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Too many options, brain-full light is on...

oleguy

Member
For about a year now, I've been scouting the new offerings from Intel, AMD, and Nvidia, but I never realized how complicated the rest of the DIY market had become. Because of that, I've met and exceeded my saturation level of information.

My current build is old. Real old. I'm pretty sure I've made some upgrades to it over time, but the last one of any note was adding an SSD and Win7... and that was back in 2010. My box is a Phenom II X2 550 BE w/ 4 GB of DDR3 and Radeon 4850 (purchased back in Dec 2008... yeesh). The upside is that it's only pushing pixels to an old Dell 19" monitor with a 1280 X 1024 resolution, so even more modern games still work, if not at high level.

My problems, beyond the old box, is that my use case has changed greatly over the last 5 years. I no longer game nearly as much as I used to (huzzah being married, employed full-time, and in my thirties... but no kid... yet). Most of the time, I'm browsing the internet and trolling forums, or using Office, email, and solving the great mysteries of life. And for such activities, my box is just fine. But for that 2-4 hours a week (mostly Sat. and Sun.) that I want to game, it's a dog. Neglecting the ethical and moral issues of MMOs (har), I've recently become enamored with FFXIV. In doing so, I realized that for the first time since I could actually control my computer purchases, I was hovering at the minimum spec line.

Long story short, I've realized the errors of my ways. But while picking a CPU (i5-4670K) was easy, the form factor (mATX) and motherboard (Asus ROG Gene) wasn't too hard, and AnandTech helped out on the DDR3 speed/timing questions, I'm getting lost in the forest of cases, PSUs, cooling, GPUs, and displays.

My use case does not involve overclocking. I don't have a horse in the water cooling vs. air cooling discussion. I don't care much about brands, as I've even sucked it up and accepted that Asus isn't worth disregarding anymore. But I want a machine that is quiet, will stay on 24/7 without heating the house or tripling my electric bill (it's more to do with the circuit that my computer shares and the ability to trip the breaker on power up.... never mind), and be at least capable of pushing a 1920 x 1200 display with most of the eye-candy turned on.

When idle, I would like it to be no worse than ambient noise levels, maybe just a low hum or whir in the background. No entertainment is done from this box beyond myself, so HTPC-style silence is not necessary. As far as budget, this is a bit of a dream build, and I'm dreaming of dual GPUs now with upgradability in the future to a multi-monitor setup. At the same time, Titans are not even close to realistic, and even the 780 and 290X are beyond what I think it a decent value proposition (even including the price cuts). I would like to keep the GPU spend under $700. Of course, that means it's the rebranded AMDs or the current line-up of Nvidia cards. But even with that, there is still a question on the case, cooling options, and displays (currently considering the Dell U2412M as I want a 16:10 monitor without spending $400).

Needless to say, this is long winded. I'm in the US and I tend to use Newegg. The space I have for a case is probably the exact width of the new BitFenix Phenom mATX case... or a little less. I don't have my tape measure handy to find out. If water-cooling made sense, I don't have the time for a custom loop, nor the energy to monitor it, so a CLC would be my limit. I also just look at those tower coolers and cringe... but I'm sure they don't destroy the motherboard or anything. The computer is stationary and there are no moves planned any time soon.

Anyway, looking for options and real-world experience. When I last built, Antec was the only legitimate case and PSU out there. That doesn't seem to be the case. And displays seem.... complicated. Any help is appreciated.
 
mATX case and dual gpu is a pain. I've tried it. It can be done but if you want to do it far easier its best to pick an ATX case. If width is the limiting measurement most tower ATX cases will be narrower than the bitfenix. Antec 300, corsair 300r, NZXT source 210 are all great choices for midtower atx.

79xx series cards seem to be the sweet spot IMHO. A pair of 7970's in SLI has the power to drive multi monitor setups while staying under your budget.

Hard to go wrong with Dell monitors.
 
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Have you checked the sticky? mfenn has compiled a very nice list
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2192841

Yes, I did look through it, as well as the Google Doc it linked out to. I probably shouldn't have posted last night after getting frustrated trying to sort out the wheat from the chaff for PSUs and taking my 1,000,000th look at cases.

The problem I'm running into is that I want a smaller form factor workstation, but the mATX market seems under-served right now, and mini-ITX is just too tiny. It is nice to see some newer offerings come out, but at this point, I don't have much of a handle on what hardware sites are legitimate at this point, and limited time to spend trolling through many of them to see if I can figure it out from their methodologies. Cases seem to be catering towards HTPC or overclocking, and within those spheres, water vs. air. Unless I can find a review of a specific case, looking at the specs doesn't really help me determine if, for example, the new BitFenix Phenom mATX case really had a CLC or tower cooler in mind.

For GPUs, the new R9 launch (well, some of it is new) muddied the waters in terms of varying feature sets for the same family. I understand that Mantle and TrueAudio aren't going to be present in much of anything yet, but does buying an R9 that's only a rebrand of the 7000 series, or just a remaining 7000 series card, make sense? It does seem like the GTX 700 line is fine, but I'm paralyzed by choice, as each partner seems to have their own take on the reference design. And open vs. blower coolers, don't really know at this point.

I'm just feeling a bit lost, with way too many signs pointing in different directions.
 
Can you give us a quick rundown of what you've already bought (if anything) and how much money you have for the remaining parts (total, not itemized)?
 
Can you give us a quick rundown of what you've already bought (if anything) and how much money you have for the remaining parts (total, not itemized)?

I've already decided on the i5 4670K, ASUS ROG Gene Z87, and 16GB of DDR3 2133. That leaves me without about $900 to work with and I need to decide on my case, PSU, GPU/GPUs, and cooling solution.

I probably should also budget for a 1TB HDD or so to replace the 80GB, 120 GB, and 160 GB HDDs I have that range in age from 8 to 10 years..... and suddenly now I'm afraid all three are going to die tonight.


I'm trying to build a system that checks a few boxes.
  • Gaming at 1920 x 1200
  • mATX form factor
  • Quiet, not silent
  • Remain mid-level performance after 24-30 months
  • Mostly office and browser work when not gaming
  • Games of choice are Civ5, Total War series, Bioshock series, Wasteland 2, Fallout... not many FPS quick-twitch games
To dual or not to dual, that is a question. If spending $500 on one GPU provides better performance than two $200 to $250 GPUs, that's fine. I'm okay with a case that can't fit an ODD if one uses a second GPU or radiator, as my current ODD needs replacement and being portable could be a benefit. Cooling is driven by being quiet and potent. It doesn't need to overclock, but I want it to keep the components in question cool enough to keep fan speed low. CLC or air, I don't care (but no custom loops, and I've never installed a waterblock on a GPU... but expandability might be a consideration). But liquid vs. air ultimately dictates the case it seems.

And then the PSU bit.... I've been partial to Antec, but other than the addition of the Platinum certification, I get a bit blitzed when I start reading PSU specs. comparisons, and using calculators to figure out wattage need.
 
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I probably should also budget for a 1TB HDD or so to replace the 80GB, 120 GB, and 160 GB HDDs I have that range in age from 8 to 10 years..... and suddenly now I'm afraid all three are going to die tonight.

And yes, I just confirmed that 80GB HDD was purchased in June of 2002.... so actually it's 11 years old. It was my main system drive until I got an SSD at the end of 2010... and my box was on pretty much 24/7 during that time. That's some impressive longevity for a WD drive.

But man do I need a system rebuild....
 
I've already decided on the i5 4670K, ASUS ROG Gene Z87, and 16GB of DDR3 2133. That leaves me without about $900 to work with and I need to decide on my case, PSU, GPU/GPUs, and cooling solution.

What does "decided on" mean? Have you bought those parts? I ask because I can tell you right now that that mobo and RAM are a waste of money.

What is your total budget for parts that you haven't physically purchased?
 
What does "decided on" mean? Have you bought those parts? I ask because I can tell you right now that that mobo and RAM are a waste of money.

What is your total budget for parts that you haven't physically purchased?

I haven't bought anything at this time. I am curious why you find the MB and RAM to be a waste of cash. For background, the MB was picked on the basis that is supports a dual GPU setup (something I am now reconsidering, at least immediately) as well as the attention to audio. Since I have no desire to buy a discrete audio card (if such things even still exist), I want to make sure I'm at least getting the best audio I can integrated into the MB. While I know ASRock reviews well, the comments on Newegg give me pause. And by limiting myself to mATX, there are a total of 9 MBs available at Newegg right now that use the Z87 chipset.

As far as the RAM, I'm looking at the results recently published by Anandtech and the price differences between the various speeds. In fact, it's cheaper for DDR3 2133 CL9 than DDR3 1866 CL8, while the former provides a small performance boot. Haswell seems to enjoy anything that is more than DDR3 1600, and given the price difference, the DDR 2133 CL9 seems better than the DDR3 1866 CL8.
 
AFAIK Haswell enjoys higher clock memory if using the iGPU. Not necessary in your config.

The MB is great if your going with 2 GPU's. The pro's of 2 GPU is better performance in certain titles. The cons list is long and varies, especially for a mATX buld. It adds quiet a bit of complexity to the equation. If you think your brain is full now it's gonna splode under the dual gpu load.

By going with a less expensive mobo that doesn't require 2 x16 pcie you have more for a single card..... like a gtx 780. A decent one will run cooler, quieter, and use much less power than a dual gpu setup. While the future is hard to predict it will likely be no lower than mid range in 2 years.
 
I haven't bought anything at this time. I am curious why you find the MB and RAM to be a waste of cash. For background, the MB was picked on the basis that is supports a dual GPU setup (something I am now reconsidering, at least immediately) as well as the attention to audio. Since I have no desire to buy a discrete audio card (if such things even still exist), I want to make sure I'm at least getting the best audio I can integrated into the MB. While I know ASRock reviews well, the comments on Newegg give me pause. And by limiting myself to mATX, there are a total of 9 MBs available at Newegg right now that use the Z87 chipset.

As far as the RAM, I'm looking at the results recently published by Anandtech and the price differences between the various speeds. In fact, it's cheaper for DDR3 2133 CL9 than DDR3 1866 CL8, while the former provides a small performance boot. Haswell seems to enjoy anything that is more than DDR3 1600, and given the price difference, the DDR 2133 CL9 seems better than the DDR3 1866 CL8.

He said its crap because the ROG/fast ram is bad value for money. You'll get more satisfaction by using the savings towards an upgrade down the road. The ROG is more for someone with a clear acrylic case with sparkly lights under water. The advantage for faster memory is vanishingly small for discrete gpu gamers. I doubt your main aim is to run winrar over and over again.

Theres a silverstone ft03 which is really unique and actually not so good value but its interesting enough for someone who really needs a small case.
 
He said its crap because the ROG/fast ram is bad value for money. You'll get more satisfaction by using the savings towards an upgrade down the road. The ROG is more for someone with a clear acrylic case with sparkly lights under water. The advantage for faster memory is vanishingly small for discrete gpu gamers. I doubt your main aim is to run winrar over and over again.

Theres a silverstone ft03 which is really unique and actually not so good value but its interesting enough for someone who really needs a small case.

As far as the MB, I don't like the price. But I want to preserve some of the overclocking ability that you can get with the Z87 chipset, like the multiplier bump, which combined with the mATX form factor, limits me to about 9 boards at Newegg (there may be more, but it's my reseller of choice). Of those boards, only a few come with something more than bargain-basement Realtek chips:


  • ASRock Extreme4 (ALC1150)
  • ASRock OC Formula (ALC1150)
  • ASUS Maximus VI Gene (SupremeFX, which I think is just ALC1150 with special shielding)

There are some that have ALC892, and I will admit that it's been hard to find anything that directly compares the two in a meaningful way, so I could be dismissing them prematurely. But since I have no desire for a discrete audio card and I will be getting a nice surround system set up as soon as I complete my office, it makes sense to place audio components on the list as make-or-break options. WiFi is not really a thing I care about at this point, I don't know enough about the merits of dual NIC to place any weight on it, and as I plan on using an external ODD, having good USB 3.0 performance without killing the CPU would be nice.

I want to be clear I'm open to better suggestions, as that's kind of the purpose of my post. I just want to provide the reasoning that lead to my decisions, in hopes that if I missed a signpost along the way, someone can point it out to me and I can reassess.

As far as the case, I was looking at the SilverStone Temjin TJ08B-E and its cheaper cousin the Precision PS07, but I haven't had much luck finding comparisons between the two to see if the extra $20 is worth it. This was if I was going the air cooling route.
 
Corsair 350D - $80
GTX 780 - $510 w/ 3 games
16GB Crucial Ballistix Sport - $120

Ditch the mobo in favor of an h87 and get a non-k processor like the i5-4570

When I look at the mATX landscape for H87, I see very few quality audio solutions. A few feature the ALC892 solution, but I don't know how it compares to the ALC1150 that is found paired in some Z87 solutions.

The other thing I see is that DDR3 speed tops out at 1600. When I picked the DDR3 2133 CL9 solution, it was on the basis of the recent AT article looking at memory speed and timings for the Haswell platform. The real-world compute tests seemed to benefit quite a bit by going from 1600 to 1866 and 2133, and since the price difference between 1866 and 2133 is tiny, it made sense at the time to pick what I did. Yes, discrete graphics did not seem to benefit, but I do enough office-type tasks (spreadsheets, personal databases, analysis, etc.) that the extra memory speed would be beneficial for the extra $40.

But again, if there is other information to consider, please let me know.
 
He said its crap because the ROG/fast ram is bad value for money. You'll get more satisfaction by using the savings towards an upgrade down the road. The ROG is more for someone with a clear acrylic case with sparkly lights under water. The advantage for faster memory is vanishingly small for discrete gpu gamers. I doubt your main aim is to run winrar over and over again.

I didn't say it was crap (it's not), but it is absolutely bad value for money. I also agree with your other points.
 
When I look at the mATX landscape for H87, I see very few quality audio solutions. A few feature the ALC892 solution, but I don't know how it compares to the ALC1150 that is found paired in some Z87 solutions.

My opinion on audio is that if you really care about audio quality, it is worhwhile to get a system that can accept a digital input from the PC. Most every motherboard provides a good quality digital output. The reason for this is that the inside of a PC is a constant EMI storm which is detrimental to the D/A converter built into the audio codec.

A secondary consideration is cost, audio components change much more slowly than PC components, so why force yourself to re-buy an expensive motherboard every time?

Given all of that, I think the GA-Z87MX-D3H is a good choice for you at $125.

The other thing I see is that DDR3 speed tops out at 1600. When I picked the DDR3 2133 CL9 solution, it was on the basis of the recent AT article looking at memory speed and timings for the Haswell platform. The real-world compute tests seemed to benefit quite a bit by going from 1600 to 1866 and 2133, and since the price difference between 1866 and 2133 is tiny, it made sense at the time to pick what I did. Yes, discrete graphics did not seem to benefit, but I do enough office-type tasks (spreadsheets, personal databases, analysis, etc.) that the extra memory speed would be beneficial for the extra $40.

I assume that you're referring to this article? The computational tests that Ian ran are nowhere near what an office task is. They're hardcore finite-element and finite-difference calculations like you'd run in a research lab. Even then, the average difference between DDR3 1600 CAS 9 and the best performer was something like 3%. So no, the data does not bear out the conclusion that fast RAM is worth the money. It's barely any better in a set of tasks that bear little resemblance to what you're actually doing. I think the Crucial Ballistic Sport DDR3 1600 for $128 is a great choice.

Can you let me know how much you had budgeted for the CPU, mobo, and RAM so that I can calculate your total budget?
 
I didn't say it was crap (it's not), but it is absolutely bad value for money. I also agree with your other points.

I agree that it isn't a great value, but when I first started looking after Haswell came out, I felt like I was over a barrel in regard to what feature-set I wanted (or thought I did) and what is available.

However, I have now looked a little closer at the mATX ASRock options and I can't really remember why I decided on Asus over ASRock, other than the BIOS hang issue that Newegg customers and Ian reported for the ATX version of the OC Formula. It does look like that might be cleared up now. I also think the price differences weren't as stark as they are now (ASUS was around $200 while the ASRock was around $180 or $190). I see the ASRock OC Formula is now down to $165 while the ASUS is up to $210... which is a rather large amount, and even more glaring with Extreme4 down to $125.

I guess with that, either ASRock would work, and I would probably lean towards the Extreme both because it's $40 cheaper and seems to have most of the feature set I care about. However, if someone could come up with a reason why that $40 is worthwhile for someone who probably would only overclock using the Turbo Boost option, I'm happy to listen.
 
I guess with that, either ASRock would work, and I would probably lean towards the Extreme both because it's $40 cheaper and seems to have most of the feature set I care about. However, if someone could come up with a reason why that $40 is worthwhile for someone who probably would only overclock using the Turbo Boost option, I'm happy to listen.

I don't think you'll find that person, at least not here. The purpose of the tweaker boards is to (a) separate fools from their money and (b0 provide for extreme overclocking. Since you're neither a fool nor an extreme overclocker, I don't think there's much in it for you.
 
I assume that you're referring to this article? The computational tests that Ian ran are nowhere near what an office task is. They're hardcore finite-element and finite-difference calculations like you'd run in a research lab. Even then, the average difference between DDR3 1600 CAS 9 and the best performer was something like 3%. So no, the data does not bear out the conclusion that fast RAM is worth the money. It's barely any better in a set of tasks that bear little resemblance to what you're actually doing. I think the Crucial Ballistic Sport DDR3 1600 for $128 is a great choice.

Can you let me know how much you had budgeted for the CPU, mobo, and RAM so that I can calculate your total budget?

I was actually looking at the WinRAR and video encode tests, because yeah, I don't do research simulation (which showed little improvement from faster memory, for the most part). And since Civ5 was not included in the gaming benchmarks, it's hard to make a complete comparison for a gaming application that I use a lot. So besides the "real-world" CPU tests, I'm going on the conclusion at the end of the article. And considering the cost increase of $35 from the Crucial DDR3 1600 to a G.Skill DDR 2133, which is only a 2.5% increase using a total budget of $1500, it's inline with the performance increase.

For a budget, I was targeting around $1500. Based on the i5 at $240, now $125 for mobo (ASRock Extreme4, previous post), and $165 for the RAM, that actually leaves me just a bit under $1,000; about half of that is probably for a GPU (GTX 780, post price cut with game bundle seems to be ideal at this point). And since I'm not in a hurry at this point and we are approaching the sale season, I'm not beyond waiting for Newegg to run promos and get items piece by piece... unless it socks me with a lot of excess shipping costs.

Thanks for the help so far. While I might not be taking your exact suggestions, you are effectively forcing me to re-evaluate both the choices I had thought I had already made, and so far has saved me around $100.
 
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I absolutely do not agree with cherry-picking the most favorable benchmark and using that to support a purchasing decision. Ian's conclusion in that article simply does not fit the data, and has been criticized here and elsewhere (rightly so IMHO). It's your money at the end of the day, but I cannot recommend spending extra on DDR3 2133.

Overall, here's what I'd be looking at in your situation:

i5 4670K $240
Gigabyte GA-Z87MX-D3H $125 - x8/x8 capable unlike the ASRock Z87M Extreme4
Team DDR3 1600 16GB $115
Zotac GTX 780 Reference
$500 - A 290X is better bang for the buck, but you can actually buy the 780 Reference is good for small case because it uses a fully exhausting blower
Samsung 840 EVO 250 GB $175 - or reuse current SSD?
WD Blue 1TB $60 AP
Lite-ON DVD Burner $15 AP
XFX Core 650W $70 AR
Silverstone TJ08B $100 - Narrower than the Phenom and has a bigger front fan (180mm vs 120mm)
Noctua U12P $73 - SPCR got one in there no problem
Total: $1473 AR AP
 
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Overall, here's what I'd be looking at in your situation:

i5 4670K $240
Gigabyte GA-Z87MX-D3H $125 - x8/x8 capable unlike the ASRock Z87M Extreme4
Team DDR3 1600 16GB $115
Zotac GTX 780 Reference
$500 - A 290X is better bang for the buck, but you can actually buy the 780 Reference is good for small case because it uses a fully exhausting blower
Samsung 840 EVO 250 GB $175 - or reuse current SSD?
WD Blue 1TB $60 AP
Lite-ON DVD Burner $15 AP
XFX Core 650W $70 AR
Silverstone TJ08B $100 - Narrower than the Phenom and has a bigger front fan (180mm vs 120mm)
Noctua U12P $73 - SPCR got one in there no problem
Total: $1473 AR AP

Your list is pretty close to what I came up with over the week of this thread. Both the cooler and case were the ones I had selected. While having over a pound of metal and plastic hanging perpendicular off the board seems precarious at best, I just need to get over that. Presumably, the only time those suckers cause damage or anything is if the case if moved frequently, or transported in a car improperly (not laid down flat).

I will be reusing my 128GB SSD for the time being, even though it's about 70% full (plus spare). Steam (finally!) allows you to install games where you choose instead of the same location Steam is installed. That means my older games that don't have a lot of load times can stay on the HDD, which is actually where I'm running out of room (going from 320GB total to 1TB will be more than ample). The SSD is something I will probably replace in a year or two.

As far as PSU, does that fact my computer stays on 24/7, usually doing something, mean that I should try for something more efficient or longer warranty? [edit: I see that the PSU in question has a 4 yr limited... though I don't know what limited means in this exact case] I have a variety of objects in my house that communicate back via USB dongles to record data.... it's a thing I do.

I had settled on the 780 as well, mostly on the basis of game bundle and new price cuts. One thing I have seen debated but not really settled (in my research here) is the open vs. blower debate. I know that a smaller mATX case is going to be hotter, and having the GPU vent into the case will raise the temps a bit, does it really matter if there is a large 180mm fan pushing fresh air into the case all the time? It seems that air-cooling performance for the SilverStone is outstanding, so is it really a cramped and hot environment like other mATX cases? While it does look like the reference blower is about as good as blowers get for, it's still louder and hotter than the open fan designs. The hotter doesn't bother me as much as the louder part. Will my other components really suffer than much with an open cooler?

One last piece. Where are you seeing that the ASRock doesn't support x8/x8? ASRock's site says it would run x8/x8 is using slots 1 and 3, not that I probably care now that a dual GPU setup is unlikely.
 
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Your list is pretty close to what I came up with over the week of this thread. Both the cooler and case were the ones I had selected. While having over a pound of metal and plastic hanging perpendicular off the board seems precarious at best, I just need to get over that. Presumably, the only time those suckers cause damage or anything is if the case if moved frequently, or transported in a car improperly (not laid down flat).

The Temjin actually comes with HSF stabilizer that helps support big coolers. I wouldn't recommend handing it off to FedEx or UPS with the cooler attached, but it will be fine being moved around the house or transported in a personal vehicle.

As far as PSU, does that fact my computer stays on 24/7, usually doing something, mean that I should try for something more efficient or longer warranty? [edit: I see that the PSU in question has a 4 yr limited... though I don't know what limited means in this exact case] I have a variety of objects in my house that communicate back via USB dongles to record data.... it's a thing I do.

"Limited warranty" is a legal term which means that some rights are reserved. This is pretty typical for any product these days: the company isn't going to shell out if you intentionally damage the product.

The XFX is built on a quite excellent Seasonic platform, I would not expect any reliability issues. You could buy a more efficient PSU, but you'd probably hit the break-even point right about the time you were ready to replace it.

I had settled on the 780 as well, mostly on the basis of game bundle and new price cuts. One thing I have seen debated but not really settled (in my research here) is the open vs. blower debate. I know that a smaller mATX case is going to be hotter, and having the GPU vent into the case will raise the temps a bit, does it really matter if there is a large 180mm fan pushing fresh air into the case all the time? It seems that air-cooling performance for the SilverStone is outstanding, so is it really a cramped and hot environment like other mATX cases? While it does look like the reference blower is about as good as blowers get for, it's still louder and hotter than the open fan designs. The hotter doesn't bother me as much as the louder part. Will my other components really suffer than much with an open cooler?

The Temjin is pretty small. It's not really an issue of warming up other components as much as there's no exhaust between the GPU and the top of the PSU. The open air cooler exhausts air into a small space which it can't help but recirculate, leading to a feedback loop. This is not as big of a deal in a full ATX case because there is a lot more free air below the card.

The GTX 780 reference cooler is also a massively overbuilt hunk of copper and aluminum. You won't find that in most of the aftermarket ones.

One last piece. Where are you seeing that the ASRock doesn't support x8/x8? ASRock's site says it would run x8/x8 is using slots 1 and 3, not that I probably care now that a dual GPU setup is unlikely.

Nevermind that, that's what I get for trusting Newegg's specs.
 
The Temjin is pretty small. It's not really an issue of warming up other components as much as there's no exhaust between the GPU and the top of the PSU. The open air cooler exhausts air into a small space which it can't help but recirculate, leading to a feedback loop. This is not as big of a deal in a full ATX case because there is a lot more free air below the card.

When I first read that, I was a bit perplexed because I had both forgotten two trends in case design that didn't exist my last build: Flipping the board around plus placement of the PSU on the bottom of the case. And with the Temjin, they really just turn the whole thing upside-down to put the PCI slots at the top, near the PSU. Not sure that makes things better or worse for an open fan or not. Since I'm still probably a few weeks away from having the time to do a build, I can think about it more and look around to see if anyone has done any real tests to this point.

"Limited warranty" is a legal term which means that some rights are reserved. This is pretty typical for any product these days: the company isn't going to shell out if you intentionally damage the product. The XFX is built on a quite excellent Seasonic platform, I would not expect any reliability issues. You could buy a more efficient PSU, but you'd probably hit the break-even point right about the time you were ready to replace it.

I didn't realize that the XFX's guts were built by SeaSonic (something I could have checked here at AT). Though, with an mATX case, it seems like it might be worth the extra $10 for the modular version, just to cut back on cable clutter.
 
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