it. Anyone who cares enough to sign that petition....you're SO buying it.

People are holding valve games up to way too high of a standard - I dont remember a petition for a boycott of COD:WaW. A few less people bought it, but I'm sure virtually every big fan of COD4 did.

Not me.

 

[Dacalo]

Meh, I got my $30's worth from the game. I don' think I will pay $50 full price for the game though.

 

[dguy6789]

Originally posted by: BD2003
Every single person who signed that petition is going to buy L4D2. They might resist it for a little while, but theyll buy it. Anyone who cares enough to sign that petition....you're SO buying it.

People are holding valve games up to way too high of a standard - I dont remember a petition for a boycott of COD:WaW. A few less people bought it, but I'm sure virtually every big fan of COD4 did.

This.

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: BD2003
Every single person who signed that petition is going to buy L4D2. They might resist it for a little while, but theyll buy it. Anyone who cares enough to sign that petition....you're SO buying it.

People are holding valve games up to way too high of a standard - I dont remember a petition for a boycott of COD:WaW. A few less people bought it, but I'm sure virtually every big fan of COD4 did.

Heh, it is kind of funny. You never hear people complain because Valve turns around a sequel quickly. Until now.

 

[I4AT]

They should offer the second one half off for people that already have the first game registered with Steam. L4D got stale after the first week anyways cause I have no interest in the versus mode, so I felt like I wasted my money before a sequel was even announced. Meh.

 

[zerocool84]

Originally posted by: BD2003
Every single person who signed that petition is going to buy L4D2. They might resist it for a little while, but theyll buy it. Anyone who cares enough to sign that petition....you're SO buying it.

People are holding valve games up to way too high of a standard - I dont remember a petition for a boycott of COD:WaW. A few less people bought it, but I'm sure virtually every big fan of COD4 did.

Well seeing as COD is much more mainstream than L4D is and most of the population is stupid then yes but I didn't buy WaW cus it obviously was just a skinned COD4. I won't be buying L4D2 cus it offers minimal changes to L4D.

 

[R Nilla]

Originally posted by: Queasy
LMAO - Via Kotaku. How upset is the L4D community over the L4D2 announcement? Well, there's the inevitable petition detailing the following complaints:

...

They didn't highlight the best part:

WE REQUEST:

-That Valve honor its commitment to release ongoing periodic content for Left 4 Dead.

-That Left 4 Dead 2 not be released as a stand-alone, full-priced sequel but as either a free update to Left 4 Dead or an expansion with full compatibility with basic Left 4 Dead owners.

-That Left 4 Dead owners be given discounts for Left 4 Dead 2, should it be released as premium content.

 

[BD2003]

Originally posted by: R Nilla

Originally posted by: Queasy
LMAO - Via Kotaku. How upset is the L4D community over the L4D2 announcement? Well, there's the inevitable petition detailing the following complaints:

...

They didn't highlight the best part:

WE REQUEST:

-That Valve honor its commitment to release ongoing periodic content for Left 4 Dead.

-That Left 4 Dead 2 not be released as a stand-alone, full-priced sequel but as either a free update to Left 4 Dead or an expansion with full compatibility with basic Left 4 Dead owners.

-That Left 4 Dead owners be given discounts for Left 4 Dead 2, should it be released as premium content.

Yeah, as this is so absurd its getting a little extra media attention, its becoming plainly obvious how childish this is. Valve shouldnt have overpromised and underdelivered with L4D...at least thats the perception. But this is insane.

What did valve release for TF2 for free? A new map or two, a few new weapons, a few achievements, but really, nothing massive. But now they expect more content than came with the original game, for free? WTF? Even hinting at that undermines any legitimate concerns they might have had.

And besides, they're SO still buying it anyway, so this is really much ado about nothing.

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: BD2003
And besides, they're SO still buying it anyway, so this is really much ado about nothing.

Especially since Valve has stated they aren't done with L4D1.

Faliszek also promised Left 4 Dead fans that updates are still due for the original. ?In fact Left 4 Dead one, we still aren?t done with it,? he said. ?We still have updates coming. Our focus is always on what we?re putting in the box, put as much as we can in the box. Let?s not worry about: let?s save that and not put that in the game. No, let?s put that in. And with the five campaigns, all of them out of the box, playable Versus, co-op, Survival and the new mode, there?s just a ton of content in there.?

 

[Krakn3Dfx]

Show me where to sign up, I have my $50 ready.

Valve, to date, doesn't disappoint. That could change at any time, but until it does, they're the rock that holds PC gaming together.

 

[bunnyfubbles]

So according to BD2003 we should be thrilled Valve is going to take another $50 from us when we're not done with L4D1 yet.

Face it, while it seems amusing that we're complaining about Valve releasing a sequel too soon, its apples to oranges when considering what Valve has developed in the past. I'd more than welcome paying $50 a year for a new Half-Life (assuming its of standard length). However, L4D is essentially a multiplayer only game. You would have seen just as many pissed off players if Valve released a CS:Source 2 or a Team Fortress 3 only year after their predecessors. The closest we can relate is UT2003 and UT2004, but there was more than a year between those two games, UT2004 improved upon shortcomings and included over twice the content of UT2003, and there was even a discount offered to those who could prove they purchased '03...

Its apples and oranges when a game is based on a whole new engine and can do so much more, but as it stands the bits and pieces we've seen of L4D2 look like they'd easily be worked into L4D1.

 

[blurredvision]

Originally posted by: bunnyfubbles
So according to BD2003 we should be thrilled Valve is going to take another $50 from us when we're not done with L4D1 yet.

Nobody ever said you have to buy L4D2. Your L4D1 will still play in your console or PC, no worries.

I didn't know there was outrage about this until I read this thread just now. I think I'm going to buy L4D2 just to spite all the idiots.

 

[bunnyfubbles]

Originally posted by: peritusONE

Originally posted by: bunnyfubbles
So according to BD2003 we should be thrilled Valve is going to take another $50 from us when we're not done with L4D1 yet.

Nobody ever said you have to buy L4D2. Your L4D1 will still play in your console or PC, no worries.

I didn't know there was outrage about this until I read this thread just now. I think I'm going to buy L4D2 just to spite all the idiots.

Of course we don't have to, but we most likely will.

There's a difference between being a sheep and grudgingly walking off the cliff with the others, and being a sheep and being too stupid to know what's going on and/or happily jumping off.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQWylFmqnwM

what kind of sheep are you?

 

[BD2003]

Originally posted by: bunnyfubbles

Originally posted by: peritusONE

Originally posted by: bunnyfubbles
So according to BD2003 we should be thrilled Valve is going to take another $50 from us when we're not done with L4D1 yet.

Nobody ever said you have to buy L4D2. Your L4D1 will still play in your console or PC, no worries.

I didn't know there was outrage about this until I read this thread just now. I think I'm going to buy L4D2 just to spite all the idiots.

Of course we don't have to, but we most likely will.

There's a difference between being a sheep and grudgingly walking off the cliff with the others, and being a sheep and being too stupid to know what's going on and/or happily jumping off.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQWylFmqnwM

what kind of sheep are you?

I'm a sheep that digs a game so much he's willing to pay for a ton of new content, rather than wait 5 years and get a dribble of content in between?

Theyre not taking money from me. I'm gladly giving it to them. I'd probably give it to them year after year, assuming they continued to create quality games. I even posted in the "what do you want to see at e3 thread" that I wanted "more L4D2, but that'll never happen"....and it was totally awesome when it did.

Psst....let me tell you a secret. Valve is a business, not a friend. They're in this for the money, not the love. They may make promises, and they may break them.

All this protest will certainly have an effect - theyll prob include the old L4D maps in the new game, maybe offer a $10 discount UT style. They might even retool one of the campaigns and a new weapon or two, and work it back into L4D1, which is about what you'd expect from the TF2 free stuff model. But there is absolutely no way they are releasing this whole new game for free or for less than $50. I dont want them to cheapen the experience because of a vocal minority of absolute crybabies.

Besides, those crybabies are SO buying it anyways.

 

[Dumac]

Originally posted by: peritusONE
Nobody ever said you have to buy L4D2. Your L4D1 will still play in your console or PC, no worries.

Sure, you can still play, but the community is going to absolutely decimated. Since L4D bots are boring as hell, the online community actually matters. That's like saying EQ will still play on your PC. Sure, it will, but the community is pretty much dead with only a few hundred people on a server.

With the L4D community being decimated, its going to become harder to find a game. And the games that you do find are probably gonna have the same bozos in it over and over again.

If this was a single player game, no one would be complaining. I would gladly buy a sequel to Portal or Half-Life every year (in fact that is what we should be expecting with the damn episodic content promised from Half-Life). However, this is a primarily multiplayer game.

Not to mention that I feel like not only did I stupidly persuade myself to buy half a game with the illusion of long lasting online play, but also I was only playing a beta this whole time. Valve pushed L4D out the door so they could pump out L4D2 only a year later. They could have easily pushed back the release of L4D to add the content they are releasing in L4D2 (and before you say that pushing back a year is too big, just look at how delayed the Episodic releases are). OR they could actually spend more time on L4D2 to make a significant change from the first game.

And BD2003, stop saying those complaining will buy it. I am definitely not buying L4D2. I got burned once already; I'm not dumb enough to get burned again.

I am not buying another Valve game for a long time, and probably never a multiplayer game made by them.

 

[coloumb]

Originally posted by: Slick5150
I'd prefer knowing where the hell HL2: Ep 3 is.

:thumbsup:

Yup - where the frak is Ep 3 - or is it on the same path as Duke4ever...