To go athlon 64 or not...

[imported_DaveA]

My current setup:

amd xp 2700+
1gig pc2700 ram
120gb hard drive 7200rpm
audigy 2
9800 PRO @ 9800 XT Speeds (is about to be heavily overclocked when I get my new cooler in a few days)


Im noticing in many games that my fps takes a dive even when I dont have AA/AF on and playing at 1024x768. Im thinking its my CPU. Would upgrading to a AMD 64 3200+ Venice keep my FPS at a constant rate? I wont be upgrading the video card straight away btw as I have limited funds.

 

[krcat1]

Wouldn't upgrading the PCU entail upgrading the MB? I thought the xp 2700+ is socket A.

A Venice/MB upgrade runs about $375. At that price, you could get a new video card.
Most people seem to believe that the Video card is more of a bottle-neck than the CPU.

Have you considered OCing the CPU with the 9800PRO?
I have read that the 2500+ is a good OCer. Perhaps you could get some more out of the 2700+.

 

[imported_DaveA]

Originally posted by: krcat1
Wouldn't upgrading the PCU entail upgrading the MB? I thought the xp 2700+ is socket A.

A Venice/MB upgrade runs about $375. At that price, you could get a new video card.
Most people seem to believe that the Video card is more of a bottle-neck than the CPU.

Have you considered OCing the CPU with the 9800PRO?
I have read that the 2500+ is a good OCer. Perhaps you could get some more out of the 2700+.

i believe that no matter what video card you have (even 6800 Ultra's in SLI) your still going to have dips in fps in situations where the cpu is under heavy stress (like in UT2k4). The 2700+ can only go to 2.28GHZ at 175FSB x 13. This is due to me only having pc2700 RAM. I wonder if a RAM upgrade would be better so I could get to AMD XP 3200+ speeds even though I would still only have 256kb of L2 cache. hmmm....

 

[dguy6789]

I would go for an Athlon 64 setup. Your gaming performance would go up a bit, and your general pc usage will be noticably faster and smoother.

 

[biostud]

I have pretty much the same setup, and if you want to feel a true improvement in speed you need to go A64, it would be a waste to buy anything for socket A.

 

[selfbuilt]

Originally posted by: DaveA
[i believe that no matter what video card you have (even 6800 Ultra's in SLI) your still going to have dips in fps in situations where the cpu is under heavy stress (like in UT2k4). The 2700+ can only go to 2.28GHZ at 175FSB x 13. This is due to me only having pc2700 RAM. I wonder if a RAM upgrade would be better so I could get to AMD XP 3200+ speeds even though I would still only have 256kb of L2 cache. hmmm....

An AXP @2.28Ghz isn't too bad ... frankly, for the cost of a new CPU/mobo/RAM, I think you'd be better off with a new GPU (e.g. X800XL), if funds are tight and gaming is most important to you. I don't find my A64 @2.34Ghz noticeably faster than my AXP @2.45Ghz in general taks (despite what synthetic mem benchies say!), and only 5-15% faster on average fps with my 9800pro at xt speeds. Maybe min fps have gone up, but I'm thinking I should have upgraded the GPU instead for the cost.

 

[imported_DaveA]

Originally posted by: selfbuilt

Originally posted by: DaveA
[i believe that no matter what video card you have (even 6800 Ultra's in SLI) your still going to have dips in fps in situations where the cpu is under heavy stress (like in UT2k4). The 2700+ can only go to 2.28GHZ at 175FSB x 13. This is due to me only having pc2700 RAM. I wonder if a RAM upgrade would be better so I could get to AMD XP 3200+ speeds even though I would still only have 256kb of L2 cache. hmmm....

An AXP @2.28Ghz isn't too bad ... frankly, for the cost of a new CPU/mobo/RAM, I think you'd be better off with a new GPU (e.g. X800XL), if funds are tight and gaming is most important to you. I don't find my A64 @2.34Ghz noticeably faster than my AXP @2.45Ghz in general taks (despite what synthetic mem benchies say!), and only 5-15% faster on average fps with my 9800pro at xt speeds. Maybe min fps have gone up, but I'm thinking I should have upgraded the GPU instead for the cost.

hmm interesting, anyone else got any personal experiences with this?

 

[ty1er]

maybe this might be helpfull for you DaveA.

Here is a copyclip from an older post for me when i upgraded from a 2600xp to a 320064.

I just figured that i would post my quick little benchmark of Doom3 from my previous system to my current system setup.

Maybe it can help some of you guys out there that are thinking about upgrading to/from an simlar system.


On both systems I used the Retail 1.0 version of Doom3 /timedemo demo1
I ran each test three times taking the average from the last two results.
Everything is running stock, no OCing on anything.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

AMD XP System

AMD 2600+ XP (266fsb)
1024mb PC2100 DDR
eVGA Geforce 6800GT (6.14.10.6693)
WindowsXPsp2

Ultra Quality No AA_____46.3fps
High Quality No AA_____46.9fps
Medium Quality No AA__46.9fps

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


AMD 64 System

AMD 3200+ 64 (400fsb)
1024mb PC3200 DC DDR
eVGA Geforce 6800GT (6.14.10.6693)
WindowsXPsp2

Ultra Quality No AA_____82.5fps (78.2% increase!)
High Quality No AA_____86.3fps (84.0% increase!)
Medium Quality No AA__86.2fps (83.8% increase!)

High Quality AA 4x_____82.1fps (i didnt run any tests on my XP with AA on.)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I figured that the numbers would increase a little, but i am Very happy with these results!



I hope that this is useful to someone
-ty1er

 

[render]

Yes, go for A64.

I used to have XP 2400+ and upgraded to A64 3000 o/ced at 2.5ghz.

It's much faster. I never look back.

Edit: get a used MSI NEO2 from for sale. You can get it less than $100.

 

[11427]

I agree with selfbuilt,.... My A64 @ 2.4 is NOT noticeably faster than my AXP @ 2.2 and it is not much faster in benchmarks, in fact I really can't tell the difference between them.
If you are budget minded I'd try some good PC3200 (this can be moved to an A64 rig later) and see if you can get that OC up a little higher. Second I'd look at a better video card. But,... if you get a new video card you will not be able to move it to an A64 unless you go with an nForce3. Of course I have heard rumors of nForce4 AGP boards coming out.
Third, just upgrade the whole she-bang ;-)

 

[sangyup81]

overclock the athlon xp

bring the fsb up as far as your memory will allow

 

[imported_DaveA]

tyler that was extremely helpful. It still looks like a mixed bag though. half of you say upgrade, the other say there wont be a difference.

 

[selfbuilt]

Originally posted by: DaveA
tyler that was extremely helpful. It still looks like a mixed bag though. half of you say upgrade, the other say there wont be a difference.

Yeah, but you aren't running a super-high-end card 6800GT on a lower (266mhz) platform - ty1er's system was clearly CPU-limited. You are probably more GPU-limited on your halfway decent AXP system, although I agree with 11427 that better mem would be a good idea, to see if you can hit 200mhz or higher (and you could use it on an eventual A64 system). The question is what is the best upgrade for you at the moment - if you shell out for a whole new CPU/mem/mobo, I think you will be kicking yourself to be stuck with the 9800pro.

 

[DarkKnight]

get a new video card, I upgraded from a radeon 9800 to a geforce6800NU and got a pretty nice boost in all my games, my cpu is similar to urs so you will probably see a benefit too

 

[Gogar]

I'd definitely go for socket 939, get a DFI Ultra-D and a Venice 3200+ (or a 3000+), keep your old ram for now and see how it goes. (shouldn't be much slower than with PC3200)
Then decide if you want to upgrade your ram as well, maybe wait with the ram and get it along with a dual-core Athlon64 when they become available/cheaper. If you plan to upgrade to the X2 soon i'd just get a 3000+ now.

edit: Oh wait, you have an AGP card right? In that case i'd get the MSI K8N Neo2.

Neo2: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813130468
$132.00

3200+: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819103535
$204.99

3000+: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819103537
$159.00

And ofcourse OC the hell out of it 😀

 

[Duvie]

You could always get a sckt 754 system and a newcastle in the rangeof 3000+ (2.0ghz) with a stick of memory for cheaper then what has been suggested up above....

Can get cpu/mobo/fan for 160-180 range and get get a 1gb of Gskill memory for around 100 bucks....What s the upgrade to the expensive vid card cost you when you figure how little you will get out of the 9800pro???

Get a higher end card and you wont solve the bottlnecks related to cpu and I dont think the 9800 at XT speeds is really that bottlenecked now at the res you run....At least it shouldn't be...

 

[imported_DaveA]

Originally posted by: Duvie
You could always get a sckt 754 system and a newcastle in the rangeof 3000+ (2.0ghz) with a stick of memory for cheaper then what has been suggested up above....

Can get cpu/mobo/fan for 160-180 range and get get a 1gb of Gskill memory for around 100 bucks....What s the upgrade to the expensive vid card cost you when you figure how little you will get out of the 9800pro???

Get a higher end card and you wont solve the bottlnecks related to cpu and I dont think the 9800 at XT speeds is really that bottlenecked now at the res you run....At least it shouldn't be...

i try and run 1280x1024 with 2xaa 4xaf.

 

[imported_DaveA]

Originally posted by: selfbuilt

Originally posted by: DaveA
tyler that was extremely helpful. It still looks like a mixed bag though. half of you say upgrade, the other say there wont be a difference.

Yeah, but you aren't running a super-high-end card 6800GT on a lower (266mhz) platform - ty1er's system was clearly CPU-limited. You are probably more GPU-limited on your halfway decent AXP system, although I agree with 11427 that better mem would be a good idea, to see if you can hit 200mhz or higher (and you could use it on an eventual A64 system). The question is what is the best upgrade for you at the moment - if you shell out for a whole new CPU/mem/mobo, I think you will be kicking yourself to be stuck with the 9800pro.

whoops didnt see the 266mhz fsb on his system. i think i might go grab a 6800 GT and see how that goes, if i still get dips in fps i can then grab a amd 64. i think a new video card would be better and would show more in games than a new cpu.

 

[selfbuilt]

Originally posted by: DaveA
whoops didnt see the 266mhz fsb on his system. i think i might go grab a 6800 GT and see how that goes, if i still get dips in fps i can then grab a amd 64. i think a new video card would be better and would show more in games than a new cpu.

I think that's a good idea. As a last point, Tom's interactive CPU chart (using a 6800GT) shows a ~25% increase in average fps with Doom3 and UT2004 when going from an AXP3200+ to a A643200+. But when I made a similar switch with my 9800pro/xt (whose absolute scores are less than half that of a 6800GT!), I only saw 5% & 15% respectively - barely noticeable. Clearly, the 9800pro/xt is GPU limited on those games.

 

[Turkey22]

Usually dips in games are cpu related, although I've seen it with texture size too (gpu). Going from a 2700+ you'd probably have to hit at least 3400 or 3500 to see a solid difference. Then again 9800 pro to 6800 GT I would think would be similar performance gain.
I would try it at 800x600 until prices come down a bit more. I still get by with my 2000+ and my 9800 pro with no serious problems. I would wait and then upgrade processor.

 

[TGS]

I went from a 2500xp to a 3000+ A64, and the performance gains were very noticable. I averaged on a 9700 pro, around 20-30fps @ 800x600. Moving to the 3000+ A64 netting around 30-40 @ 1024x768. I then moved to a 6800GT after I had had a bios problem that fried my 9700, and again the performance there seemed to scale much better than on the XP platform.

Abit AV8, good overclocker, agp, socket 939, fairly inexpensive.

Running around 250 for a 3000+ winchester and AV8, or 300 for a x800 XL, if you are looking for a Graphics bump.

At least you won't be CPU bound in your games so the FPS at your sweet spot resolution shouldn't be slammed with too much action going on. Granted there is a middle ground to work with if you have a limited budget, I would recommend the bump on the CPU side first.

If you have the money, head down to a local dealer to buy a recent generation video card. If you toss it in and the performance isn't what you want, take it back for the mobo/cpu. I can almost guarantee you will seem more results buying into an A64 platform. The dividers are also another plus to A64. You can run dividers and Overclock your memory a little bit and the performance hit is nowhere like it is with XPs. Therefore being able to push your CPU to the max, and becoming graphics bound. As you can always lower your resolution, but you cannot always run your CPU at a higher frequency.

 

[shock311]

get an athlon64 2800+ and DFI board OC to 2.4 like I have done. Keep the rest til G70 or r520 come out and upgrade the vid card hopefully if they introduce an AGP version.

 

[imported_DaveA]

Originally posted by: shock311
get an athlon64 2800+ and DFI board OC to 2.4 like I have done. Keep the rest til G70 or r520 come out and upgrade the vid card hopefully if they introduce an AGP version.

im thinking that might be best. although i would grab a 939 setup.