Toilet running

[destrekor]

I've experienced running toilets before, and it's often been the flapper at fault.

This doesn't quite seem to be that though I admit it could very well be.

I watch the water level in the tank slowly but surely drop until it triggers the float and fills the tank the rest of the way again.

Meanwhile I don't believe I've seen water running into the bowl. But what's stranger is I hear it in the sewer stack. Both of my toilets seem to be behaving exactly the same, though one it's a little more obvious. For instance, the 1st floor toilet I can hear a constant dripping noise like water drops landing on water when I'm anywhere near it. But based on the location of the two sewer stacks in the basement, I don't really hear a constant dripping from the stack that ground floor toilet uses. Now the 2nd floor toilet, I don't hear that constant dripping when standing near the toilet, but the water level in the tank behaves the same, and I do hear a faint tapping of drips in the other sewer stack in the basement, and that could be because that one is straight down through the upper floors and then has a 90 degree bend at head level in the basement, so it sounds like the droplets hitting the bottom of the bend. Otherwise both toilets have the slow water level drop in the tank, no apparent water entering the bowl, and a dripping sound associated with each toilet.

What is going on here? I'm trying to see if this is likely a part I can replace myself, like the flapper, or if this is going to require a costly plumber trip.

 

[feralkid]

Water from the tank can only go into the bowl.

There is nowhere else it can go.

Put some food coloring in the tank water and see for yourself.

Best of luck!

 

[Greenman]

Water from the tank can only go into the bowl.

There is nowhere else it can go.

Put some food coloring in the tank water and see for yourself.

Best of luck!

It can go on the floor. That tends to be a little obvious.

 

[destrekor]

I'll have to buy some food coloring on my rounds tomorrow.

And now I think I know what caused this mess. Early on in this home, I had used those toilet tank tablets for a few months. I think at the time I did find something on them potentially causing issues, and so I stopped using them. Must have forgot over time. Surely that's the cause for both going so fast (looks like the same flapper in both) and at the same time for that matter.

Any signs there could be other issues with the rest of the parts?

 

[bbhaag]

If you don't see a puddle of water on the floor then chances are it's the flapper. Try the food coloring trick and that will let you know for sure.

I f you want a quick remedy that you can try tonight this trick might be useful. Shut the water off at the supply to the toilet then remove the flapper and dry it thoroughly. Once the flapper is dry take some Vaseline or any oil based lotion and apply it to the underside of the flapper. This will create a water tight seal between the flapper and the flange leading to the bowl.

 

[Paperdoc]

There are two other related causes you have not considered.

The flap valve is the first one, and you've looked at that. But it MAY have a small flaw on the underside of the flap causing a poor seal. Similarly, the valve BODY that the flap seal against could have a scratch or notch in its lip, making a complete seal impossible.

But here's another that is harder to spot, and I just had one like this recently. The tank fill valve controlled by the float also can leak slowly if it does not shut off completely.That valve has two outputs. One goes out a small neck on the top and through a small hose over to the tube at the top of the flap valve assembly.The main function of this it to refill the bowl AFTER the flap valve has closed when the tank empties. But the main flow from the fill valve exits bear the bottom of the fill valve assembly to fill the tank. Its outflow is at the bottom so it is under the water level and does not splash around. If the fill valve fails to seal properly once the tank is refilled, the small leakage may be enough to show you some small flow through the top tube into the top of the float valve assembly. But it might be so small that you see none there, and all the leakage just goes out the bottom (underwater) outlet where you cannot see it. This can happen if the valve parts inside the fill valve are worn. That could be a worn rubber seal, a worn notched seat of the valve body where that rubber seal pushes, or just accumulated dirt on the valve's moving parts that impede their free movement to let the valve seal off. To inspect for those, turn off the supply valve outside and remove the screws in the top of the fill valve to get its parts out. It also can happen (and this was the case in my last incident) that the arm of the float is bent in such a way that the float itself is rubbing on something and does not get all the way to the top of its travel, thereby NOT closing the fill valve.

For all of that fill valve stuff, you can try to check this way. Remove the tank top. Listen carefully an see if you can hear water leaking. Also watch the bowl inside for very small trickles of water. If you can detect the leak, then reach in and pull the float arm up gently to make sure the fill valve closes, and see if that stops the leak. If it does, you know the problem is in the fill valve, and not the flap valve at the bottom. Then you have to start looking for why the fill valve does not close fully.

 

[destrekor]

There are two other related causes you have not considered.

The flap valve is the first one, and you've looked at that. But it MAY have a small flaw on the underside of the flap causing a poor seal. Similarly, the valve BODY that the flap seal against could have a scratch or notch in its lip, making a complete seal impossible.

But here's another that is harder to spot, and I just had one like this recently. The tank fill valve controlled by the float also can leak slowly if it does not shut off completely.That valve has two outputs. One goes out a small neck on the top and through a small hose over to the tube at the top of the flap valve assembly.The main function of this it to refill the bowl AFTER the flap valve has closed when the tank empties. But the main flow from the fill valve exits bear the bottom of the fill valve assembly to fill the tank. Its outflow is at the bottom so it is under the water level and does not splash around. If the fill valve fails to seal properly once the tank is refilled, the small leakage may be enough to show you some small flow through the top tube into the top of the float valve assembly. But it might be so small that you see none there, and all the leakage just goes out the bottom (underwater) outlet where you cannot see it. This can happen if the valve parts inside the fill valve are worn. That could be a worn rubber seal, a worn notched seat of the valve body where that rubber seal pushes, or just accumulated dirt on the valve's moving parts that impede their free movement to let the valve seal off. To inspect for those, turn off the supply valve outside and remove the screws in the top of the fill valve to get its parts out. It also can happen (and this was the case in my last incident) that the arm of the float is bent in such a way that the float itself is rubbing on something and does not get all the way to the top of its travel, thereby NOT closing the fill valve.

For all of that fill valve stuff, you can try to check this way. Remove the tank top. Listen carefully an see if you can hear water leaking. Also watch the bowl inside for very small trickles of water. If you can detect the leak, then reach in and pull the float arm up gently to make sure the fill valve closes, and see if that stops the leak. If it does, you know the problem is in the fill valve, and not the flap valve at the bottom. Then you have to start looking for why the fill valve does not close fully.

Thanks for the insights!

One question: if the fill valve has a leak, how would the water level in the tank drop?

And no, I don't see any water dripping out of the hose at the top into the tube.

 

[Sgt. York]

If you are convinced the flapper and its seat aren't causing the leak, check the tube that fills the pot.

 

[destrekor]

I used some food dye in the tank and slowly but surely some of the dyed water entered the bowl. The reason I didn't notice water entering the bowl before was because it wasn't from the water outlets around the rim and instead from the main water jet at the bottom of the bowl.