To those who make or have a lot of $$$

[Kroze]

How do you hide your assets?

I'm sure you all know why someone would want to do that. I mean the ultimate goal is to own nothing and control everything right?

- Pay off your house? Since you'll no longer have any money left in the bank, you wouldn't appear as "rich"

- Take your money out of the bank and convert them into cash & placed it in a deposit box? You now officially have no money "on record."?

- Offshore banking? But how do you withdraw it? is it secured/insured/guaranteed?

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Give your money to me. I'll hide it real good.

 

[shortylickens]

Safe deposit box.
No interest on it, but the good news is, there will be no interest in it.
:sneaky:

Bank interest is a joke anyway. Better to have untouchable cash than numbers in a computer which can be taxed to death.

 

[PaperclipGod]

Dunno, this is what accountants are for.

 

[Kroze]

Safe deposit box.
No interest on it, but the good news is, there will be no interest in it.
:sneaky:

Bank interest is a joke anyway. Better to have untouchable cash than numbers in a computer which can be taxed to death.

Also that money in the bank means people would want to sue you for whatever reason and steal all of it. :thumbsdown:

 

[brianmanahan]

everyone on this forum in penniless

 

[guyver01]

How do you hide your assets?

:hmm:

isn't that illegal?

 

[CrazyAznDriver]

trust? wife is a doctor and we have one to protect assests.

 

[Perknose]

trust? wife is a doctor and we have one to protect assests.

"In trust we're Gods."

It's on all the money you "don't" have, right?

 

[Leros]

everyone on this forum in penniless

Also nickelless and dimeless and quarterless. Change (and usually dollar bills) are for throwing at poor people.

 

[Mike Gayner]

I'm an accountant so this is a big part of what I do for a living. BTW most people aren't interested in "hiding" assets, just creating entities to separate themselves from their assets.

Don't know about in the US, but trusts are used extensively here. Most moderately affluent people will have their assets in a trust.

edit: Of course, if you're interested in actually hiding assets (eg to evade tax) then there's not really much you can do within the law. But there's a lot of pretty simple non-legal solutions.

 

[Kroze]

"In trust we're Gods."

It's on all the money you "don't" have, right?

So you can be the depositor, trustee and beneficiary in a trust right? Where do you put the money? in the bank? Wouldn't that defeat the whole purpose since the money is still "on the grid?"

 

[Jaepheth]

How do you hide your assets?

I wear trousers

 

[Kroze]

I'm an accountant so this is a big part of what I do for a living. BTW most people aren't interested in "hiding" assets, just creating entities to separate themselves from their assets.

Don't know about in the US, but trusts are used extensively here. Most moderately affluent people will have their assets in a trust.

see post above for my question.

 

[Mike Gayner]

So you can be the depositor, trustee and beneficiary in a trust right? Where do you put the money? in the bank? Wouldn't that defeat the whole purpose since the money is still "on the grid?"

If you're wanting to get money "off the grid" then that's easy - take it in physical cash, gold/other precious metals/gems or move it to off-shore accounts.

As trust has (not sure of the terminology over there) a settlor/settlors, trustees and beneficiaries. The settlors create the trust and settle the original trust assets into it. The trustees administer the trust for the benefit of the beneficiaries. A legitimate trust may have beneficiaries and trustees in common, but should usually have at least one independent trustee and settlor.

Trust assets can be in any form - bank deposits, shares, property, etc. In NZ trust accounts are not public and not disclosed, even to the tax man. As you suggested, having a trust isn't about "hiding" assets, it's about separating them from yourself, so you're individually poor, but control the trust's assets. If the trust is legitimate, you'll have good asset protection from creditors, and you can manage trust tax/distributions at the trustees' whim (within limits).

 

[shortylickens]

I'm an accountant

You're kidding!

 

[Kroze]

If you're wanting to get money "off the grid" then that's easy - take it in physical cash, gold/other precious metals/gems or move it to off-shore accounts.

As trust has (not sure of the terminology over there) a settlor/settlors, trustees and beneficiaries. The settlors create the trust and settle the original trust assets into it. The trustees administer the trust for the benefit of the beneficiaries. A legitimate trust may have beneficiaries and trustees in common, but should usually have at least one independent trustee and settlor.

Trust assets can be in any form - bank deposits, shares, property, etc. In NZ trust accounts are not public and not disclosed, even to the tax man. As you suggested, having a trust isn't about "hiding" assets, it's about separating them from yourself, so you're individually poor, but control the trust's assets. If the trust is legitimate, you'll have good asset protection from creditors, and you can manage trust tax/distributions at the trustees' whim (within limits).

Okay say you created a trust where you're the settlor, trustee, and beneficiary where do you go to move your current asset into the trust account?

Do you create another bank account under the name of the trust and transfer your money over to it?

 

[CrazyAznDriver]

"In trust we're Gods."

It's on all the money you "don't" have, right?

what money? :sneaky:

 

[Mike Gayner]

Okay say you created a trust where you're the settlor, trustee, and beneficiary where do you go to move your current asset into the trust account?

Do you create another bank account under the name of the trust and transfer your money over to it?

Yup more or less. Keeping in mind (remember your double entry book keeping?) that this creates a counter-debt:
Dr Trust assets
Cr Loan to Settlor/Trustee

So the Trust now owes you money. I can't speak for the laws in the USA but in NZ you can "gift" that debt away (e.g. forgive your loan to the Trust), but this leaves a paper trail. There's also specific legislation in place here in NZ that allows some government organisations to look back through trust transactions less than around 7 years old, and reverse them if they're deemed by a court to be non-bona fide.

If that debit isn't forgiven, then when you're sued the debt to the trust will be considered an asset to the individual, and they will be required to settle the debt with the trust (eg trust needs to liquidate assets to pay back the loan), and you lose your creditor protection.

Also keep in mind that a trust where you're the sole settlor, trustee and beneficiary will be considered an alter ego by the courts if you're sued/prosecuted, and the trust will be "busted". Courts have been trust-busting here for a while now for trusts which are deemed non-bona fide, and the primary reason is lack of documentation and having characteristics of an alter ego. You need to treat trust assets as belonging to the trust, and no longer your personal assets.

 

[Imp]

Don't have to. My great right-wing government gave us tax-free savings accounts. Limit is $5k a year, I've been eligible for 3 years, so do the math. Even if my savings quadruple (investment accounts count), I pay jackshit on capital gains!

 

[Mike Gayner]

I believe this thread was about people who have lots of money, not people who have < $5k in savings.

Also, we have no capital gains tax at all here. pwnd.

 

[Bignate603]

Also that money in the bank means people would want to sue you for whatever reason and steal all of it. :thumbsdown:

Why would random people know how much money you have in your account? They'd only know if you told them, made it clear by your lifestyle that you had huge amounts of money, were in a job where you were well known and the compensation was published. That would include some government jobs where the salary for certain positions is now (though you're not likely to make too much the majority of government jobs) or some companies publish their top executive's compensation. You seem to be concerned about something that really isn't likely to be a problem unless you actively try to make it one.

 

[Scouzer]

Don't have to. My great right-wing government gave us tax-free savings accounts. Limit is $5k a year, I've been eligible for 3 years, so do the math. Even if my savings quadruple (investment accounts count), I pay jackshit on capital gains!

Downside is you can't claim capital losses. Still awesome

 

[Soundmanred]

That's what my accountant is for.

 

[Kroze]

Yup more or less. Keeping in mind (remember your double entry book keeping?) that this creates a counter-debt:
Dr Trust assets
Cr Loan to Settlor/Trustee

So the Trust now owes you money. I can't speak for the laws in the USA but in NZ you can "gift" that debt away (e.g. forgive your loan to the Trust), but this leaves a paper trail. There's also specific legislation in place here in NZ that allows some government organisations to look back through trust transactions less than around 7 years old, and reverse them if they're deemed by a court to be non-bona fide.

If that debit isn't forgiven, then when you're sued the debt to the trust will be considered an asset to the individual, and they will be required to settle the debt with the trust (eg trust needs to liquidate assets to pay back the loan), and you lose your creditor protection.

Also keep in mind that a trust where you're the sole settlor, trustee and beneficiary will be considered an alter ego by the courts if you're sued/prosecuted, and the trust will be "busted". Courts have been trust-busting here for a while now for trusts which are deemed non-bona fide, and the primary reason is lack of documentation and having characteristics of an alter ego. You need to treat trust assets as belonging to the trust, and no longer your personal assets.

Ok so say I created a trust named..."For myself" where a family member is a trustee, can I go to the bank to withdraw the money on an as needed basis or the trustee must go to the bank to do it? Also since the money belong to a trust, does that mean I have to name the authorized user/users to withdraw when i open a trust account with the bank?

And when you "gift" the loan to creditor, what kind of paperwork am i looking to fill out?