Toilet running

[Carson Dyle]

This has been a problem for months now. I replaced the disintegrating flapper in my toilet and ever since then, it's been finicky. Water trickles from the tank because the flapper doesn't close fully, and then the fill valve opens and it fills. Leak, fill, leak, fill, until I fix it.

The problems seems to be in the spacing between the overflow tube, to which the flapper attaches, and the opening on which the flapper sits. I've now tried three different flappers and they all have the same problem. Seems the tube is maybe 1/8" to 1/4" too close to the opening, so the edge of the flapper leaves a small gap.

If I carefully flush the toilet by holding the lever (keeping the flapper up) and dropping it after the tank empties, it seats better and the leaking is avoided. Kind of a PITA, though. Has anyone run into this problem before, and is there a simple solution?

 

[Humpy]

Replace the entire flush valve?

 

[Carson Dyle]

Huh. I just had a good look at it again. I hadn't realized that the overflow tube and the flush valve seat were a single assembly. I always thought the tube was attached separately to the tank.

That looks like the easy fix. Thanks.

* Edit *

Well, maybe not that "easy". Looks like it requires removing the tank to replace that seat and the gasket between the tank and bowl.

 

[Carson Dyle]

This could be a quick fix. Basically a new flush valve seat with flapper that doesn't anchor to the overflow tube.

 

[pcgeek11]

Those do work as a short term fix. I would just remove the tank and repair it properly.

 

[boomerang]

Or, look for the flapper that is specific to your toilet. That may not be possible though if the toilet is an off brand with little to no parts availability. The model number will be on the underside of the lid on the tank.

 

[Carson Dyle]

It's an American Standard toilet, no doubt the original from when the home was built in the mid 1970s. Some or all of the internals in the tank have almost certainly been replaced in that time. It has a Fluidmaster fill valve, but the overflow tube and flush valve assembly, I can't tell, and they might even be original. There actually doesn't appear to be anything wrong with the seat, if I could just find a flapper that fits better.

 

[boomerang]

There actually doesn't appear to be anything wrong with the seat, if I could just find a flapper that fits better.

Like I said, start searching using the model number under the tank lid. IMO, you've nailed it, the flapper is not correct. I've been down this road myself with some Sterling toilets from the late 90's. Brought home a number of them from both the hardware store and Lowe's and finally did some research. Fixed.

 

[Carson Dyle]

Thanks for that. Looks like an American Standard 4049 (Cadet). Pretty sure it must be the original flush valve from some photos.

This looks like it, minus the flapper contraption on top. On the one I have, there's a section that looks nibbled to the left of the opening (the seat itself, though, is still intact). Must have been where someone cut off the hinge for the original flapper when they replaced it many years ago, so there's no way to back to an original replacement.

It's easy to see from this that the center to center distance between the pipe and opening wouldn't have to be to any standard, since the hinge is to the side.

I'm finding some discussions about them on other forums. Mostly recommendations to replace the whole damned thing, but maybe I'll find someone who can recommend a flapper that fits.

 

[lxskllr]

I'm a fan of quick fixes. I'd try thing you linked. If it works, great. If not, it wasn't a big investment. I'm leery of fooling with things that have delicate torque requirements(ceramic tank). I'm bad with overtorquing things, so I try to avoid it when possible.

 

[boomerang]

So I did a little looking around this morning now that I had the make and model number and it looks like the flapper itself, (the rubber component that does the sealing) is no longer available from American Standard. That throws you into the secondary market and from your description, it sounds like continuing down that road may be just a further waste of your time.

Your best bet for a lasting repair looks to be to replace the assembly that you've shown in post #9. You'll need a big pair of channel lock pliers and only a few other common tools. Removing the tank is not really a big deal, I've done it many a time when painting.

 

[pcgeek11]

An hour or two if you haven't done this before and it would be as good as new.

 

[ch33zw1z]

I just replaced the entire setup in my kohler, it was long past overdue. My first time, Google a bunch, and plan for at least a couple hours. It took me about 4 due to my noob status, and trying to get the right gasket for the kohler 3 bolt tank mounts. And this part here was a huge time killer....the tank bolts had corroded to the point where they just disintegrated when I started removing the tank bolts. I took my time because of not wanting to go buy a new tank too...one of the bolts I ended up having to drill out some...

I was having a very similar issue, sometimes it was the chain wrapping around itself when flushed. Sometimes the flapper wasn't landing just right.

Bottom line, next time it will go much faster. It's a good learning experience for how a toilet works, and it's not as bad as it looks lol

 

[Carson Dyle]

And this part here was a huge time killer....the tank bolts had corroded to the point where they just disintegrated when I started removing the tank bolts. I took my time because of not wanting to go buy a new tank too...one of the bolts I ended up having to drill out some...

That's exactly what I worry about. Plus cracking the tank on installing the new bolts, as previously mentioned. I replaced the toilet seat about a year ago and had to cut off the corroded bolts with a Dremel and cut-off wheel by cutting through the bolt heads. Never would have imagined simply replacing a toilet seat would be that much of a pain.

 

[ch33zw1z]

As far cracking the tank, just get the bolts started, then nice even pressure while tightening.

The Kohler three bolt gasket is all rubber, so it was pretty soft while applying pressure.

I took a few pictures before starting, so I kinda an idea how close to make the tank to the bowl.

 

[Exterous]

I'm leery of fooling with things that have delicate torque requirements(ceramic tank). I'm bad with overtorquing things, so I try to avoid it when possible.

That's exactly what I worry about. Plus cracking the tank on installing the new bolts, as previously mentioned.

They're not that easy to crack - you'd have to crank pretty hard on one to break it. They do make quite a noise if you do manage it though. If you are really worried there are tanks that have the bolts attached to a metal bracket on the outside of the tank instead of running through it. That means you don't have to worry nearly as much about getting them tight as you don't have to form a water tight seal. Just tighten them evenly enough that the tank doesn't wobble and you're good to go