To Razer Blackwidow owners

[Axonn]

I just got a Logitech G510 and I'm about to puke. I have 2 G15s, one of them is failing and I thought, hey, let's get the G510. It's horrible. They practically took the G15 and destroyed everything that was cool about it: media keys, volume wheel turned into a shitty ultra-sensitive crap, cheap finish, idiotic palmrest which is almost as high as the damn keyboard and other things, don't even get me started. Except multi-colored lighting which is bullshit anyway, this keyboard is a mockery. I'm surprised they ask money for it! I hate this keyboard and I'm going to sell it as soon as possible. Maybe somebody would put up with this crap if they come from using a typewriter.

As an alternative, I was looking at the Blackwidow. Apparently it's "mechanical" so I guess the buttons would have a longer lifetime???

My question to you owners is this: can your keyboard's software separate the profiles PER APPLICATION??? The G15/510 software will automatically switch the profile depending upon what program (executable) I'm switching the focus to. Then, I have 3 x 15 button per application (because they keyboard has M1, M2 and M3).

I read that the Blackwidow has 10 profiles. So that's it? Or are the 10 profiles pretty much as the G15's three M keys? Cause the Razer has only 5 buttons compared to my 18. If it'd have 10 profiles, it would compensate nicely. Is it easy to switch between them?

I've watched some video reviews about the Blackwidow but I'm very unsatisfied with them. They don't cover the software well enough. They're pretty much mesmerized by the dumb lights.

 

[Cerb]

Maybe somebody would put up with this crap if they come from using a typewriter.

Actually, no. If they came from using a typewriter, they would want mechanical keys, not those oft mushy plastic domes. Cherry blacks feel this || close to an IBM Selectric II, though the Selectric has a slight rebound upon bottoming out, and its keys can all wobble a little.

As an alternative, I was looking at the Blackwidow. Apparently it's "mechanical" so I guess the buttons would have a longer lifetime???

Maybe, maybe not. Mechanical keys have a different feel to them, and that is their primary draw. Also, some sturdy ones could be used as bludgeoning weapons, when the zombie apocalypse comes . if you get a mechanical keybaord and like it, there will be no turning back. Some people, though, be warned, don't find them to be all that special. I'm personally not convinced that any mechanical key design except for buckling spring will outlast a well-made rubber dome keyboard (millennium-era Keytronics, FI). OTOH, Cherry MX keys are replaceable, should one break.

 

[vbuggy]

All but the Stealth don't make any sense for gaming or anyone but professional typists, whatever the ubernerds at geekhack say. And even the Stealth is debatably Stealthy since it's a Cherry Brown, which is one of the quieter switches in Cherry's lineup, but saying it's quiet is like saying standing next to a 747's engine is quiet compared to standing next to an F-18's on full afterburner. Also the gaming key feel of any of Cherry's action is is highly debatable.

But specifically in relation to the blues, why would you want an additional, really positive bump before key actuation in a gaming keyboard?

I agree Logitech's keyboards suck though. The G-series wear really badly and they aren't that hot to start with. The only decent standout keyboard they make are in the scissor-action range IMO.

I'd look into a short-throw rubber dome keyboard like Microsoft's Sidewinder range, or if you have to go mechanical, consider one with red switches like the recently introduced Corsair.

 

[Axonn]

Cerb: I'm not desperate about mechanical keys but according to what Razer seems to brag, they're easier to press. Maybe they're lying. It's been ages since I've typed mechanical and I'm sure that it wasn't a quality keyboard.

vbuggy: Wow. I've been looking for 1 hour at videos about the Sidewinder X6. It's awesome! Thank you very much for that advice!!! I owe you one. I think I'm going to buy it.

Still, the question remains:

Does Razer Blackwindow support per-application profiles, just like Logitech's junk?

 

[vbuggy]

Cerb: I'm not desperate about mechanical keys but according to what Razer seems to brag, they're easier to press. Maybe they're lying. It's been ages since I've typed mechanical and I'm sure that it wasn't a quality keyboard.

vbuggy: Wow. I've been looking for 1 hour at videos about the Sidewinder X6. It's awesome! Thank you very much for that advice!!! I owe you one. I think I'm going to buy it.

Still, the question remains:

Does Razer Blackwindow support per-application profiles, just like Logitech's junk?

The X6 is great especially for the swappable keypad which you can use as a left-hand macro center, but the X4 does 'more-fingers-than-you-have' NRKO. The X6 is 6KRO except for Ctrl+R combos (when it becomes 2KRO).

 

[Pia]

Can't you do per-application profiles with Autohotkey? It's been fine for me. I use mechanical boards that do not have any drivers/macro functions of their own (both Filco and Leopold/Topre).

Leopold tenkeyless (from Elitekeyboards) is what I'd recommend for almost anyone - good price/performance. Microsoft Sidewinder X4 looks good if you want to get by cheaper-than-mechanical.

 

[Axonn]

AutoHotKey is nice but doesn't add buttons on your keyboard, most of the time forces you to press combinations, which I don't want to. Nothing beats a good ol' extra button ::- ).

vbuggy: what's NRKO? I suppose it's about anti-ghosting? Why would CTRL + R be so different? If your "6KRO" means 6 keys at once, then it means that Microsoft's keyboard is as "antighosted" as Razer's? Surprising. Because Razer keeps bragging that their Blackwindow has antighosting up to 6 keys as far as I remember, and they're bragging almost like they're the only ones in the world that have it.

 

[natto fire]

I have both keyboards but am using the G510 at the moment. I got the Blackwidow first and loved it. I lived in New Mexico in a "rough" structure and have yet to figure out how to clean the harsh desert dust out of the switches, I would guess a quarter of the keys stick. So I have since bought the G510 when I moved back to Ohio.

Overall I like the features of the G510 better, especially on the fly macro recording, although the gaming panel is a gimmick. Definitely prefer the tactile feel of mechanical switches though.

 

[Axonn]

Wow, an owner of both keyboards! Cool ::- D. My G510 has slight problems with the space and shift keys as well. They sometimes don't make proper contact, and I'm an above-average typist (400 WPM). This is perhaps a manufacturing problem, but I can't RMA it since I asked a friend to bring this G510 over from Canada because the idiots at Logitech don't sell small-enter models in Europe, they only sell European layout which sucks ass. Although the picture on all keyboard boxes features the American layout. Idiots!

Anyway, I actually love the gaming panel because of the Media Display which I use for Winamp. But other than this, I admit it would be completely useless, though I do appreciate the ability to code custom stuff for it.

 

[Pia]

vbuggy: what's NRKO? I suppose it's about anti-ghosting? Why would CTRL + R be so different? If your "6KRO" means 6 keys at once, then it means that Microsoft's keyboard is as "antighosted" as Razer's?

Both keyboards are only capable of registering a combination of two arbitrary keys; that defines them as 2KRO, the same as every cheapo keyboard ever. So in that strict sense, they are equally "antighosted".

The difference is that Microsoft was apparently going for a NKRO design, and only a slight design mistake makes the X6 technically 2KRO. The later X4 design axes the mistake and is the cheapest NKRO board on the market. Razer, on the other hand, deliberately designs their boards as 2KRO to shave a few cents off the production cost. Their BlackWidow marketing is complete and utter bullshit, especially the "anti-ghosting" part.

(Note: USB keyboards always have some key rollover limit due to the interface - usually 6KRO - so none of them are NKRO in a strict sense. However, we use NKRO as a shorthand for "6KRO or better". That is not an arbitrary number, as keyboards tend to fall into either the 2KRO or 6+KRO camps with no in-betweens. Going over 6KRO makes no practical difference unless you are playing local multiplayer with several people on the same keyboard, playing a rhythm game with >6 simultaneous tracks, or something along those lines.)

 

[vbuggy]

AutoHotKey is nice but doesn't add buttons on your keyboard, most of the time forces you to press combinations, which I don't want to. Nothing beats a good ol' extra button ::- ).

vbuggy: what's NRKO? I suppose it's about anti-ghosting? Why would CTRL + R be so different? If your "6KRO" means 6 keys at once, then it means that Microsoft's keyboard is as "antighosted" as Razer's? Surprising. Because Razer keeps bragging that their Blackwindow has antighosting up to 6 keys as far as I remember, and they're bragging almost like they're the only ones in the world that have it.

The Sidewinder X6 is 6 Key Roll Over (yes, anti-ghosting) *except* for Ctrl+R, which for some reason locks out all other keys. So purely in that combination it is 2 Key Roll Over. This is some kind of design oversight presumably.

The X4 is about 17KRO. It has no peers, even among mechanicals since they do at best 6KRO (and through some hubs many mechanicals have occasional issues doing 6KRO properly).

In the case of some mechanical keyboards, if you use the PS/2 connector on your PC *motherboard* (not via USB adapters) - if you have it - you can get KRO similar to, or better than, the X4.

Practically speaking though, 6KRO is fine.

I have more Filco's, Noppoo's, Topres etc (and one solitary Black Widow Ultimate) than you can shake a... well, Leopold at, and I personally prefer using the X6 as my main keyboard on my main gaming rig. I think like a lot of other things, the more people spend in relation to their disposable income on something cool and different, the more they need to justify its purchase, and while looking at gushing reviews on mechanicals I get the feeling that $100~300 on a keyboard is a lot for some people to spend.

I don't really have that need. I think you should give at least the blue-switch-based keyboard a try just to get the feel of something different, but I don't feel it's always necessarily superior - especially for gaming.

 

[Axonn]

Pia & vbuggy thanks for clarifying me on everything! After all, I found an older-but-unused first generation G15 at a friend and will get that. No other keyboard for now. No options satisfy me. Razer has no volume wheel, and neither Razer nor Microsoft have any kind of LCD on their keyboards, which I like because of the media display. Too bad Logitech decided to suck and make fun of us users of their products with the G510. It's more expensive than G15 and definitely the quality is poorer.

 

[vbuggy]

Pia & vbuggy thanks for clarifying me on everything! After all, I found an older-but-unused first generation G15 at a friend and will get that. No other keyboard for now. No options satisfy me. Razer has no volume wheel, and neither Razer nor Microsoft have any kind of LCD on their keyboards, which I like because of the media display. Too bad Logitech decided to suck and make fun of us users of their products with the G510. It's more expensive than G15 and definitely the quality is poorer.

The G15 is a POS in comparison to the Sidewinders. Suffers premature binding really quickly, clattery keys, etc. But good luck with your hunt.

 

[Axonn]

Premature binding? As far as I'm concerned, the original G15 rocks, never had any complaints with it. As for the noise of the keys, yes, that is indeed a problem, but only a minor one.

 

[R4in]

clattery keys

Some people enjoy the "clack clack clack" when they type. I personally do not but I know peeps that do.

 

[vbuggy]

Premature binding? As far as I'm concerned, the original G15 rocks, never had any complaints with it. As for the noise of the keys, yes, that is indeed a problem, but only a minor one.

Yeah - the original and newer G15's to me had serious problems with wear & tear affecting travel consistency.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Until you guys try a well made mechanical keyboard with Cherry MX keys you cannot sit there and tell everyone they are worth nothing. The experience of using them is so far beyond rubber domes which feel like utter mush it's ridiculous. To say Cherry keys suck for gaming is laughable because the very best gamers in the world use Cherry MX keys. Not everyone likes Blacks for typing, but it's well established the world over that they dominate rubber domes for pretty much any type of gaming.

Mechanical doesn't mean loud click either. MX Brown are not very loud, Black and Red are super quiet too. The lot of you posting in this thread seem like you are highly uninformed and looked at the prices of mechanical keyboards and said "they suck" without delving into the specifics at all.

Once you go mechanical, you'll never go back.

also: anyone saying you can't get more than 6kro with a mechanical obviously has no experience with them. You are supposed to use PS/2 and get nkro. Also Noppoo has keyboard that does nkro over USB.

 

[vbuggy]

A small selection. Main gaming keyboard is the one with red backlight.

See, if the price of these wasn't a big deal to you and you didn't feel the need to justify the purchase, you might look at the actual merits of the products in a far colder light.

I do use the Topres in terms of typing-heavy machines. The Filco's, Noppoos and definitely the Black Widow - I can take or leave, although a decent Blue has a sort of pleasurable toy-like feeling about it. For playing games though or any similar use, probably the worst choice of any type of keyboard. Browns and reds are more suitable, but I still prefer the response and feedback of a decent rubber-dome, which are also general-purpose friendlier to boot.