Tom Brady > Peyton Manning, here's why

[Phokus]

1) Peyton Manning has had the same #1 and #2 receivers for years now. He's had the luxury of developing a camaraderie and chemistry with those receivers and they are able to recognize plays and adjust routes just by looking at the defense. Brady has had to change receivers throughout his career and still excelled without developing that chemistry. He first started with Troy Brown and Terry Glenn/David Patten. Afterwards, he had Deion Branch and David Givens. After that, he had the waiver wire wonders Reche "bug eyes" Caldwell and Jabar Gaffney (and he made them look VERY respectable).

Now he has truly great receivers in Moss/Stallworth/Welker and he hasn't even had the time to develop that chemistry that Peyton has with his receivers. You think he's doing well this year on pace to break all those QB records? Wait 'till next year and the year after that when the receivers fully know the offensive system. I actually have a copy of the Patriots 2004 offensive playbook and the system requires receivers to change their routes both before the snap and after the snap depending on how the defense is lined up and how it reacts after the snap. This is quite different from, for example, a West Coast Offense, where there is very little adjustments made.

2) Peyton Manning is a horrible postseason Quarterback. Even in the year he won the superbowl, he did his best to lose games with INTs. Luckily, his defense found a backbone and won the games for the Colts. There is a HUGE dropoff in production from the regular season to the post season with manning. In fact, Brady outperforms Manning in the postseason. Manning just doesn't have the composure and ice water in his veins to be calm during the playoffs.

Manning:

http://www.pro-football-refere...m/players/MannPe00.htm

Year Opp Result | CMP ATT PYD PTD INT | RSH YD TD
---------------------+--------------------------+-----------------
1999 ten L,16-19 | 19 43 227 0 0 | 2 22 1
2000 mia L,17-23 | 17 32 194 1 0 | 1 -2 0
2002 nyj L,0-41 | 14 31 137 0 2 | 1 2 0
2003 den W,41-10 | 22 26 377 5 0 | 1 0 0
2003 kan W,38-31 | 22 30 304 3 0 | 1 -1 0
2003 nwe L,14-24 | 23 47 237 1 4 | 2 4 0
2004 den W,49-24 | 27 33 457 4 1 | 1 1 1
2004 nwe L,3-20 | 27 42 238 0 1 | 1 6 0
2005 pit L,18-21 | 22 38 290 1 0 | 0 0 0
2006 kan W,23-8 | 30 38 268 1 3 | 2 -2 0
2006 bal W,15-6 | 15 30 170 0 2 | 3 5 0
2006 nwe W,38-34 | 27 47 349 1 1 | 2 0 1
*2006 chi W,29-17 | 25 38 247 1 1 | 1 0 0
---------------------+--------------------------+-----------------
TOTAL | 290 475 3495 18 15 | 18 35 3

Seriously, how do you lose 41-0 to the Jets?

Brady:

http://www.pro-football-refere...m/players/BradTo00.htm

Year Opp Result | CMP ATT PYD PTD INT | RSH YD TD
---------------------+--------------------------+-----------------
2001 oak W,16-13 | 32 52 312 0 1 | 5 16 1
2001 pit W,24-17 | 12 18 115 0 0 | 2 3 0
*2001 stl W,20-17 | 16 27 145 1 0 | 1 3 0
2003 ten W,17-14 | 21 41 201 1 0 | 5 5 0
2003 ind W,24-14 | 22 37 237 1 1 | 5 1 0
*2003 car W,32-29 | 32 48 354 3 1 | 2 12 0
2004 ind W,20-3 | 18 27 144 1 0 | 4 6 1
2004 pit W,41-27 | 14 21 207 2 0 | 2 -2 0
*2004 phi W,24-21 | 23 33 236 2 0 | 1 -1 0
2005 jax W,28-3 | 15 27 201 3 0 | 2 9 0
2005 den L,13-27 | 20 36 341 1 2 | 1 -1 0
2006 nyj W,37-16 | 22 34 212 2 0 | 2 14 0
2006 sdg W,24-21 | 27 51 280 2 3 | 2 3 0
2006 ind L,34-38 | 21 34 232 1 1 | 4 1 0
---------------------+--------------------------+-----------------
TOTAL | 295 486 3217 20 9 | 38 69 2


Give me the QB who doesn't buckle under pressure during the playoffs, thanks!

 

[Vette73]

Your threads going to get locked... heres why.
http://forums.anandtech.com/me...=2109640&enterthread=y

 

[Deeko]

Do you remember when the Patriots won a playoff game last year, DESPITE Terrific Tom throwing 3 interceptions? Or the AFC Championship game, when 'postseason goat' Manning mounted a huge comeback, and when Brady had a chance to put the game away in the 4th quarter, he threw an interception?

As a Patriots fan, you aren't allowed to use the "his defense bailed him out" argument in Brady vs Manning. Clearly, over their careers, Brady has had a MUCH MUCH better defense than the Colts, including last year, and this year. Just because the Colts defense has gone from laughable to average, while the Patriots has remained very good, does not allow you to reverse that argument.

 

[MrChad]

Seriously. Just stop it. We know you love New England. We know you love Tom Brady.

My god New England fans are obnoxious.

 

[vi edit]

I'd be curious to see the average starting position of a drive for each player historically.

 

[Deeko]

Originally posted by: MrChad
Seriously. Just stop it. We know you love New England. We know you love Tom Brady.

My god New England fans are obnoxious.

Yea, its a shame. I have no beef with the Patriots, and no reason to dislike them...but their fans make me want them to lose so bad, just to shut them up. I mean, I'm a Cowboys fan that lives in Philly, and I might hate Patriots fans more then I do Eagles fans.

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: Deeko
Do you remember when the Patriots won a playoff game last year, DESPITE Terrific Tom throwing 3 interceptions? Or the AFC Championship game, when 'postseason goat' Manning mounted a huge comeback, and when Brady had a chance to put the game away in the 4th quarter, he threw an interception?

On the whole, Brady has a much better Postseason resume than Manning. You can cherry pick games all you want, but you cannot deny that Brady's postseason career is much better than Manning's.

As a Patriots fan, you aren't allowed to use the "his defense bailed him out" argument in Brady vs Manning. Clearly, over their careers, Brady has had a MUCH MUCH better defense than the Colts, including last year, and this year. Just because the Colts defense has gone from laughable to average, while the Patriots has remained very good, does not allow you to reverse that argument.

Yes i can use that argument, because Brady is an excellent postseason QB, he doesn't need bailing out. Manning, on the otherhand, is the consummate choker. He HAS had top ranked defenses before. Plus, his defense is built to create turnovers (which they've led the league in before), not necessarily prevent yards.

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: Deeko

Originally posted by: MrChad
Seriously. Just stop it. We know you love New England. We know you love Tom Brady.

My god New England fans are obnoxious.

Yea, its a shame. I have no beef with the Patriots, and no reason to dislike them...but their fans make me want them to lose so bad, just to shut them up. I mean, I'm a Cowboys fan that lives in Philly, and I might hate Patriots fans more then I do Eagles fans.

Yeah, after that asskicking they gave the cowpies, you have no reason to hate them

:roll: America's team :roll:

 

[slsmnaz]

Originally posted by: Marlin1975
Your threads going to get locked... heres why.
http://forums.anandtech.com/me...=2109640&enterthread=y

 

[Deeko]

Yes and when they don't get turnovers, they allow a touchdown.

In the past, Peyton has HAD to score a LOT of points in order to win the game. Brady could play a safe, ball-control offense and score every now and then, because his defense would back him up. The first year Peyton had a defense worth talking about, what happened? They won the Superbowl.

Seriously, you aren't allowed to use defense as a Patriots fan in Brady vs Manning. That's like saying Montana was better than Marino, because Marino only put up numbers thanks to his better receivers.

 

[Deeko]

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: Deeko

Originally posted by: MrChad
Seriously. Just stop it. We know you love New England. We know you love Tom Brady.

My god New England fans are obnoxious.

Yea, its a shame. I have no beef with the Patriots, and no reason to dislike them...but their fans make me want them to lose so bad, just to shut them up. I mean, I'm a Cowboys fan that lives in Philly, and I might hate Patriots fans more then I do Eagles fans.

Yeah, after that asskicking they gave the cowpies, you have no reason to hate them

:roll: America's team :roll:

You're an idiot. The Patriots are a better team than the Cowboys, and Dallas losing to them does not cause me to dislike them. I still have no beef with them as a team, just idiots like you.

And you know the term "America's Team" refers to Dallas being the most popular team in the country, right? And you know they still are, right? The Patriots are far, far from it.

 

[waggy]

who cares? both are fucking amazing QB's.

I would love to have either one playing for the bears.



Though brady has had a lot better team with him then Manning. for years NE has great defence and QB and it shows. Finally Manning gets a good defence and he wins.

you really can't compare the two because they are not in the same situation. all you can really say is they are great.

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: Deeko

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: Deeko

Originally posted by: MrChad
Seriously. Just stop it. We know you love New England. We know you love Tom Brady.

My god New England fans are obnoxious.

Yea, its a shame. I have no beef with the Patriots, and no reason to dislike them...but their fans make me want them to lose so bad, just to shut them up. I mean, I'm a Cowboys fan that lives in Philly, and I might hate Patriots fans more then I do Eagles fans.

Yeah, after that asskicking they gave the cowpies, you have no reason to hate them

:roll: America's team :roll:

You're an idiot. The Patriots are a better team than the Cowboys, and Dallas losing to them does not cause me to dislike them. I still have no beef with them as a team, just idiots like you.

And you know the term "America's Team" refers to Dallas being the most popular team in the country, right? And you know they still are, right? The Patriots are far, far from it.

*snicker* sure thing, whatever you say. All this jealousy and sour grapes only goes to show how far the Pats have come. I love it!

 

[Deeko]

You've been posting on this board since 1999....I've been arguing with the likes of you and PaulNEPats for years now. In case you've forgotten.

 

[paulxcook]

Originally posted by: MrChad
Seriously. Just stop it. We know you love New England. We know you love Tom Brady.

My god New England fans are obnoxious.

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: Deeko
Yes and when they don't get turnovers, they allow a touchdown.

In the past, Peyton has HAD to score a LOT of points in order to win the game. Brady could play a safe, ball-control offense and score every now and then, because his defense would back him up. The first year Peyton had a defense worth talking about, what happened? They won the Superbowl.

Seriously, you aren't allowed to use defense as a Patriots fan in Brady vs Manning. That's like saying Montana was better than Marino, because Marino only put up numbers thanks to his better receivers.

Funny, looking at the postseason stats, it looks like Brady is very comparable to Manning in terms of airing it out (except Brady isn't an interception machine like Manning is and Brady has a MUCH better TD/INT ratio). The last 2 superbowls that Brady won, the defense has given up a ton of points and a ton of yards, and they were won on brady's back. The year Manning won it, the Indy defense CARRIED that team.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: Deeko

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: Deeko

Originally posted by: MrChad
Seriously. Just stop it. We know you love New England. We know you love Tom Brady.

My god New England fans are obnoxious.

Yea, its a shame. I have no beef with the Patriots, and no reason to dislike them...but their fans make me want them to lose so bad, just to shut them up. I mean, I'm a Cowboys fan that lives in Philly, and I might hate Patriots fans more then I do Eagles fans.

Yeah, after that asskicking they gave the cowpies, you have no reason to hate them

:roll: America's team :roll:

You're an idiot. The Patriots are a better team than the Cowboys, and Dallas losing to them does not cause me to dislike them. I still have no beef with them as a team, just idiots like you.

And you know the term "America's Team" refers to Dallas being the most popular team in the country, right? And you know they still are, right? The Patriots are far, far from it.

*snicker* sure thing, whatever you say. All this jealousy and sour grapes only goes to show how far the Pats have come. I love it!

psst! he is right.

they have been knowns as "america's team" since what the early 80's?

he is alos right on the Pats being a better team then teh Cowboys. does tnat deminish what the cowboys have done? hell no. for a amount of experiance in the NFL Romo has he does great.

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: Deeko

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: Deeko

Originally posted by: MrChad
Seriously. Just stop it. We know you love New England. We know you love Tom Brady.

My god New England fans are obnoxious.

Yea, its a shame. I have no beef with the Patriots, and no reason to dislike them...but their fans make me want them to lose so bad, just to shut them up. I mean, I'm a Cowboys fan that lives in Philly, and I might hate Patriots fans more then I do Eagles fans.

Yeah, after that asskicking they gave the cowpies, you have no reason to hate them

:roll: America's team :roll:

You're an idiot. The Patriots are a better team than the Cowboys, and Dallas losing to them does not cause me to dislike them. I still have no beef with them as a team, just idiots like you.

And you know the term "America's Team" refers to Dallas being the most popular team in the country, right? And you know they still are, right? The Patriots are far, far from it.

*snicker* sure thing, whatever you say. All this jealousy and sour grapes only goes to show how far the Pats have come. I love it!

psst! he is right.

they have been knowns as "america's team" since what the early 80's?

he is alos right on the Pats being a better team then teh Cowboys. does tnat deminish what the cowboys have done? hell no. for a amount of experiance in the NFL Romo has he does great.

I wasn't denying that the Cowboys have been known as 'America's Team' for a long time now, i was just poking fun at the arrogance of the Cowboy's Franchise and their own fan base.

As for the Patriots/Cowboys thing, i was just pointing out that he does have a reason to not like the Pats after a couple weeks ago

 

[dbk]

Uh..why did you make another thread on this topic? Wasn't there a Brady or Manning thread before? LOL

 

[PlatinumGold]

Originally posted by: waggy
who cares? both are fucking amazing QB's.

I would love to have either one playing for the bears.



Though brady has had a lot better team with him then Manning. for years NE has great defence and QB and it shows. Finally Manning gets a good defence and he wins.

you really can't compare the two because they are not in the same situation. all you can really say is they are great.

exactly.


in the NFL, it is so hard to argue individual greatness because it is hard to see how they would work outside the system.

there are exceptional athletes in the NFL where they would work well in any system, randy moss being a great example.

but you can do well in the nfl with marginal athletic ability given a good system.


there is no way in hell any objective person could say joe montana was a better physical specimen than john elway or was a better natural passer than dan marino.

montana was put in a great system that matched his strengths and he won, prodigiously, but he wasn't a better athlete than elway or a better qb than marino. no way.

 

[poopaskoopa]

If this year proves anything, it is that the "chemistry" between the QB and WR is overrated.

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: poopaskoopa
If this year proves anything, it is that the "chemistry" between the QB and WR is overrated.

Not true, in both the Colt's and Patriot's offensive system, the Quarterback and the Receivers have to be able to look at the defense with the same pair of eyes and react accordingly. That takes time to develop. When the receivers on the Patriots get that system down 100%, the offense will be EVEN MORE efficient. Donte Stallworth has been a little slow picking it up because he is a WCO receiver who hasn't had to deal with those adjustments. However, in the past few games, he's been picking it up and performing better and better. In the West Coast Offense where receivers, TE's, and RB's go into passing routes often, the QB's just have to identify who is open, take a quick 3 step drop and fire away. Very few adjustments are made.

 

[DanTMWTMP]

*walks into thread*

GO CHARGERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

oh..but I do like Brady over Manning though... I do believe Brady is a better QB than Manning (although Manning is a monster himself as well).

but..GO CHARGERS!

 

[bunnyfubbles]

Boston fans are the worst.

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: bunnyfubbles
Boston fans are the worst.

It's good to be king