Todays Economic Reports Reflect Underlying Concerns

308nato

Platinum Member
Feb 10, 2002
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Originally posted by: Moonbeam
You need a one armed economist.

I have a one armed buddy that loves to fish. He always holds one arm out and tells me he caught one "this big" but it got away.

Lying prick.

 

alchemize

Lifer
Mar 24, 2000
11,486
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Originally posted by: sandorski
Yup, there are increasing concerns of Inflation as well.

You care to back that up? Cause in the 1,500 reports I've read, *Deflation* has been the only concern.
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: sandorski
Yup, there are increasing concerns of Inflation as well.
You care to back that up? Cause in the 1,500 reports I've read, *Deflation* has been the only concern.

Here's 1,501:
Also from the Washington Post:
Conservatives Dispute GOP Budget Claims
Figures Cited Are for Authorized Spending, Not Actual Outlays, Say Critics

By Jonathan Weisman
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, December 26, 2003; Page A06

After three straight years of double-digit increases in federal spending, President Bush and the Republican Congress say they have the situation under control. But a number of conservatives say actual spending this year will be triple the figures cited by the White House.

The two camps have simply chosen different kinds of budget numbers to bolster their positions. Bush enumerates the amount of spending that Congress authorizes each year. His critics cite the actual amount the government is spending. In effect, the president and his allies are counting the money put into the spending pipeline, while the others count the amount flowing out the other side, some of which may have been slowly trickling through for years.

The debate over federal spending has become politically charged, with both sides tossing out wildly divergent numbers. On Dec. 15, Bush said at a news conference that his administration and the GOP-controlled Congress had held spending not related to the military or homeland security to a 6 percent increase in fiscal year 2002, with a 5 percent increase last fiscal year and a 3 percent increase for the 2004 fiscal year, which began Oct. 1.

"We're working with Congress to hold the line on spending," Bush said.

Tad DeHaven, a budget researcher at the libertarian Cato Institute, published his version of the numbers a few days later. He found a 6.8 percent increase in the same categories in 2002, an 8.3 percent increase last fiscal year and a 6.3 percent increase this year -- more than double Bush's 2004 number.

The president's figures "amount to a spin job," DeHaven said on the Web site of the conservative National Review. "Many people who support the president's tax cuts and his conduct of the war can no longer stomach his expansion of big government via big spending," he wrote.

Congressional Republicans say they will hold overall discretionary spending this year to a 3 percent increase, with military spending rising 1.2 percent. Brian M. Riedl, a federal budget analyst at the Heritage Foundation, put the spending increase this year at triple the GOP's overall level, or 9 percent. By his reckoning, the rate of growth in defense spending will be nearly 10 times that of the congressional estimate.

Wall Street also is raising doubts about the White House's budget optimism. Sung Won Sohn, chief economist at Wells Fargo & Co. and a noted economic optimist, warned clients that week, "The budget deficit could lead to sharply higher inflation, rising interest rates and a falling dollar unless measures are taken to restrain them."

In fact, both the optimists and the pessimists may be correct, budget experts say. The difference is whether they are counting budget authority, which is the spending authorized by Congress each year, or outlays, the funds actually shelled out by the government. Federal budget authority climbed 11 percent in 2002 and 15.3 percent in 2003, but if Congress and Bush refrain from enacting additional emergency spending bills over the next nine months, budget authority this fiscal year will rise only 3.1 percent, said the Congressional Budget Office, a nonpartisan scorekeeper.

Actual spending, however, shows little sign of abatement. Outlays rose 13.2 percent in fiscal 2002, 15.2 percent in 2003 and 8.9 percent in 2004 -- an average growth rate of 12.4 percent.

The problem is that Congress can authorize spending levels, but lawmakers have little control over how fast the government writes the checks, budget analysts say. In 2002, for instance, Congress approved a 26 percent increase in military spending for the next fiscal year. But actual defense spending climbed 20.5 percent. With so much money still in the pipeline, lawmakers approved virtually no defense spending increase for this year, knowing that actual military spending is expected to climb 10.1 percent.

J.T. Young, a spokesman for the White House budget office, likened the debate to a holiday shopping trip. If a shopper spends a total of $500 one day using four credit cards, should he tell his wife he spent $500 when he comes home, or should he tell her about each bill as he writes the checks to the credit card companies?

"Serious budget people want to count budgeting decisions," Young said. "If you want to count decisions, you count [budget authority]. If you count outlays, you're just counting disbursements."

Riedl and other critics generally agree, but, they say, Republicans in Washington -- anxious about the unhappiness of their conservative supporters -- are manipulating the authorizing numbers, making them all but irrelevant. Authorized spending rose 15.3 percent in 2003 in large part because of a $79 billion emergency "supplemental" spending bill passed shortly after the invasion of Iraq, Riedl said. But only half of that money was spent last year, allowing Congress to rein in authorized spending levels this year.

"It was probably unnecessary to go that high in 2003 budget authority," Riedl said, "but the White House understands that if they threw a lot into the supplemental, they would relieve pressure on their 2004 budget."
Lots of good information in this article. The part about inflation is in the eigth paragraph.
 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
9,993
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Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: sandorski
Yup, there are increasing concerns of Inflation as well.

You care to back that up? Cause in the 1,500 reports I've read, *Deflation* has been the only concern.

Consumer confidence drops suggest deferred spending and debt reduction which starts price drop scenarios which in time can cause Businesses to curtail their production and/or inventories which puts more folks out of work and then the downward spiral... I'd hope for inflation.. it is much healthier. But... Hocus Pocus is at work too.. it seems.

 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,859
6,394
126
Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: sandorski
Yup, there are increasing concerns of Inflation as well.

You care to back that up? Cause in the 1,500 reports I've read, *Deflation* has been the only concern.

Deflation was a concern. I listen/watch CNBC a few hours a day and increasingly pundits, Investors, and Economists have been raising the concern of Inflation. Some sugest it might begin in 2004, while others think it won't occur until 2005/2006. Reasons are given as the high budgetary Deficit, trade deficit, and the low $US.
 

alchemize

Lifer
Mar 24, 2000
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Thanks for everyone who quoted me lots of economists who said " inflation could become a concern". If you like, we could take turns pulling out economists who are also saying the market is ready for a 3,000 point drop, and some who say here comes 15,000. I'll believe it when I see anything near say...5%?

They've been chanting that mantra since the early 90's.

Greenspan has it under control, imho. Deflation is a much more serious concern than inflation.
 

dirtboy

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
6,745
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Originally posted by: alchemize
Greenspan has it under control, imho. Deflation is a much more serious concern than inflation.

*nods*

Greenspan is teh man.
 

Genesys

Golden Member
Nov 10, 2003
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Originally posted by: dirtboy
Originally posted by: alchemize
Greenspan has it under control, imho. Deflation is a much more serious concern than inflation.

*nods*

Greenspan is teh man.

yup, he gets along with everyone [libs and neo-cons alike] :D
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,915
6,792
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Originally posted by: Genesys
Originally posted by: dirtboy
Originally posted by: alchemize
Greenspan has it under control, imho. Deflation is a much more serious concern than inflation.

*nods*

Greenspan is teh man.

yup, he gets along with everyone [libs and neo-cons alike] :D

Not me. I consider him to be a perfect ass. Too few unemployed and wages go up causing inflationary pressures, so up the jobless rate and no minimum wage. Kids go hungry so the wealthy thrive.
 

dirtboy

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
6,745
1
81
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Originally posted by: Genesys
Originally posted by: dirtboy
Originally posted by: alchemize
Greenspan has it under control, imho. Deflation is a much more serious concern than inflation.

*nods*

Greenspan is teh man.

yup, he gets along with everyone [libs and neo-cons alike] :D

Not me. I consider him to be a perfect ass. Too few unemployed and wages go up causing inflationary pressures, so up the jobless rate and no minimum wage. Kids go hungry so the wealthy thrive.

Perhaps you lack sufficient knowledge to understand how the Fed and the economy works, but that appears to be your problem.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,859
6,394
126
Originally posted by: alchemize
Thanks for everyone who quoted me lots of economists who said " inflation could become a concern". If you like, we could take turns pulling out economists who are also saying the market is ready for a 3,000 point drop, and some who say here comes 15,000. I'll believe it when I see anything near say...5%?

They've been chanting that mantra since the early 90's.

Greenspan has it under control, imho. Deflation is a much more serious concern than inflation.

Your welcome. Keep your ears/eyes peeled though, the tide is turning.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,915
6,792
126
Originally posted by: dirtboy
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Originally posted by: Genesys
Originally posted by: dirtboy
Originally posted by: alchemize
Greenspan has it under control, imho. Deflation is a much more serious concern than inflation.

*nods*

Greenspan is teh man.

yup, he gets along with everyone [libs and neo-cons alike] :D

Not me. I consider him to be a perfect ass. Too few unemployed and wages go up causing inflationary pressures, so up the jobless rate and no minimum wage. Kids go hungry so the wealthy thrive.

Perhaps you lack sufficient knowledge to understand how the Fed and the economy works, but that appears to be your problem.

You're an interesting fellow. You question my knowledge and understanding and suggest it's my problem. I would have thought that even a souless idiot would see the problems belong to those hungry kids.
 

dirtboy

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
6,745
1
81
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
You're an interesting fellow. You question my knowledge and understanding and suggest it's my problem. I would have thought that even a souless idiot would see the problems belong to those hungry kids.

You're a boring fellow. You don't amuse me at all.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,915
6,792
126
Originally posted by: dirtboy
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
You're an interesting fellow. You question my knowledge and understanding and suggest it's my problem. I would have thought that even a souless idiot would see the problems belong to those hungry kids.

You're a boring fellow. You don't amuse me at all.

Well that's good news because I hadn't intended to. You did get though, that peek in the mirror.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,915
6,792
126
Originally posted by: xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx
Originally posted by: dirtboy

Perhaps you lack sufficient knowledge to understand how the Fed and the economy works, but that appears to be your problem.

Nice :)

This has nothing to do with France you lunitic Francophobe!

 

GrGr

Diamond Member
Sep 25, 2003
3,204
1
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The economic growth is a flash in the pan. By July 2004 the effects will have evaporated. The numbers we are seeing now is the effect of various measures to get the economy going (tax cuts, lowered rates, federal money etc). But the effect of those measures will not last and the next tax cut (april 2004) will end up in the pockets of those who already have "surplus spending power". The dollar will continue to fall (about 30 per cent more). Oh and by next summer unemployment will rise again as jobs disappear. (The cost of manpower in the US rises with 4 per cent a year while the cost of machinery dicreases by 2 per cent a year).

I read it in the paper so it must be true.
 

Genesys

Golden Member
Nov 10, 2003
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Originally posted by: GrGr
The economic growth is a flash in the pan. By July 2004 the effects will have evaporated. The numbers we are seeing now is the effect of various measures to get the economy going (tax cuts, lowered rates, federal money etc). But the effect of those measures will not last and the next tax cut (april 2004) will end up in the pockets of those who already have "surplus spending power". The dollar will continue to fall (about 30 per cent more). Oh and by next summer unemployment will rise again as jobs disappear. (The cost of manpower in the US rises with 4 per cent a year while the cost of machinery dicreases by 2 per cent a year).

I read it in the paper so it must be true.

what is it with you people [and by you people, i mean liberals in general] and thinking that tax cuts are for the rich only [or as GrGr puts it, those with 'surplus spending power']? everyone that pays their federal taxes [and thats everyone with a legal job] gets a tax refund. its not just the 'rich' who get tax refunds like you obviously love to think [cause brother, let me tell you, i am not rich by any measure]

and if the unemployed would just suck in their pride and go get a job [any job! even a crap job working at UPS or something!] then they could become productive members of society again [and not just leeches] and help the economy even more [and put an end to liberal whining] and no one says their new crap job at UPS is going to permanent, they should just accept work while theyre not doing anything and look for a job in their carreer field in their spare time.