Tom Ridge says Bush Administration pushed to raise terror alert for re-election

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: Pens1566
Not that it will help, but did you actually read any of the links posted earlier? The Time article maybe ????

If you are talking to me, yes I read all but what Craig posted and the OP from rawstory.

Go back and read them all yourself and find a line that proves the following wrong:

1. There is NO evidence that the level was ever raised for political reasons.

2. Most of this is based on personal differences of opinions between Ridge and others.

Let me post some relevant passages from the links
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_ridge_terror_alert

In a new book, Ridge says that despite the urgings of former Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld and then-Attorney General John Ashcroft he objected to raising the security level, according to a publicity release from the book's publisher.

So it was a difference of opinion.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/w...erts_x.htm?POE=NEWISVA

"More often than not we were the least inclined to raise it," Ridge told reporters. "Sometimes we disagreed with the intelligence assessment. Sometimes we thought even if the intelligence was good, you don't necessarily put the country on (alert). ... There were times when some people were really aggressive about raising it, and we said, 'For that?' "

Again... people disagreed with what to do.

http://www.time.com/time/natio...0,8599,1211369,00.html
The Time piece which is actually an opinion piece not a news article.

Can I prove any of this was politically motivated? Of course not.

So the whole article is based on his opinion...

The evidence that the terror raising was political based is about as flimsy as the evidence that Obama is a Muslim or a socialist. It is all based on innuendo and the personal opinions of people who don't like Bush or Obama in the first place.

Let me send you a few things by Rush and Hannity and Beck about Obama being a socialist, I am sure you will agree with them right?

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

A few of you need to read up on the Homeland Security Advisory System and get a clue.

The level has been raised only five times (on a nation wide basis) and the last of those was December 21,2003 to Jan 9, 2004.

And has been raised on partial basis 3 times.

It was only raised ONCE during 2004 and that was alert for specific financial institutions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H...curity_Advisory_System

John... John... John... There you go, again, dissembling, distracting and diverting attention from the point. The fact that Ashcroft, Rumsfeld and probably Cheney urged Ridge to raise the threat level the day before the election IS THE CRIME! It is a conspiracy to abuse the administration's authority to manipulate the political process. :|

Whether the statute of limitations has run on this conspiracy doesn't change the fact that they committed the crimes.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Harvey
George W. Bush and his gang of traitors, murderers, torturers, war criminals, war profiteers and general incompetents are the worst criminals ever to hold public office in the history of the United States of America. They shamed us ethically, they betrayed us spiritually, and they mercilessly broke us financially.

The one thing about my song that makes me sad is that I was so right so long ago. You can to click the link to hear it if you wish, but all you have to do is read the lyrics.

Who's Watching Over Who's Watching Over You?

Words and Music by Harvey Rubens
Copyright © 2006

Verse 1:

I see men looking over their shoulder,
Running hard just trying to stay alive,
And they say that it's gonna get colder before it gets better.

At the time of the crime, who believed us?
We all took a fall on the ride,
When the powers that be had deceived us to leave us the debtor.

Chorus:

And who's watching over who's watching over you?
Tell me who's telling who's telling you what to do what to do?

Verse 2:

All the forces of war were compelling,
And blacker than Colin, the Knight,
And the lies they were telling, they sell in the name of their savior.

And they silence the voices arising,
From those who would show us the light,
With their guys with their spies in the skies watching you and your neighbor.

Chorus:

Verse 3:

I see men who are trying to squeeze us,
And taking whatever they can,
While they buy those who try to appease us with scraps from their table.

It gets harder each day to break even.
This wasn't a part of my plan.
Time is right to be fighting or leaving this tower of Babel.

Chorus:

Any right wingnuts who want to attack me, personally, about my playing, my singing or my writing, go ahead -- reply and bump the thread some more. TIA for continuing to draw attention to the Bushwhackos' heinous crimes. :thumbsup:

Just remember, I didn't commit the crimes. Your thankfully EX-Traitor In Chief and his criminal gang did. :|

The words I wrote and sang, then, are the historical facts you're reading, now.

/facepalm

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

A few of you need to read up on the Homeland Security Advisory System and get a clue.

The level has been raised only five times (on a nation wide basis) and the last of those was December 21,2003 to Jan 9, 2004.

And has been raised on partial basis 3 times.

It was only raised ONCE during 2004 and that was alert for specific financial institutions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H...curity_Advisory_System

John... John... John... There you go, again, dissembling, distracting and diverting attention from the point. The fact that Ashcroft, Rumsfeld and probably Cheney urged Ridge to raise the threat level the day before the election IS THE CRIME! It is a conspiracy to abuse the administration's authority to manipulate the political process. :|

Whether the statute of limitations has run on this conspiracy doesn't change the fact that they committed the crimes.

Proof of the bolded?

 

[Pens1566]

ProfJohn, good to see some things never chage. I'll take common sense over the old "absence of proof" argument though.

BTW, why the sudden spike in posting? I wonder .....

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: Pens1566
ProfJohn, good to see some things never chage. I'll take common sense over the old "absence of proof" argument though.

BTW, why the sudden spike in posting? I wonder .....

I spend most of my time in OT these days.

P&N has become nearly worthless due to the amount of trolling and name calling.

BTW "common sense" tells me that Obama wants complete government control of healthcare, but of course all you liberals will argue against that idea.

Seems like one persons idea of common sense is another's far fetched fantasy.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

A few of you need to read up on the Homeland Security Advisory System and get a clue.

The level has been raised only five times (on a nation wide basis) and the last of those was December 21,2003 to Jan 9, 2004.

And has been raised on partial basis 3 times.

It was only raised ONCE during 2004 and that was alert for specific financial institutions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H...curity_Advisory_System

John... John... John... There you go, again, dissembling, distracting and diverting attention from the point. The fact that Ashcroft, Rumsfeld and probably Cheney urged Ridge to raise the threat level the day before the election IS THE CRIME! It is a conspiracy to abuse the administration's authority to manipulate the political process. :|

Whether the statute of limitations has run on this conspiracy doesn't change the fact that they committed the crimes.

Proof of the bolded?

ASCII, and you shall RECEIVII, Johnny boy. See this segment from Keith Olbermann's Countdown last night. Pay special attention to John Dean's commentary starting at around 3:54.

Olbermann: And you describe it, just now, in terms of "criminal activity." Who is potentially liable, and is anybody in position to do anything about it at this late date?

Dean: Well, that's the problem. It is a late date. The statute of limitations has run. As I say, if there was pressure, if you do manipulate an agency of government, it is a criminal offense. This is one of the things that caught a lot of people in Watergate. It's a conspiracy to defraud the government under Title 18 USC 371... and if you try to have a department it's not supposed to do and doing it for political reasons, you can go to jail for that.

Do you think that, because the statute of limitations has run on this particular crime, it's any less of a crime? If so, it will only prove, yet again, what a lying, sycophantic Bushwhacko apologist you are.

Originally posted by: Fern

Are we seeing another bad example of media spin?

You're working on it. :thumbsdown: :frown:

 

[Fern]

Wow.

I saw this on TV last and saner heads prevailed. It seems this whole thing stems from some language in Ridge's book which won't be released until Sept. 1.

The person discussing said, first of all, that Ridge's remarks are being spun quite a bit. Apparently the passage in the book said Ridge "wondered" if the reason to raise the terror alert at that time was political. I.e., he's not claiming it was. That's a far cry from what I see here. Here it's represented as a definitive statement.

Are we seeing another bad example of media spin?

Later I saw Michael Isikoff discussing it. He also seemed rather sceptical and noted that two threatening AQ statements were released at that time, etc.

It's also been noted that Ridge wasn't in the security meetings, that the CIA, FBI etc all had their own data that Ridge wasn't briefed on. So, Ridge really had no idea why others would have been pushing to raise the alert. In fact, all those discussing this, no matter which channel, pointed out this as a problem. Just as before 911, we still have an uncoordinated government.

Before getting all excited about this, might be better to wait and see what Ridge actually says in his book.

Fern

 

[ProfJohn]

Harvey... i see no proof of a crime. I see someone accusing someone else of trying to "manipulate" an agency of the government.

BTW if Obama calls up his AG and says 'We should prosecute that guy" can Obama be charged with trying to manipulate an agency of the government??

BTW there is still NO proof any of this had to do with politics.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Harvey... i see no proof of a crime. I see someone accusing someone else of trying to "manipulate" an agency of the government.

BTW if Obama calls up his AG and says 'We should prosecute that guy" can Obama be charged with trying to manipulate an agency of the government??

BTW there is still NO proof any of this had to do with politics.

Keep telling yourself that. Pretty soon, you'll get all of the few remaining right wingnuts singing that tune.

Wait a minute... They already are, and, like you, they've been spewing the same lies even longer than I've been singing songs about them. :shocked:

All the forces of war were compelling,
And blacker than Colin, the Knight,
And the lies they were telling, they sell in the name of their savior.

 

[ProfJohn]

The book will be out in a few weeks... we can resume this then.

 

[jonks]

Either he lied then or is lying now. Either way, his credibility is more than questionable.

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: Harvey
-snip-
Olbermann

You're quoting Keith Olbermann as some sort of proof - on anything?

Bwuhahaha

Fern

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: jonks
Either he lied then or is lying now. Either way, his credibility is more than questionable.

And anybody associated with the Bush Administration, especially Ashcroft and Rumsfield, credibility isn't?:roll:

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: Harvey
-snip-
Olbermann

You're quoting Keith Olbermann as some sort of proof - on anything?

Bwuhahaha

Fern

No, Fern, but thanks for yet another shallow analysis. :roll:

I'm quoting John Dean, who is a Constitutional scholar with a lot of experience in Whitehouse scandals. He was Richard Nixon's Whitehouse counsel who famously warned Nixon that there Watergate was "a cancer on the Presidency" and went to prison for his own involvement in that scandal.

If you really want to know more, try any of his books:

Worse than Watergate - he Secret Presidency of George W. Bush

Conservatives Without Conscience

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: jonks
Either he lied then or is lying now. Either way, his credibility is more than questionable.

And anybody associated with the Bush Administration, especially Ashcroft and Rumsfield, credibility isn't?:roll:

Not disagreeing, but dems are now rallying around Ridge's statement as 'proof' of something. Either he's credible or he isn't because he either lied then or now. Can't embrace him now as a voice of truth and reason simply because the words he's uttering now jive with what you want to hear or believe.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: jonks

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: jonks
Either he lied then or is lying now. Either way, his credibility is more than questionable.

And anybody associated with the Bush Administration, especially Ashcroft and Rumsfield, credibility isn't?:roll:

Not disagreeing, but dems are now rallying around Ridge's statement as 'proof' of something. Either he's credible or he isn't because he either lied then or now. Can't embrace him now as a voice of truth and reason simply because the words he's uttering now jive with what you want to hear or believe.

Feel the same way about Colin Powel?

 

[Pens1566]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: jonks

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: jonks
Either he lied then or is lying now. Either way, his credibility is more than questionable.

And anybody associated with the Bush Administration, especially Ashcroft and Rumsfield, credibility isn't?:roll:

Not disagreeing, but dems are now rallying around Ridge's statement as 'proof' of something. Either he's credible or he isn't because he either lied then or now. Can't embrace him now as a voice of truth and reason simply because the words he's uttering now jive with what you want to hear or believe.

Feel the same way about Colin Powel?

I do in the sense that they both should have spoken out at the time of the respective problems they had with admin policy. I don't however think that makes their stories any less believable.

 

[seemingly random]

I will never be able to erase the image of powell at the u.n. lying to the whole planet. He's an impressive guy but everyone needs to be held accountable for their actions. He pissed away years of hard earned respect and dignity with the republicans.

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: jonks

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: jonks
Either he lied then or is lying now. Either way, his credibility is more than questionable.

And anybody associated with the Bush Administration, especially Ashcroft and Rumsfield, credibility isn't?:roll:

Not disagreeing, but dems are now rallying around Ridge's statement as 'proof' of something. Either he's credible or he isn't because he either lied then or now. Can't embrace him now as a voice of truth and reason simply because the words he's uttering now jive with what you want to hear or believe.

I disagree a bit.

I don't see how Ridge can be either lying or telling the truth, because he can't even know.

From all acounts he was out-of-the-loop and uninformed. He might have an opinion or suspicion, but if recent accounts of his participation in intel etc are correct he has no first-hand knowledge.

Unless something far more substantive comes out (and I'm not saying it won't) this is another story in the fast lane to nowhereville.

Fern

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: Fern

Unless something far more substantive comes out (and I'm not saying it won't) this is another story in the fast lane to nowhereville.

You're wishing. I'm just watching. We'll know when we see the facts.

The larger point is that it's yet another part of the story, and it's consistant with the rest of the monumental stack of Bushwhacko lies, deceit, deception and blatant criminality.

 

[Zedtom]

How do you sell books? Do you keep a journal, take notes, and eventually write a manuscript? Do you have a literary agent that will shop your story around until you find a publisher? Do you eventually get a deal and set a publishing date? Do you sit down with your agent and publisher representative and decide how to market your book? Do you all agree that the best way to make a splash is to drop a bombshell right before the release date? Do you sit back and smile as you watch the media, bloggers, and internet forum posters spread the word?

 

[BuckNaked]

Originally posted by: seemingly random
I will never be able to erase the image of powell at the u.n. lying to the whole planet. He's an impressive guy but everyone needs to be held accountable for their actions. He pissed away years of hard earned respect and dignity with the republicans.

I felt and still feel the same way... but also wonder how much he did or didn't know... was he a 'sacrificial lamb' or was he in all the way with Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz and the others...?

 

[dammitgibs]

http://a1135.g.akamai.net/f/11...mstrong_and_Getty_Show
theres armstrong and getty's take on it this morning, pretty good listen

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: seemingly random
I will never be able to erase the image of powell at the u.n. lying to the whole planet. He's an impressive guy...

Why?

Somewhat like John McCain, this seems to be based more on repition than anything.