To those who are Catholic and think masturbation is wrong...

[Grunt03]

I think that it's my hand and it's my dick, if I want to play with it then screw the rest of the world.

 

[yllus]

Haha, the Church and the Bible. I can just imagine dying and taking this huge escalator up to the gates of Heaven...

God: Hmm. *flips through my chart* You lived the straight and narrow pretty well. Never killed a man unjustly, a minor amount of coveting, no false witnessing...oh, wait a sec. So you're a self-toucher, huh?
Me: Well, see, uh, I had a medical condition...
God: *BZZZT* REJECTED! *slams hand down on big red button marked 'Hell'*

I can't believe that human beings in this day and age believe in following such ridiculous arbitrary rules so they don't get rejected from an imaginary paradise in the sky. Yeah, an all-knowing and perfect God is reeeeeeeally going to care that you fapped it to Jessica Alba in Idle Hands.

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

Originally posted by: moshquerade
no, you need to go get FIXED!

Just curious, how can you be Catholic yet stand in direct contradiction to Catholic teaching? If you don't believe it, then why associate with them? This is what led me to call you a John Kerry Catholic - seems that you're culturally, rather than religiously, Catholic.

because i can be Catholic and yet realize that my body is my body, and not be ashamed of it.

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: moshquerade
because i can be Catholic and yet realize that my body is my body, and not be ashamed of it.

Did anyone ask you to be ashamed of it? Not that I've seen. You've only been asked to live in accord with reason rather than instinct.

 

[Kenazo]

Hey, Stefan, how did your trip to India go? I take it the trip must have been quite long to prompt a thread such as this.

 

[neonerd]

Originally posted by: FleshLight
On a side note:

There are Jews in the world, there are Buddists,
There are Hindus and Mormons and then
There are those that follow Mohammad, but
I've never been one of them.

I'm a Roman Catholic,
And have been since before I was born,
And the one thing they say about Catholics is
They'll take you as soon as you're warm.

You don't have to be a six footer,
You don't have to have a great brain,
You don't have to have any clothes on,
You're a Catholic the moment Dad came, because

Every sperm is sacred,
Every sperm is great,
If a sperm is wasted,
God gets quite irate.

Every sperm is sacred,
Every sperm is great,
If a sperm is wasted,
God gets quite irate.

Let the heathen spill theirs,
On the dusty ground,
God shall make them pay for
Each sperm that can't be found.

Every sperm is wanted,
Every sperm is good,
Every sperm is needed,
In your neighborhood.

Hindu, Taoist, Morman,
Spill theirs just anywhere,
But God loves those who treat their
Semen with more care.

Every sperm is sacred,
Every sperm is great,
If a sperm is wasted,
God gets quite irate.

Every sperm is sacred,
Every sperm is good,
Every sperm is needed,
In your neighborhood.

Every sperm is useful,
Every sperm is fine,
God needs everybody's,
Mine, and mine, and mine.

Let the pagans spill theirs,
O'er mountain, hill and plain.
God shall strike them down for
Each sperm that's spilt in vain.

Every sperm is sacred,
Every sperm is good,
Every sperm is needed,
In your neighborhood.

Every sperm is sacred,
Every sperm is great,
If a sperm is wasted,
God gets quite irate.

:laugh::thumbsup:

isn't it awfully nice to have a penis?
isn't it frightfully good to have a dong?

 

[Kipper]

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

Originally posted by: moshquerade
no, you need to go get FIXED!

Just curious, how can you be Catholic yet stand in direct contradiction to Catholic teaching? If you don't believe it, then why associate with them? This is what led me to call you a John Kerry Catholic - seems that you're culturally, rather than religiously, Catholic.

because i can be Catholic and yet realize that my body is my body, and not be ashamed of it.

Just because someone does not accord with the doctrines of the Catholic church 100% does not mean that they are not Catholic. After all, I don't agree with the majority of current American politics and social pressure, but that doesn't make me any less Catholic. In others' eyes you may not be Catholic, but ultimately it's what boils down to you, and what you consider important. This is what the essence of religion SHOULD embody. Ultimately, however, people can't mind their own damn business.

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: MadCowDisease
Just because someone does not accord with the doctrines of the Catholic church 100% does not mean that they are not Catholic. After all, I don't agree with the majority of current American politics and social pressure, but that doesn't make me any less Catholic. In others' eyes you may not be Catholic, but ultimately it's what boils down to you, and what you consider important. This is what the essence of religion SHOULD embody. Ultimately, however, people can't mind their own damn business.

I understand full well that you don't have to agree 100% with what the Catholic Church teaches to 'be' Catholic, but I have a hard time wrapping my brain around why someone who obviously disdains Catholic teaching(s) would still 'be' Catholic (not trying to call out anyone in particular, just a disturbing trend that I've noticed). Many 'Catholics' that I know think just about everything about Catholicism is stupid. I don't mind my own business when someone claims to be Catholic, yet rants on how stupid/unrealistic/whatever else Catholic beliefs are (read: my ex). if Catholicism is so offensive, stop being Catholic. /rant

 

[BigToque]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

Originally posted by: MadCowDisease
Just because someone does not accord with the doctrines of the Catholic church 100% does not mean that they are not Catholic. After all, I don't agree with the majority of current American politics and social pressure, but that doesn't make me any less Catholic. In others' eyes you may not be Catholic, but ultimately it's what boils down to you, and what you consider important. This is what the essence of religion SHOULD embody. Ultimately, however, people can't mind their own damn business.

I understand full well that you don't have to agree 100% with what the Catholic Church teaches to 'be' Catholic, but I have a hard time wrapping my brain around why someone who obviously disdains Catholic teaching(s) would still 'be' Catholic (not trying to call out anyone in particular, just a disturbing trend that I've noticed). Many 'Catholics' that I know think just about everything about Catholicism is stupid. I don't mind my own business when someone claims to be Catholic, yet rants on how stupid/unrealistic/whatever else Catholic beliefs are (read: my ex). if Catholicism is so offensive, stop being Catholic. /rant

Many people I know call themselves catholic because it's some kind of status thing or something. They feel proud to call themselves catholic but don't practice (or even really know) anything about their religion.

 

[BigToque]

Originally posted by: Kenazo
Hey, Stefan, how did your trip to India go? I take it the trip must have been quite long to prompt a thread such as this.

The trip was fine actually... India is a tough place to live though when you have never been anywhere but 1st world countries.

Singapore was awesome though

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: xirtam
Originally posted by: xirtam
Wow! I woke up this morning to a whole bunch of fun!

Saying one way or interpretation is the right way is purely absurd and ARROGANT.

Is this statement purely absurd and ARROGANT? Is it right? Your argument defeats itself.

but the question of whether God exists is philosophical simply because there is NOT an absolute truth.

Is the fact that there is NOT an absolute truth an absolutely true statement? Your argument, once again, defeats itself.

HAHA! You really think that, eh? Your existence proves absolute truth? Please, mention that to any educated being at a major University, and see what they say. PROVE that absolute truth exists -- you cannot. It has everything to do with philosophy. The question of absolute truth is a philosophical one, therefore you cannot say for sure, whether it exists or not. You can give a compelling argument, but so far you haven't even done that. I'm waiting for something substantive.

Personal existence is a good philosophical starting point. Why? Because it's actually undeniable that I exist. If I try to deny it, I prove that I exist. Follow the Winnie the Pooh logic. "Somebody has to be there to say 'Nobody.'" As far as "the question of absolute truth is a philosophical one, therefore you cannot say for sure, whether it exists or not." You must assume more than you can know to make this claim. Because you are sure that you cannot be sure of the existence of absolute truth. How can you be sure?

You seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of philosophy, absolute truth,and mutually exclusive things.

For the above reasons, I find this statement to be the most ironic out of the bunch.

Impossible to know whom is correct or to what degree they are correct.

You must assume that something is correct in order to believe that it is "impossible to know." Your argument commits suicide again.

Nothing is absolute, there is no truth. Prove otherwise...

Is that a true statement? (You just did.) Do you exist? If you say "no," you have proven that you do, in fact, exist, because you have, in act, denied your existence. Something must exist to deny its own existence.

However, the problem occurs when people start preaching that they have absolute truth, when there is a margin of error (when isn't there?)

So you could be wrong about there not being absolute truth? Really? I'm inclined to agree.

Wow, some people can be dense.

Concurred.

Yeah, umm, care to say why my arguments "defeat themselves" with some proof or something other than because xirtam said so?

Consider in this thread on the last page and last post, you had the same viewpoint as me, that the truth is colored by one's perceptions and culture, and that no one can say that they have the truth.

You can say my arguments lacked enough proof, but logically they were just fine. They didn't defeat themselves at all, and presupposition is all a part of philosophical thinking. Sometimes they/you/I have to suppose that something is true or happened to get to the next step, but that doesn't mean there is absolute truth.

Please, provide some logic and/or an argument to prove absolute truth. An acceptance of truth, does not mean that the truth is therefore absolute. I could except that the rape of a good friend was bad and I would say that is truthful, but is that absolutely truthful? Lets say the rape prevented the death of a 1,000 people, could I then consider that rape to be bad? It is situtational and subjective.

Is murder bad? To me, yes, absolutely, so -- no. I consider the murder of an inncocent child to be bad, but the murder of a serial killer by the state wouldn't be bad to me, it would be good.

I'm asking for a case in which you think absolute truth is true without using *faith* as a basis for the truth of it. I cannot think of anything. Even laws such as gravity require us to assume things that are variable and could change. There are some out there that don't believe that gravity is an absolute truth. Under some circumstances it might not have the same effect on this earth, or a totally different effect. It is a reach, but that's what some think.

Most people I know are very careful about absolute truth. They will not refuse to consider any possability, but instead use rational truth. They can assume that something is likely or close to be truthful, but they don't have to accept absolute truth.

You said:

"Is that a true statement? (You just did.)"

Umm, no that does not prove absolute truth in the slightest.

You say that denying my existsence is acknowledging it and therefore proof. Yes, Decartes said I think therefore I am, but there are some serious problems with his logic. Read here.

As far as "the question of absolute truth is a philosophical one, therefore you cannot say for sure, whether it exists or not." You must assume more than you can know to make this claim. Because you are sure that you cannot be sure of the existence of absolute truth. How can you be sure?

Because if there were proof -- it would be based in science and not philosophy. I can accept science as being as close to absolute truth as possible without crossing over. I never said that I was sure that there wasn't absolute truth, I said that is what I believed. My defense is that I haven't seen proof otherwise, so if you want to prove it to me then feel free to. Finally, I'd say that absolute truth *IS* a philosophical one, for if it were scientific then it wouldn't be one of the most debated philosophical questions -- it would be accepted as having some truth. Case in point, the debate here.

So you could be wrong about there not being absolute truth? Really? I'm inclined to agree.

I'd say you are mostly wrong about the assumptions you've made just by being exposed to Descartes...

Is the fact that there is NOT an absolute truth an absolutely true statement? Your argument, once again, defeats itself.

I never said it was fact, but then again it could be fact and not absolute truth, imo. You are assuming and distorting things to attack my argument, which of course is fallacy, the kind being a strawman.

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

Originally posted by: moshquerade
because i can be Catholic and yet realize that my body is my body, and not be ashamed of it.

Did anyone ask you to be ashamed of it? Not that I've seen. You've only been asked to live in accord with reason rather than instinct.

And who says what is in accord? This is the whole reason that I said religious viewpoints are subjective. You might think that masturbation is wrong and be Catholic, but someone else might be Catholic and disagree. Furthermore, there are many sects and sub-sects of religious denominations out there, so even painting with a denominational brush is too much.

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

Originally posted by: moshquerade
because i can be Catholic and yet realize that my body is my body, and not be ashamed of it.

Did anyone ask you to be ashamed of it? Not that I've seen. You've only been asked to live in accord with reason rather than instinct.

you need to tell that to all the Catholic priests who sexually molested boys! there ya go. at least i only touch myself.

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: moshquerade
you need to tell that to all the Catholic priests who sexually molested boys! there ya go. at least i only touch myself.

Done wasting my time with that one...

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

Originally posted by: moshquerade
you need to tell that to all the Catholic priests who sexually molested boys! there ya go. at least i only touch myself.

Done wasting my time with that one...

yeh, cause that one cuts to the bone, huh? that is one thing that totally makes me PUKE about the Catholic church. all the coverups with the pervert priests. it makes me ashamed to be Catholic.
you can't even defend that.

and you think masturbation is wrong? there is no comparison.

 

[flexy]

There is no mention of masturbation in the bible, but it is mentioned in the Catechism of the Catholic church.

Ok,

and how COMPETENT is your ****** church or your priest in matters of sex and relationships ?

If i had a question about sexuality, the church for sure would be the LAST place on earth i'd look for advice.

 

[Kadarin]

I believe the fact that the Catholic Church tries to narrow the focus of human sexuality such that it fits within strict guidelines set by the Church to be completely idiotic. Not to mention the fact that the Catholic Church is hardly the moral authority to speak on all things sexual...

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: moshquerade
yeh, cause that one cuts to the bone, huh? that is one thing that totally makes me PUKE about the Catholic church. all the coverups with the pervert priests. it makes me ashamed to be Catholic.
you can't even defend that.

and you think masturbation is wrong? there is no comparison.

http://www.nizkor.org/features...ongs-make-a-right.html

Do you puke when you think of public schools? Other religions? The problems that they've had in the exact same area are worse than the Catholic Church's. Not making excuses, just stating facts. People just had more faith in the Catholic Church - that's why it made so much noise when it came out.

Originally posted by: Astaroth33
I believe the fact that the Catholic Church tries to narrow the focus of human sexuality such that it fits within strict guidelines set by the Church to be completely idiotic. Not to mention the fact that the Catholic Church is hardly the moral authority to speak on all things sexual...

It does no such thing. I already said how the Church determines its position on sexual acts: through the dual purposes of sexuality. I've not yet seen anyone even attempt to question this stance.

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

Originally posted by: moshquerade
yeh, cause that one cuts to the bone, huh? that is one thing that totally makes me PUKE about the Catholic church. all the coverups with the pervert priests. it makes me ashamed to be Catholic.
you can't even defend that.

and you think masturbation is wrong? there is no comparison.

http://www.nizkor.org/features...ongs-make-a-right.html

Do you puke when you think of public schools? Other religions? The problems that they've had in the exact same area are worse than the Catholic Church's. Not making excuses, just stating facts. People just had more faith in the Catholic Church - that's why it made so much noise when it came out.

Originally posted by: Astaroth33
I believe the fact that the Catholic Church tries to narrow the focus of human sexuality such that it fits within strict guidelines set by the Church to be completely idiotic. Not to mention the fact that the Catholic Church is hardly the moral authority to speak on all things sexual...

It does no such thing. I already said how the Church determines its position on sexual acts: through the dual purposes of sexuality. I've not yet seen anyone even attempt to question this stance.

you are too making excuses by saying public schools and other religions have sexual predators inside their walls. that does not excuse Catholic priests one bit.
it makes me puke because they covered it up for SO MANY YEARS!
and now... who is paying? who is paying for all the lawsuits brought about by all these victims?
you are! i am! anyone who gives money to the Catholic church is paying for what these pedofile priests have done.

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: moshquerade
you are too making excuses by saying public schools and other religions have sexual predators inside their walls. that does not excuse Catholic priests one bit.
it makes me puke because they covered it up for SO MANY YEARS!
and now... who is paying? who is paying for all the lawsuits brought about by all these victims?
you are! i am! anyone who gives money to the Catholic church is paying for what these pedofile priests have done.

Still curious: what does this have to do with the discussion at hand? X was bad, so I can be bad too?

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

Originally posted by: moshquerade
you are too making excuses by saying public schools and other religions have sexual predators inside their walls. that does not excuse Catholic priests one bit.
it makes me puke because they covered it up for SO MANY YEARS!
and now... who is paying? who is paying for all the lawsuits brought about by all these victims?
you are! i am! anyone who gives money to the Catholic church is paying for what these pedofile priests have done.

Still curious: what does this have to do with the discussion at hand? X was bad, so I can be bad too?

you called me a JohnKerry Catholic, aka questioning my Catholicism, and i questioned Catholicism itself when it covers up pedophilia amongst it's leaders.
should we take verbatim all the Catholic church teaches when it has been so hypocritical? ask yourself that.

 

[Phokus]

Catholics against masturbation = it's no wonder why there are so many pedophile priests

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: moshquerade
you called me a JohnKerry Catholic, aka questioning my Catholicism, and i questioned Catholicism itself when it covers up pedophilia amongst it's leaders.
should we take verbatim all the Catholic church teaches when it has been so hypocritical? ask yourself that.

I'm asking you to think for yourself. On what logical grounds do you oppose the CC's stance on masturbation?

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: Phokus
Catholics against masturbation = it's no wonder why there are so many pedophile priests

that and they take a vow of celibacy. i believe they are the only religion that doesn't allow their spiritual leaders to marry and have children.

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

Originally posted by: moshquerade
you called me a JohnKerry Catholic, aka questioning my Catholicism, and i questioned Catholicism itself when it covers up pedophilia amongst it's leaders.
should we take verbatim all the Catholic church teaches when it has been so hypocritical? ask yourself that.

I'm asking you to think for yourself. On what logical grounds do you oppose the CC's stance on masturbation?

you answer the question. what is so wrong with it? should pleasure be sinful?