Tom's Hardware Analyzes the AMD 2100+
- Thread starter JellyBaby
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Interesting. Tomshardware says AMD will release an AXP 2200+ (1.8GHz) based on the .18-micron Palomino core in a matter of weeks (presumably when Intel launches the 2.4GHz 400MHz FSB P4?s in early April).
Tomshardware also mentions that Thoroughbred will be launched at 1.87GHz (2300+) instead of 1.8GHz (2200+) during the 2nd quarter. Therefore it?s likely that AMD will release 1.87GHz Tbreds when Intel releases 2.4GHz (533MHz FSB) P4's (which is scheduled for mid to late May).
Tomshardware also mentions that Thoroughbred will be launched at 1.87GHz (2300+) instead of 1.8GHz (2200+) during the 2nd quarter. Therefore it?s likely that AMD will release 1.87GHz Tbreds when Intel releases 2.4GHz (533MHz FSB) P4's (which is scheduled for mid to late May).
Must not be a repost. 
I disagree with their conclusion, "The Athlon XP 2100+ Outclasses the Pentium 4/2200". More like "edges it out in some benchmarks". It's also quite telling that in the conclusion they constantly refer to what AMD will deliver soon rather than extolling the virtues of the chip that "outclasses" Intel's best. There's also no mention of the 2100+'s extreme power consumption figure in the conclusion. Bias?
On the other hand every benchmark suite did include future P4 NW 533 MHz FSB numbers, too.
I disagree with their conclusion, "The Athlon XP 2100+ Outclasses the Pentium 4/2200". More like "edges it out in some benchmarks". It's also quite telling that in the conclusion they constantly refer to what AMD will deliver soon rather than extolling the virtues of the chip that "outclasses" Intel's best. There's also no mention of the 2100+'s extreme power consumption figure in the conclusion. Bias?
On the other hand every benchmark suite did include future P4 NW 533 MHz FSB numbers, too.
Nice read...I think I would give the nod to the 2100+ versus current p4 2.2 northwood at default....BUt I would likely bet most are getting those 2.2ghz to 2.6ghz and the 2100+ will be a tough sell to get much above 2200+ with conventional cooling...Northwood should pull away then...
While great news that amd is still in the thick of it to keep intel honest in pricing, I have to admit my p4 1.8@2.52 (560fsb) 350mhz ddr would still stay ahead of it. With these results and looking at xp 1800-2000 models it is clear to see that it will take a 2300+ level chip to equal my chip...So in conclusion my 340 dollar investment is still a better deal then even a xp 2100+ which is likely to run 300.00 dollars w/ a mediocre hsf. Also no ceiling to irk anything else out of it...
I like to see intel and AMD trading spaces at number 1...For all of us customers this competition translates into great prices and innovations.
Also I hope by the time my chip starts feeling a little tight in performancerace the dual channel ddr boards will be out...does anybody know if any non-via boards will have dual channel ddr for amd systems???
While great news that amd is still in the thick of it to keep intel honest in pricing, I have to admit my p4 1.8@2.52 (560fsb) 350mhz ddr would still stay ahead of it. With these results and looking at xp 1800-2000 models it is clear to see that it will take a 2300+ level chip to equal my chip...So in conclusion my 340 dollar investment is still a better deal then even a xp 2100+ which is likely to run 300.00 dollars w/ a mediocre hsf. Also no ceiling to irk anything else out of it...
I like to see intel and AMD trading spaces at number 1...For all of us customers this competition translates into great prices and innovations.
Also I hope by the time my chip starts feeling a little tight in performancerace the dual channel ddr boards will be out...does anybody know if any non-via boards will have dual channel ddr for amd systems???
does anybody know if any non-via boards will have dual channel ddr for amd systems???
Yes, it's called the nForce 415-D and 420-D chipset. ASUS, MSI, and ABit have boards based on these chipsets with dual channel DDR technology.
If you meant Intel systems (and not AMD) supposedly Intel is supposed to come out with an i845 chipset that supports dual channel DDR memory, however this hasn't been confirmed by any reliable IT news web sites that I've seen...
Yes, it's called the nForce 415-D and 420-D chipset. ASUS, MSI, and ABit have boards based on these chipsets with dual channel DDR technology.
If you meant Intel systems (and not AMD) supposedly Intel is supposed to come out with an i845 chipset that supports dual channel DDR memory, however this hasn't been confirmed by any reliable IT news web sites that I've seen...
"Interesting. Tomshardware says AMD will release an AXP 2200+ (1.8GHz) based on the .18-micron Palomino core in a matter of weeks (presumably when Intel launches the 2.4GHz 400MHz FSB P4?s in early April).
Tomshardware also mentions that Thoroughbred will be launched at 1.87GHz (2300+) instead of 1.8GHz (2200+) during the 2nd quarter. Therefore it?s likely that AMD will release 1.87GHz Tbreds when Intel releases 2.4GHz (533MHz FSB) P4's (which is scheduled for mid to late May)."
Toms just got it wrong:
HANOVER, Germany--(BUSINESS WIRE)--March 13, 2002--At CeBIT, AMD (NYSE:AMD - news) today announced that it plans to begin shipping AMD Athlon(TM) XP processors codenamed ``Thoroughbred'' based on .13 micron technology to customers later this month.
Link
Tomshardware also mentions that Thoroughbred will be launched at 1.87GHz (2300+) instead of 1.8GHz (2200+) during the 2nd quarter. Therefore it?s likely that AMD will release 1.87GHz Tbreds when Intel releases 2.4GHz (533MHz FSB) P4's (which is scheduled for mid to late May)."
Toms just got it wrong:
HANOVER, Germany--(BUSINESS WIRE)--March 13, 2002--At CeBIT, AMD (NYSE:AMD - news) today announced that it plans to begin shipping AMD Athlon(TM) XP processors codenamed ``Thoroughbred'' based on .13 micron technology to customers later this month.
Link
Those are current nforce boards now, right?? Why not much improvement in available bandwidth? Is it unlikely the amd xp's can handle anymore until they bump the bus to 333mhz???
the dual channel ddrplatform on a p4 sounds like it has much more room to grow as current 33mhz ddr and even 400ddr can't fulfill all the p4's ability in bandwidth....
Spread the knowledge!!!!
the dual channel ddrplatform on a p4 sounds like it has much more room to grow as current 33mhz ddr and even 400ddr can't fulfill all the p4's ability in bandwidth....
Spread the knowledge!!!!
If you're considering price/performance alone, Athlon wins (as AMD usually does). If you're also considering other factors, then personal bias comes in (for whichever processor you decide to choose).
Those are current nforce boards now, right?? Why not much improvement in available bandwidth? Is it unlikely the amd xp's can handle anymore until they bump the bus to 333mhz???
nForce boards would perform a lot better if they were to use a 333MHz FSB K7. However, I doubt 333MHz FSB K7's will ever show (although they might). Clearly, the P4 will be better able to take advantage of dual channel DDR technology due to it's 400MHz (and soon 533MHz) FSB.
Toms just got it wrong...
If you read a little more closely, you'll see that AMD says it's shipping Tbred processors by the end of March; that doesn't mean they'll be selling in retail channels for us to grab. And there's also no guarantee that AMD is saying that they will ship desktop Tbreds by the end of this month, they could be talking about mobile Tbreds shipping at the end of this month (which is more likely IMO).
nForce boards would perform a lot better if they were to use a 333MHz FSB K7. However, I doubt 333MHz FSB K7's will ever show (although they might). Clearly, the P4 will be better able to take advantage of dual channel DDR technology due to it's 400MHz (and soon 533MHz) FSB.
Toms just got it wrong...
If you read a little more closely, you'll see that AMD says it's shipping Tbred processors by the end of March; that doesn't mean they'll be selling in retail channels for us to grab. And there's also no guarantee that AMD is saying that they will ship desktop Tbreds by the end of this month, they could be talking about mobile Tbreds shipping at the end of this month (which is more likely IMO).
Yes but in the days many (PPL IN THIS FORUM) also equated that to the overclockability....In terms of that, nothing touches the 1.6a and 1.8a northwoods for price performance...
At default speed you are absolutely right!!!
Where else have you seen an athlon over 1ghz oc 50percent and only take about .15v more and still run cooler with a retail heatsink then any stock athlon xp chip w/ reatil fan would. NOrthwood ocing is like ppl running with super unleaded gasoline...NOt much risk with the hermal throttling capabiilties.
In my year and a half with tbirds I have never had OCING like this...Quiet, Less heat then my tbird 1.4 ran under, 1 less case fan, hsf runs 4000rpm versus 6400rpms, absolutey rock solid...I always thought an occasional BSOD or freeze up was the nature of the game with ocing, haven't seen that sh^t on my p4 board.
I also think price bang for the buck is also at lower speeds such as 1800 and 1900 xp chips....Each can oc a bit more then the 2100 will be capable of, and each will cost about a 2/3 to 1/2 less for only 200-133mhz less....
At default speed you are absolutely right!!!
Where else have you seen an athlon over 1ghz oc 50percent and only take about .15v more and still run cooler with a retail heatsink then any stock athlon xp chip w/ reatil fan would. NOrthwood ocing is like ppl running with super unleaded gasoline...NOt much risk with the hermal throttling capabiilties.
In my year and a half with tbirds I have never had OCING like this...Quiet, Less heat then my tbird 1.4 ran under, 1 less case fan, hsf runs 4000rpm versus 6400rpms, absolutey rock solid...I always thought an occasional BSOD or freeze up was the nature of the game with ocing, haven't seen that sh^t on my p4 board.
I also think price bang for the buck is also at lower speeds such as 1800 and 1900 xp chips....Each can oc a bit more then the 2100 will be capable of, and each will cost about a 2/3 to 1/2 less for only 200-133mhz less....
Does anybody want to take a guess at where 0.13 Thoroughbreds are going to top out. I heard it was at 2200 megahertz. A key influence supposedly being the considerable heat concentrated in a rather small die size. Not that AMD can't put a heatspreader on.
"Toms just got it wrong...
If you read a little more closely, you'll see that AMD says it's shipping Tbred processors by the end of March; that doesn't mean they'll be selling in retail channels for us to grab. And there's also no guarantee that AMD is saying that they will ship desktop Tbreds by the end of this month, they could be talking about mobile Tbreds shipping at the end of this month (which is more likely IMO)."
From Anand:
According to AMD's press-release just put out today, the first 0.13-micron Thoroughbred CPUs will be shipping to OEMs by the end of this month. It'll be another few weeks after that before end users can get their hands on the first 2200+ CPUs but those will be a much better buy to look for than this 2100+, the reason being that they'll have a bit more overclocking headroom and will run cooler.
So, I now see your point on the Tbreds being available a few weeks after they ship. However, the press release for the .13micron processors states, "AMD (NYSE:AMD - news) today announced that it plans to begin shipping AMD Athlon(TM) XP processors codenamed ``Thoroughbred'' based on .13 micron technology to customers later this month." The mobile parts are NOT labeled as XP's, they are Athlon 4's. So they are most likely talking about desktop tbreds.
If you read a little more closely, you'll see that AMD says it's shipping Tbred processors by the end of March; that doesn't mean they'll be selling in retail channels for us to grab. And there's also no guarantee that AMD is saying that they will ship desktop Tbreds by the end of this month, they could be talking about mobile Tbreds shipping at the end of this month (which is more likely IMO)."
From Anand:
According to AMD's press-release just put out today, the first 0.13-micron Thoroughbred CPUs will be shipping to OEMs by the end of this month. It'll be another few weeks after that before end users can get their hands on the first 2200+ CPUs but those will be a much better buy to look for than this 2100+, the reason being that they'll have a bit more overclocking headroom and will run cooler.
So, I now see your point on the Tbreds being available a few weeks after they ship. However, the press release for the .13micron processors states, "AMD (NYSE:AMD - news) today announced that it plans to begin shipping AMD Athlon(TM) XP processors codenamed ``Thoroughbred'' based on .13 micron technology to customers later this month." The mobile parts are NOT labeled as XP's, they are Athlon 4's. So they are most likely talking about desktop tbreds.
From Anand's review:
<< Additional L2 cache will be necessary however to bridge the gap between the Athlon XP and the Northwood, which could point at a reason for outfitting the Thoroughbred core with more cache. >>
Very interesting. There has been quite a debate over cache size of the thoroughbred for a long time now. Most people didn't think AMD would do it (increae cache size to 512K) . I think AMD that will mirror intel (with the northwood) here. Does Anand know more than he is telling?
Greg
<< Additional L2 cache will be necessary however to bridge the gap between the Athlon XP and the Northwood, which could point at a reason for outfitting the Thoroughbred core with more cache. >>
Very interesting. There has been quite a debate over cache size of the thoroughbred for a long time now. Most people didn't think AMD would do it (increae cache size to 512K) . I think AMD that will mirror intel (with the northwood) here. Does Anand know more than he is telling?
Greg
I read on cnet that amd plans to have all it's athlons on the .13u process by the end of the year. I'm wondering if they will have chips as slow as 1.53G (XP 1800+) on this process or not. My guess is yes, but I'm wondering if anyone else has any better idea. The reason is that the fastest chip my motherboard supports is the XP 1800+ so if it will be made on .13u I want to wait to buy.
Very interesting. There has been quite a debate over cache size of the thoroughbred for a long time now. Most people didn't think AMD would do it (increae cache size to 512K) . I think AMD that will mirror intel (with the northwood) here. Does Anand know more than he is telling?
You mean he is pushing our nose onto something he can't say cause of an NDA?
BTW, I wonder if just adding cache to a an Athlon would help it much. It did not do that much for Northwood compared to Williamette and those two seem to have worse L1 cache design.
You mean he is pushing our nose onto something he can't say cause of an NDA
?BTW, I wonder if just adding cache to a an Athlon would help it much. It did not do that much for Northwood compared to Williamette and those two seem to have worse L1 cache design.
<< BTW, I wonder if just adding cache to a an Athlon would help it much. >>
Im hoping that some extra cache may do for the Athlon what extra cash did for the P3 when it went Tualatin S maybe?
With the Northy going 533 fsb and upping the mhz, AMD will need more than just a die shrink, yeah? or theyre going to be out of the game till Hammer
Im hoping that some extra cache may do for the Athlon what extra cash did for the P3 when it went Tualatin S maybe?
Well I'm hoping that too. I must admit that I don't know enough about processor design to have a good idea what a Tbred/512k cache could do.
In case of the P3-S, did the large cache help overcome bandwith limitations (as in "CPU isn't forced to access slow SDRAM so often because of high cache hit rate")?
With the Northy going 533 fsb and upping the mhz, AMD will need more than just a die shrink, yeah? or theyre going to be out of the game till Hammer
Perhaps they should do the same (upping FSB that is). Why aren't they doing this? Takes too much time to get a new memory standard like PC2700 to settle in?
Well I'm hoping that too. I must admit that I don't know enough about processor design to have a good idea what a Tbred/512k cache could do.
In case of the P3-S, did the large cache help overcome bandwith limitations (as in "CPU isn't forced to access slow SDRAM so often because of high cache hit rate")?
With the Northy going 533 fsb and upping the mhz, AMD will need more than just a die shrink, yeah? or theyre going to be out of the game till Hammer
Perhaps they should do the same (upping FSB that is). Why aren't they doing this? Takes too much time to get a new memory standard like PC2700 to settle in?
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