too many prisoners?

zimu

Diamond Member
Jun 15, 2001
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i got this debate coming up, i need some interesting ideas, who else to ask? :)

the topic:

"Are two million prisoners in american too many or too few? why?"

any opinions truly appreciated!
 

illusion88

Lifer
Oct 2, 2001
13,164
3
81
This question can hardly be considered valid. Because if it takes 2 million prisoners to capture all the bad guys, or at least enough bad guys so there isnt much major crime, then the number is fine. If there are still bad guys running around killing people or something then its far to few. If your in some kind of debate class i would go with some argument saying that the number is dependent apon the society and its crime rates or something.
 

yellowperil

Diamond Member
Jan 17, 2000
4,598
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I would say the actual number isn't as important a gauge as the rates of incarceration. In a sense, 2 million is too much if a system is focused on preventing crime. The way our system is now with the "patch-it-up" mentality, those in charge would say 2 million is too little.
 

wfbberzerker

Lifer
Apr 12, 2001
10,423
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i think its funny that while america has only 5% of the worlds population, we have 25% of those who are in jail in the world
 

muttley

Senior member
Jun 2, 2001
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For perspective laws change and a person that is in jail a long time for some recreational drugs might be there where in latest law the person gets a slap on the wrist so to speak.
 

Infos

Diamond Member
Jul 20, 2001
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The real shame is in the federal prisons where there is a high
percentage thanks to the ridiculous US drug laws :(:eek::Q:|
 

Utterman

Platinum Member
Apr 17, 2001
2,147
0
71
boo drug laws!!!


Some of them make sence, but marijuana needs to be taken off and a lot of the people in jail will be out.
 

Czar

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
28,510
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There are about 8.000.000 prisoners in the world, and 2.000.000 of them are in the US. There probably aint to many prisoners there compared to crime, but that only shows that there are way to much crime there.
 

mastertech01

Moderator Emeritus Elite Member
Nov 13, 1999
11,875
282
126
Another highly debateable issue. You should have no problem getting arguments to last generations.

Some other countries have MUCH lower populations, thus much lower numbers. The per capita issue.

Some other countries have MUCH lower percentages in prison because they have instant retrobution against law breakers. Decapitation, bullets to the head, etc. Brutality replaces penal system issue.

Some other countries have MUCH lower crime rates. They disarm thier citizens, take away freedom of speech, strictly regulate the activities of the population, remove all influences of the rest of the world via communications. In short they are not free in any way.


SOme countries such as ours, with a constitution, laws created by the people, of the people, with a huge judicial system, prison system in a free society where there is no set standard where laws cannot be changed. A country where the press is not inhibited. A country where immorality can be sold on the street, in television, in commercials, in movies, and all sorts of media and glorified by all these means because it is the right of the citizens to choose. Where drug flow is impossible to stop, where guns are easily accessed, where poverty can ruin the values of the childen. A country where anyone can be influenced by good or bad with no one to decide for the individual what is right because that is a violation of their rights. A country where it is almost legal to do anything, and we still hear the cries of injustice for the ones who are jailed for what is still not legally acceptable behavior or actions. Our laws are questioned and challenged each and every day by all sorts for virtually any reason, and they are given the opportunity to be heard at least at some level of the justice system. Yet we are ridiculed by all the pacifists of the world because we are too harsh. Too many in prison.

For some there is no acceptable society that has prisons. Just let everyone go, to be free to do harm to its citizens, because surely they wouldn't do these things if the government hadn't failed them in some way. Educate them they say. Treat them with medical care they say. Dont regulate morality in any way. Ethical standards are individual preferences and we have no right to decide what is good or bad. Ah the perfect society... America is not the perfect society so we are condemned by the other less than perfect societies of the world, and their citizens outside looking in. Its always easy to judge and pass judgement for those who dont participate in its workings. Where are all those perfect people? Will they take one of our prisoners and take them into thier homes and take responsibility for thier actions? Im betting the government would be happy to release them all to anyone willing.

 

zimu

Diamond Member
Jun 15, 2001
6,209
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Some fantastic viewpoints here...

i'll take this a step further. how many people blame government and/or education (or lack thereof) of our current crime rate.

Anybody know any sites where i can find true statistics on these matters?

thanks people, you're awesome!
 

yellowperil

Diamond Member
Jan 17, 2000
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I believe Gallup has many polls on the issue. The two official sources of crime statistics are the Uniform Crime Reports and the National Crime Survey. Both are not good estimators on the true prevalence of crime in our society, but are better for comparing differences across years, since their methodologies of collecting data has been stable.

My belief in the cause of crime is that it is structural, not individual. I have a hard time believing that everyone in prison is there because s/he was born deviant. True, there are some cases where individual pathology plays a larger role, but for the most part I think criminals are products of their environment. In that sense I think government (and education as a subsidiary) are partly responsible because its policies (or lack thereof) affect economic and social policies which in turn affect the surroundings in which people grow up.
 

Russ

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
21,093
3
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<< There are about 8.000.000 prisoners in the world, and 2.000.000 of them are in the US. >>



A perfect example of a useless statistic. Why don't we compare the number of citizens put to death without trial?

Russ, NCNE
 

Czar

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
28,510
0
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<< Some fantastic viewpoints here...

i'll take this a step further. how many people blame government and/or education (or lack thereof) of our current crime rate.

Anybody know any sites where i can find true statistics on these matters?

thanks people, you're awesome!
>>


I suggest you find the Economists view of the year 2001, has some info about it, including that the us has 25% of the total amount of prisoners in the world.