Today is the day (60 day mark for Libya)

[blackangst1]

So today we will find out of Obama will comply with the War Powers Act. There is some controversy as to the constitutionality of the Act, but nevertheless Obama must make a decision today to pull out or request congressional permission to continue military action against a country that poses no threat to the US.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.co...sident-on-war-powers-deadline/?iref=allsearch

As the U.S. military campaign in Libya approaches the 60-day mark this Friday, six Republican senators wrote President Obama asking if he will comply with the War Powers Act, which says Congress must authorize action that lasts more than 60 days.

The GOP senators said they believe the president already violated part of the War Powers Act – which says the president's constitutional powers allow him to only deploy troops into "hostilities" with a declaration of war, specific authorization from Congress or a national emergency caused by an attack on the U.S.
But the president did follow the provision in the 1973 law requiring him to provide information to Congress about committing U.S. forces. Now the question is whether he will abide by the part of the War Powers Act which says he must get Congressional permission within 60 days.

McCain said he doesn't believe the War Powers Act is constitutional and therefore he doesn't believe the president needs congressional authorization to continue the mission.

"I've never recognized the constitutionality of the War Powers Act, nor has any president, either Republican or Democrat," McCain said.

 

[Genx87]

And we celebrated our 60th day of enforcing a no-fly zone by bombing their navy. Makes sense.

 

[First]

Meh. Seriously, why care? The distinction between this and an actual war with a significant contingent of military personnel is quite large. The only real concern is that we end up being there forever. Hopefully that's not the case and, frankly, does anyone here even know if we have any significant presence in Libya anymore?

 

[werepossum]

Meh. Seriously, why care? The distinction between this and an actual war with a significant contingent of military personnel is quite large. The only real concern is that we end up being there forever. Hopefully that's not the case and, frankly, does anyone here even know if we have any significant presence in Libya anymore?

I care, for one. A President above all others needs to follow the law. Failure to comply would be grounds for impeachment, although since today impeachment is almost totally a political thing, there's no absolutely chance the Democrat-controlled Senate will impeach.

I'm interested in what he does as well. I'm still assuming that Obama has valid reasons for entering this conflict, but merely hasn't given them, perhaps for national security, perhaps out of pure arrogance. If true, then presumably at least Republican leaders in Congress have seen the same intel (although they wouldn't necessarily come to the same conclusions.) For what it's worth, assuming that the United Kingdom and/or France have identified national interests in this conflict and requested our help as an ally, I'd consider that a valid reason.

 

[First]

I care, for one. A President above all others needs to follow the law. Failure to comply would be grounds for impeachment, although since today impeachment is almost totally a political thing, there's no absolutely chance the Democrat-controlled Senate will impeach.

I'm interested in what he does as well. I'm still assuming that Obama has valid reasons for entering this conflict, but merely hasn't given them, perhaps for national security, perhaps out of pure arrogance. If true, then presumably at least Republican leaders in Congress have seen the same intel (although they wouldn't necessarily come to the same conclusions.) For what it's worth, assuming that the United Kingdom and/or France have identified national interests in this conflict and requested our help as an ally, I'd consider that a valid reason.

There's no indication he's breaking the law though so it's not particularly interesting. It seems like a bunch of partisan Senators trying to limit executive branch powers. They're certainly within their rights to do so, but nothing particularly illegal seems to be going on.

 

[blackangst1]

There's no indication he's breaking the law though so it's not particularly interesting. It seems like a bunch of partisan Senators trying to limit executive branch powers. They're certainly within their rights to do so, but nothing particularly illegal seems to be going on.

Gotcha. Kinda like Iraq.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

This is all about training our pilots and improving our readiness as we haven't many bombing runs in Iraq or Afghanistan in the last few years..

 

[p0nd]

This is all about training our pilots and improving our readiness as we haven't many bombing runs in Iraq or Afghanistan in the last few years..

don't be ridiculous. that would be so expensive and impractical it doesn't even make sense. nobody trains troops in a war zone. why are we there? oil, which goes to our allies in europe, and probably some other reasons yet to be disclosed, if ever.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Who said I was being serious?

 

[p0nd]

oh. well you can never be too sure 'round these parts

my bad

 

[Londo_Jowo]

No problem, I should have included the sarcasm tags.........

 

[JSt0rm]

Gotcha. Kinda like Iraq.

You see no difference between the 2?

 

[werepossum]

There's no indication he's breaking the law though so it's not particularly interesting. It seems like a bunch of partisan Senators trying to limit executive branch powers. They're certainly within their rights to do so, but nothing particularly illegal seems to be going on.

If it goes on beyond today without Congressional approval, there's every indication that he's breaking the law. Only Congress can declare war. The War Powers Act was a recognition that Congress often moves more slowly than the pace of modern warfare, and thus that the President needs to be able to move immediately to effectively do his job of leading our armed forces. If the President can wage war beyond the War Powers Act, Congress' Constitutional power is negated totally. If the War Powers Act is found to be unconstitutional, then the President has no authority to enter any conflict without prior Congressional approval. Either way, Obama needs Congressional approval, in a formal bill or motion.

 

[First]

Gotcha. Kinda like Iraq.

Except Iraq was invaded for entirely false reasons.

 

[First]

If it goes on beyond today without Congressional approval, there's every indication that he's breaking the law. Only Congress can declare war. The War Powers Act was a recognition that Congress often moves more slowly than the pace of modern warfare, and thus that the President needs to be able to move immediately to effectively do his job of leading our armed forces. If the President can wage war beyond the War Powers Act, Congress' Constitutional power is negated totally. If the War Powers Act is found to be unconstitutional, then the President has no authority to enter any conflict without prior Congressional approval. Either way, Obama needs Congressional approval, in a formal bill or motion.

Your definition of war is the issue here, as is the usage of troops. Again, I ask, do we have any significant presence in Libya anymore and have we declared war? Figure it out.

 

[cwjerome]

I'd rather curtail the 3300+ days we've been with Afghanistan.

When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains
And the women come out to cut up what remains
Just roll to your rifle and blow out your brains
An' go to your Gawd like a soldier.
--- Rudyard Kipling

 

[CallMeJoe]

Your definition of war is the issue here, as is the usage of troops. Again, I ask, do we have any significant presence in Libya anymore and have we declared war? Figure it out.

Entirely aside from those questions, can anyone deny that our military has been regularly committing true Acts of War against Libya over the last sixty days?

The President needs either to comply with the War Powers Act or to explain why he thinks that Act is unconstitutional or inapplicable. Any other course should leave him open to censure or impeachment.

edit: in response to a point First makes below, the president alternately could suspend any further military action against Libya.

 

[blackangst1]

Except Iraq was invaded for entirely false reasons.

You dont need a reason apparently.

 

[First]

You dont need a reason apparently.

There's no "apparently", the U.S. had a good one for Libya.

 

[First]

Entirely aside from those questions, can anyone deny that our military has been regularly committing true Acts of War against Libya over the last sixty days?
The President needs either to comply with the War Powers Act or to explain why he thinks that Act is unconstitutional or inapplicable. Any other course should leave him open to censure or impeachment.

Are we still bombing Libya? Serious question.

 

[blackangst1]

Are we still bombing Libya? Serious question.

Last bombing was today. So yes.

 

[Schadenfroh]

There's no "apparently", the U.S. had a good one for Libya.

Such as?

 

[blackangst1]

There's no "apparently", the U.S. had a good one for Libya.

Really? Because of genocide? Whats your explaination of the genocide thats been happening in Africa for decades that we do nothing about? That pales Libya in comparison. I know you cant answer that.

 

[Genx87]

There's no "apparently", the U.S. had a good one for Libya.

What is that? 20% of them are fighting against Ghaddafi because they believe he is Jewish? Or because there is a good sprinkling of AQ in the east of the country? It boggles the mind why we are in Libya.

 

[Genx87]

Really? Because of genocide? Whats your explaination of the genocide thats been happening in Africa for decades that we do nothing about? That pales Libya in comparison. I know you cant answer that.

Genocide and protecting citizens is such a weak argument anyways. On a numbers basis Ghaddafi needs to kill a lot more to catch up to Saddam. But none of these people supporting prolonging the pain in Libya would support invading Iraq to save the citizens.

And define citizen anyways. How can we tell who is a citizen vs a rebel? How can we tell from an aircraft traveling several hundred miles per hour?