sandorski
No Lifer
- Oct 10, 1999
- 70,213
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Last night while looking for something to watch on the tube, I came across an interesting historical show. It was part of a series that I haven't watched, but seems interesting in light of this thread and other recent events. The series is titled "Sin Cities" and this particular part was subtitled "Berlin". The time period was 1920s-1930s. What was interesting about it, should be obvious, was that it coincided with the rise of Naziism and how the state of Berlin at that time affected that rise.
Most are aware of the situation Germany was in at the end of WW1. Economic Depression, ridiculous Inflation(by the time you took money out of the Bank and reached the Store prices had gone up!), and crippling hardship. Berlin found a way to deal with this hardship thouugh, it turned to Prostitution. Not figuretively, literally. Everyone became a Prostitute, Women, Men, Children, Husbands/Wives, the Disabled. People the world over flocked to Berlin to have their sexual fantasies fulfilled and Berliners even invented a few new fantasies. This worked quite well for Berliners, although I think we can all agree that it had turned into a disgusting place.
Enter the Nazis. The Nazis rose up from the Conservative Countryside which was thoroughly disgusted with the Liberal Berlin. During this rise Hitler sent Goebbels to Berlin in an attempt(eventually successful) to convince Berliners to join the Nazi cause. Nazis and Socialists clashed regularly, people were executed, and eventually many of the Elite of Berlin fled the country as Nazis took over and began shutting down the Clubs that were everywhere in Berlin. One era ended another began.
"Godwins Law" aside, I think the parallel is interesting, though certainly not on the same scale. I think above all it shows how a split Society can adopt Extremism and lead to tragedy. Most of that split is caused by Isolation(lack of experience) and Insulation(refusal to experience). Country folk don't understand City folk and vice-versa. Sounds like a problem where a Student Exchange program can come in handy.
Getting back to the premise of the thread, Hollywood and New York do, IMO, a fairly decent job of representing the US outside of their Centers, but they should be forgiven for focussing on what they know best. I find the whole Conservative/Liberal Red/Blue Country/City split in the US rather perplexing. The split seems to be a tempest in a teapot, a fabrication useful for both the Republicans and Democrats to maintain the 2 Party state(Conspiracy!
). The whole population is so wound up in minute differences that they have no time to consider New Ideas or even New Directions that are available for them to choose from.
I'll end this post with a quote from the great German Historical Philosophist Oswald Spengler:
?The press today is an army with carefully organized weapons, the journalists its officers, the readers its soldiers. But, as in every army, the soldier obeys blindly, and the war aims and operating plans change without his knowledge. The reader neither knows nor is supposed to know the purposes for which he is used and the role he is to play. There is no more appalling caricature of freedom of thought. Formerly no one was allowed to think freely; now it is permitted, but no one is capable of it any more. Now people want to think only what they are supposed to want to think, and this they consider freedom.?
edit: spelling
Most are aware of the situation Germany was in at the end of WW1. Economic Depression, ridiculous Inflation(by the time you took money out of the Bank and reached the Store prices had gone up!), and crippling hardship. Berlin found a way to deal with this hardship thouugh, it turned to Prostitution. Not figuretively, literally. Everyone became a Prostitute, Women, Men, Children, Husbands/Wives, the Disabled. People the world over flocked to Berlin to have their sexual fantasies fulfilled and Berliners even invented a few new fantasies. This worked quite well for Berliners, although I think we can all agree that it had turned into a disgusting place.
Enter the Nazis. The Nazis rose up from the Conservative Countryside which was thoroughly disgusted with the Liberal Berlin. During this rise Hitler sent Goebbels to Berlin in an attempt(eventually successful) to convince Berliners to join the Nazi cause. Nazis and Socialists clashed regularly, people were executed, and eventually many of the Elite of Berlin fled the country as Nazis took over and began shutting down the Clubs that were everywhere in Berlin. One era ended another began.
"Godwins Law" aside, I think the parallel is interesting, though certainly not on the same scale. I think above all it shows how a split Society can adopt Extremism and lead to tragedy. Most of that split is caused by Isolation(lack of experience) and Insulation(refusal to experience). Country folk don't understand City folk and vice-versa. Sounds like a problem where a Student Exchange program can come in handy.
Getting back to the premise of the thread, Hollywood and New York do, IMO, a fairly decent job of representing the US outside of their Centers, but they should be forgiven for focussing on what they know best. I find the whole Conservative/Liberal Red/Blue Country/City split in the US rather perplexing. The split seems to be a tempest in a teapot, a fabrication useful for both the Republicans and Democrats to maintain the 2 Party state(Conspiracy!
). The whole population is so wound up in minute differences that they have no time to consider New Ideas or even New Directions that are available for them to choose from.I'll end this post with a quote from the great German Historical Philosophist Oswald Spengler:
?The press today is an army with carefully organized weapons, the journalists its officers, the readers its soldiers. But, as in every army, the soldier obeys blindly, and the war aims and operating plans change without his knowledge. The reader neither knows nor is supposed to know the purposes for which he is used and the role he is to play. There is no more appalling caricature of freedom of thought. Formerly no one was allowed to think freely; now it is permitted, but no one is capable of it any more. Now people want to think only what they are supposed to want to think, and this they consider freedom.?
edit: spelling
Tom Wolfe is a hack, and the National Review and N.Y. Post are right wing rags so who gives a flying fsck at a rolling doughnut what they say?
And yes, widespread dogmatic religious elitism could very well explain why so many in the red states live in the southern hemisphere of the bell shaped IQ curve. :laugh:
sandorski
No Lifer
- Oct 10, 1999
- 70,213
- 5,794
- 126
Here's a short blurb on it
Tried to find a link to Youtube/Google video, but it seems to not be there.
zephyrprime
Diamond Member
- Feb 18, 2001
- 7,512
- 2
- 81
It's true because the states along the great lakes are also more democratic.
Where are you getting that small town fly over country is what won world war 2? By 1940, most americans were living in cities (wiki) so most of the drafte soldiers were also from cities. All the military industries were located in the cities too.
I do see wolf's point though. I think it has more to do with the divide between rural and urban than between the coasts and the middle. As moonbeam says, the welfare state is just an modern version of helping your neighbor.
- Jul 28, 2006
- 18,161
- 7
- 0
Tom Wolfe = 15 books with millions of copies sold
Harvey= no books but 18674 posts to his name...
I guess this doesn't prove that Wolfe isn't a hack, but it would mean that a lot more people pay attention to him than pay attention to Harvey huh?
Edit- the fact that Tom has been publishing books for 30+ years and is an established author means that what he says is at least worth looking at. If you don't agree with him then fine, but why launch a personal attack on him?
Im a liberalish person living in the heart of flyovercountry, North Dakota. In general nascar is despised, and most of the people i know aren't overly religious, if at all.
edit: just to point out that the op's link isn't representative of all red states or flyover country.
re-read your op, and pay attention to the names of your links.
Never mind I'll do it for you just to be sure you catch it.
- Jul 28, 2006
- 18,161
- 7
- 0
The great lakes... duh
The coast comment is a generalization people!!! It is really the inner city elite, most of whom live on the coasts since that is where the big cities are. The Midwest states are the old blue collar union Democrat states while the rest of the country is a total different animal. Actually I think the people who live in the mid-west are much more in tune with the so called "red" states than the coasts. They vote Democratic based on union and tradition mainly, IMO.
2004 election by county
Click here and you will see most Democratic support was on the coats and in the big cities of the midwest and some lower Mississippi river support.
Yet another insightful contribution from pabster. Keep it up.
I'll take Prof over you anyday, at least he has an argument to present.
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
The great lakes... duh
The coast comment is a generalization people!!! It is really the inner city elite, most of whom live on the coasts since that is where the big cities are. The Midwest states are the old blue collar union Democrat states while the rest of the country is a total different animal. Actually I think the people who live in the mid-west are much more in tune with the so called "red" states than the coasts. They vote Democratic based on union and tradition mainly, IMO.
2004 election by county
Click here and you will see most Democratic support was on the coats and in the big cities of the midwest and some lower Mississippi river support.
there was a similar map shaded by the voting percentages with counties distorted to represent population. To say the least it showed a much different and much less distorted truth. Unless you think that land votes, of course.
you forgot the generic insertion of a comment questioning the sanity or intelligence of the person being responded to.
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