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To Soundstorm/Creative lovers and haters alike

P

parkbench

Senior member
I got this information from the nforcershq audio forums FAQ.

We all know why nforce3/4 don't have soundstorm; the mb manufacturers didn't see the need for an added cost to the mb when "no one really cared about it". yadda yadda

Fanboyism aside, Soundstorm is appreciated for two things.

1) Quality of SPDIF output
2) DD encoding.

1) The analog (headphone jack) outputs were not good quality for any of boards with Soundstorm. There is a tremendous quality difference when using SPDIF however.

2) DD encoding. With DD encoding we can use a coax digital input and get 5.1 channels out of one cable into our home theatre receivers instead of 6 analog jacks. With DD encoding I got 5.1 channels out of Doom3, UT2004, and Far Cry. The keypoint being that you can use your home theatre receiver. Without DD encoding, you only get stereo sound. This is not acceptable, and most receivers do not have DVD-Audio inputs (apparently these are the same plugs that computer speakers use) to create all the channels for sound. The problem with Creative (and Hercules/Turtle Beach) is that their Audigys do have SPDIF output, but they do not do the DD encoding. Soundstorm leaving the market means that anyone with a DD/DTS receiver made in the past 7 years is left with stereo sound on their setup.

To reiterate what I'm saying here is that with a Creative Audigy2, I would only get Stereo sound from a coax SPDIF output plug instead of 5.1.

Former Soundstorm users are now forced to do one of two things:
1) Buy a new receiver that supports DVD-Audio (several hundred bucks)
2) Settle for a computer sound system (several hundred bucks)
3) Lose their home-theatre setup and deal with it. (so upgrading actually becomes a downgrade!)


NOTE: It seems there is a major reason Creative has not put DD encoding on their hardware. Realtime DD encoding requires about 200MB of bandwidth, something that the PCI bus is just not capable of transmitting. Neither can USB2.0. That was the benefit of Soundstorm; since the encoder was on the motherboard itself and didn't have to shuttle through the PCI bus, the bandwidth was not a problem. PCI-Express may be able to handle this load and hopefully a new solution is just around the corner.
 
I kind of think nVidia will end up releasing a soundstorm PCI-express card down the road. I have the suspicion that nVidia decided that rather than charging everyone $10-20 for something only a handful of them will use, they could shave that cost off of the motherboard, and charge that handful $50-100 for their add-in solution.
 
Virge, The other topics degenerate into fanboyism and flamewars.

This is a new topic because I'm bringing important facts to the table in a concise post so anybody in the market for a sound solution can choose accordingly. Troll elsewhere please.
 
While this information may be new to some, I thought most of it was pretty common knowledge by now. Soundstorm audio users do face a problem as far as upgrading goes but as mentioned in this post there are some options for them. I actually think that discrete 5.1 analog inputs are not as uncommon on receivers as one would think. There are also software packages in development that can encode signals into a 5.1 Dolby digital one and send it out via digital, just like sound storm. Of course these software solutions would tax your CPU and are a lot less refined than Soundstorm is.
 
Gobucks raises an interesting point.... what if NV is planing on releasing their own SS card line. I know all the fanboys will take it as a kick in the ass and start with the whole "they are greedy corporate scum...all they are trying to do is make money" Well....yes. That is the purpose of a business. To make money, not serve the needs of man kind.

Anyway I digress. I would like to see NV enter the audio market. Give some real competition to Creative. I would buy a SS card, assuming it met the same quality as the previous onboard SS.
 
Although this is speculation on my part, I believe the solution will come with PCI-Express. I am not worried about spending a little bit more money, whether it be motherboard solution or PCI-E solution.

The main problems lie in the fact that nVidia and its partners dropped the ball on their customers. A need was created by them and it was met. Later it was dropped with nothing else available. Those who required the DD encoding may be a small market but it appealed to the high-end crowd; and most likely the same guys who buy the 6800GTs and Ultras. A similar parallel is people who buy convertibles or fully loaded Mercedes and BMW vehicles. Again, it's a small market, but if you're at the high-end everybody knows you and respects you.

If nVidia decides to put out a PCI-Express sound solution, I'd be fine with that, if I didn't already have a high end AGP graphics card, also made by nVidia. Their failure to think ahead segmented the market, and frustrated some highly satisfied customers.

However my main point still stands, I do not want to start a flame war, just lay out some info and facts so people can understand what's going on, what's currently out there, and what to look into if you want multi-channel high-end sound.
 
aug1516,

AFAIK, there are currently no software solutions out on the market right now. I tried to follow the thread on nforcershq about a Cmedia+ chip/software solution that has DD encoding in SOFTWARE. This requires CPU power which is a tradeoff. However, I have yet to see this hit the market or any benchmarks so as of now it seems to be speculation.

If it has been released please provide me with more information so myself and others can see if it would fit our needs.

Thanks!
 
Originally posted by: gobucks
I kind of think nVidia will end up releasing a soundstorm PCI-express card down the road. I have the suspicion that nVidia decided that rather than charging everyone $10-20 for something only a handful of them will use, they could shave that cost off of the motherboard, and charge that handful $50-100 for their add-in solution.
Click to expand...
I'd be fine with that. I'd just like to know for sure that it is going to happen.

 
Originally posted by: Megatomic
Originally posted by: gobucks
I kind of think nVidia will end up releasing a soundstorm PCI-express card down the road. I have the suspicion that nVidia decided that rather than charging everyone $10-20 for something only a handful of them will use, they could shave that cost off of the motherboard, and charge that handful $50-100 for their add-in solution.
Click to expand...
I'd be fine with that. I'd just like to know for sure that it is going to happen.
Click to expand...

it will . . .. for sure.


better now?
:roll:

 
NOTE: It seems there is a major reason Creative has not put DD encoding on their hardware. Realtime DD encoding requires about 200MB of bandwidth, something that the PCI bus is just not capable of transmitting. Neither can USB2.0.
Click to expand...
I'm confused. A game can send 5-channel analog data to the card over the PCI bus, but the card then needs 200MB of bandwidth to encode that data? Sounds like they just need to add a bit of local memory to the card so it can encode without using the bus.

For what Creative is charging for an Audigy 2 ZS (more than many motherboards that include a lot more PCB traces, ICs and other hardware) they should be able to add a little RAM and still make good monopoly profits.
 
Originally posted by: parkbench
Former Soundstorm users are now forced to do one of two things:

1) Buy a new receiver that supports DVD-Audio (several hundred bucks)
2) Settle for a computer sound system (several hundred bucks)
3) Lose their home-theatre setup and deal with it. (so upgrading actually becomes a downgrade!)
Click to expand...

Are you saying that all audio is encoded into discrete 5.1 channels when sent to analog output, but not SPDIF? If that's the case then I'd just buy a receiver with 6 channel analog input (sorry, "5.1" channel, that's all "DVD-Audio" input really is). If I was going to buy a HT receiver I'd want that for SACD/DVD-A anyway. Hm, I was under the impression that there's NO solution for real 5.1 output... go figure.


 
Are you saying that all audio is encoded into discrete 5.1 channels when sent to analog output, but not SPDIF? If that's the case then I'd just buy a receiver with 6 channel analog input (sorry, "5.1" channel, that's all "DVD-Audio" input really is). If I was going to buy a HT receiver I'd want that for SACD/DVD-A anyway. Hm, I was under the impression that there's NO solution for real 5.1 output... go figure.
Click to expand...
This is fine if you're buying a new receiver, and you only have one device that needs analog 5.1.

If you have 2 devices (DVD plus PC), many receivers only have one set of analog 5.1 inputs. If you have an older receiver it might have no 5.1 analog at all.

It's also more convenient to just use one digital cable instead of 3 analog cable, plus the digital too (if you want to send DVD digital to the receiver for decoding).
 
Originally posted by: apoppin
Originally posted by: Megatomic
Originally posted by: apoppin
it will . . .. for sure.


better now?
:roll:
Click to expand...
Yeah, I feel tremendous relief now. :roll:
Click to expand...
always glad to be of service . . . . reasurrance (and rumour) are my middle names. 😛
:roll:
Click to expand...

You only have 1 name so how can you have a middle one? ;roll;
 
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