Question To Be Or Not To Be involved in FB sprints

[Orange Kid]

Ok, so I guess I am the one to blame for dragging us down the FB sprint rabbit hole..........

So I have put up a pole to see if we would like to continue playing or not. It has a 7 day time limit.

There are other challenges out there to participate in. WCG has challenges from time to time as well as PG and the Pentathalon. I am sure more can be found if we look.

Votes and thoughts are welcome.

 

[Icecold]

Again, I think we need to look forward not back, I want to save the FB if it isn't dead already. No more excuses or defending the undefendable.
Let's work together to move forward.

That is the only reason i am still posting..
Steve

For what it's worth, the first sprint had really good participation, across the board. It was close between a ton of teams in League 1, and League 2 as well. Assuming the Formula BOINC forum doesn't stay down forever, it seems like FB could be salvaged at this point with some meaningful positive changes, which you and the other remaining members of the sprint committee seem intent on doing. A lot of various team forums were pretty active talking about Formula BOINC this year even teams that haven't taken part much in recent years.

I definitely respect that you were willing to just be totally blunt and honest about where everything stands!

 

[SystemVipers]

OK, I will start looking forward, I will write down a few suggestion,
if the FB moves forward maybe we can all agree to a gentlemen's set of rules,
My only problem with that is this a small portion of the whole group here but if we can agree on some ground rules then maybe we can start a trend and get everyone on board.

I want to stop the drama and come together looking forward, learn from the past but lean into the future.

I don't think i know everything so what i write here is just some forward looking idea's but it would be interesting to hear everyone's opinions.

1. Bunkering is allowed BUT most of us know of the "ncpu" change or the boincmgr hack, it's not allowed. No 100 cpu machines that are only 26...
Keep it what you got. Then everyone is dependent on their own Skillz and Hardware not software or config cheats.
2. No team switching, easy to follow.
3. It would be nice if the sprint started when the event project was announced. Plus no one knows the project, that was being implemented when FB was closed.
4. Not to have so many sprints, it's too many to me. I need at least 2 weeks to baby my rigs, crunch my fav projects and handle my life. Maybe even 1 sprint a month?
5. If you don't own them then don't run them, I have heard of teams that work for universities or large corps that have used those machines in the past. No drama here, just a observation and nothing was ever REALLY FACTS.
Not sure on this but figured I would put it in the mix, use your own hardware....
6. Don't look at what was done to start drama it tears us apart. Plus come up with a way of reporting a suspect team or individual to a secondary group of stats guys for further analysis, so it doesn't' create drama on the board. Keep the board fun and exciting or we'll never draw any new members.

OK that is my start to forward thinking, I think the FB has to change, now some of you would say, well let's just run the other project events and drop out of the FB. I love the 3 day sprint and the Marathon. I just have some suggestions on Looking Forward.

P.S. I lost my first friend (not at XS) for speaking my mind. It's just sad.

But I knew that when i supported F in here and spoke my POV it was going to ruffle some feathers.
I am passionate about the FB so I just have to be my button mashing speak truth to powa, hothead kinda guy..
Any i will still try to recruit Solo Miners

Thanks for listening, this is just some thoughts.
Steve

 

[SystemVipers]

time to go deal with reality, I'll check back in tonight.
Again sorry to TaaT for using this forum for my comments..

Have a great day
Steve

 

[Markfw]

OK, I will start looking forward, I will write down a few suggestion,
if the FB moves forward maybe we can all agree to a gentlemen's set of rules,
My only problem with that is this a small portion of the whole group here but if we can agree on some ground rules then maybe we can start a trend and get everyone on board.

I want to stop the drama and come together looking forward, learn from the past but lean into the future.

I don't think i know everything so what i write here is just some forward looking idea's but it would be interesting to hear everyone's opinions.

1. Bunkering is allowed BUT most of us know of the "ncpu" change or the boincmgr hack, it's not allowed. No 100 cpu machines that are only 26...
Keep it what you got. Then everyone is dependent on their own Skillz and Hardware not software or config cheats.
2. No team switching, easy to follow.
3. It would be nice if the sprint started when the event project was announced. Plus no one knows the project, that was being implemented when FB was closed.
4. Not to have so many sprints, it's too many to me. I need at least 2 weeks to baby my rigs, crunch my fav projects and handle my life. Maybe even 1 sprint a month?
5. If you don't own them then don't run them, I have heard of teams that work for universities or large corps that have used those machines in the past. No drama here, just a observation and nothing was ever REALLY FACTS.
Not sure on this but figured I would put it in the mix, use your own hardware....
6. Don't look at what was done to start drama it tears us apart. Plus come up with a way of reporting a suspect team or individual to a secondary group of stats guys for further analysis, so it doesn't' create drama on the board. Keep the board fun and exciting or we'll never draw any new members.

OK that is my start to forward thinking, I think the FB has to change, now some of you would say, well let's just run the other project events and drop out of the FB. I love the 3 day sprint and the Marathon. I just have some suggestions on Looking Forward.

P.S. I lost my first friend (not at XS) for speaking my mind. It's just sad.

But I knew that when i supported F in here and spoke my POV it was going to ruffle some feathers.
I am passionate about the FB so I just have to be my button mashing speak truth to powa, hothead kinda guy..
Any i will still try to recruit Solo Miners

Thanks for listening, this is just some thoughts.
Steve

I agree 100% with this. The only caveat is that on number 5. You CAN run a rented CPU(the cloud lpars or whatever they are called), but you are paying for it. So its "what you own or what you rent", NOT someone else's that you are borrowing. Number 3. I like having a few days to setup/bunker, but like 5 days notice, not 10 or more.

BTW, Notice that I do have over 1000 cpu cores (including SMT), and they are all in my house. Not sure about megacruncher. My electric bill is $800 a month, and his list is twice mine, I doubt he owns all of those. I have posted pictures many times. The 6 EPYC boxes help a lot, 4 of them with 64/128 cores.

 

[scole]

I agree 100% with this. The only caveat is that on number 5. You CAN run a rented CPU(the cloud lpars or whatever they are called), but you are paying for it. So its "what you own or what you rent", NOT someone else's that you are borrowing. Number 3. I like having a few days to setup/bunker, but like 5 days notice, not 10 or more.

BTW, Notice that I do have over 1000 cpu's (including SMT), and they are all in my house. Not sure about megacruncher. My electric bill is $800 a month, and his list is twice mine, I doubt he owns all of those. I have posted pictures many times. The 6 EPYC boxes help a lot, 4 of them with 64/128 cores.

davidBAM rents systems which he owns to teammates and friends. It's not a data center. Just a bunch of systems he invested in and at his home, like yourself. Megacruncher has been renting a bunch of those lately. So have many others.

 

[Skillz]

lol Mark you have over 1000 logical cpu cores. Not 1000 CPUs. I get what you're saying though.

If you had 1000 CPUs then you'd be somewhere in the top 500 super computers of the world.

 

[Markfw]

davidBAM rents systems which he owns to teammates and friends. It's not a data center. Just a bunch of systems he invested in and at his home, like yourself. Megacruncher has been renting a bunch of those lately. So have many others.

You expect me to believe that megacruncher has 57 BOXES most with 32 cores or more (a lot of 2990wx) in his house ? I have 17 boxes and it completely uses 100 AMPS @220 volts. Am I to believe that megacruncher has almost 4 times the number of boxes with video cards ? I don't know of anybody that has a 400 amp 220v circuit in a house.

Sorry, I don't believe you based on facts.

Not to mention the first 4 on his list have 4000 processors each ? And they are 1950x's ? Just his processor list is a cheat (must be the ncpu thing)

Edit: Actually, his list has a LOT of 4000 processors, and 200s using Xeons, and 2990wx and 1950x... It goes on. He is cheating in every possible way.

It was posted earlier, but look at this:

https://imgur.com/IR3kghm

 

[Icecold]

@Markfw correct me if I'm wrong but were you referring to how long his hosts list was? If so, a lot of those were extra BOINC instances, so it reports the same physical machine more than once. That will show like that if you're using multiple instances whether for bunkering, or controlling resource usage across multiple instances, etc.

If you look at the machines a lot are identical specs, so they're just extra instances on the same machine.

 

[Icecold]

@scole how much to rent DavidBAM's machines? I have a special project I'm working on in early May(something like 5/5 to 5/19) I could use some extra CPU cores and GPU's for.

 

[Markfw]

@Markfw correct me if I'm wrong but were you referring to how long his hosts list was? If so, a lot of those were extra BOINC instances, so it reports the same physical machine more than once. That will show like that if you're using multiple instances whether for bunkering, or controlling resource usage across multiple instances, etc.

If you look at the machines a lot are identical specs, so they're just extra instances on the same machine.

Well, I did count at least 17 different AVG Credit values, so at least 17 boxes, same as me, but the Xeons are NOT efficient, neither is the 2990wx, and he has a lot of those, all with video cards. I still doubt he has them all in the same house. I only has 2 2990wx's. Most of my power is in the EPYC boxes, as they only take 200 watts each (Rome). And I only have 14 video cards, that jacks the power up more than CPU's. 250 watts each ! And I only have 6 ore those. Most are the efficient 2060's. I have shown photos of my entire farm, lets see his !

And these were his, not ones he "rented out". If he has even more, I doubt it more.

 

[scole]

@scole how much to rent DavidBAM's machines? I have a special project I'm working on in early May(something like 5/5 to 5/19) I could use some extra CPU cores and GPU's for.

For you, free but May is a busy month so he might suspend rentals for a period .

 

[Skillz]

I'd like to get on that list for May as well. Got some important scientific research I gotta do around the beginning - mid part of the month.

 

[Icecold]

As far as some of the suggestions, I'll weigh in with some thoughts in bold-


1. Bunkering is allowed BUT most of us know of the "ncpu" change or the boincmgr hack, it's not allowed. No 100 cpu machines that are only 26...
Keep it what you got. Then everyone is dependent on their own Skillz and Hardware not software or config cheats. -I don't necessarily have an issue with people doing this, but I would be on board with it not being allowed. Bunkering is a pain anyways, so if it can be limited somewhat that would make everybody's lives a bit easier
2. No team switching, easy to follow. -Agree with this
3. It would be nice if the sprint started when the event project was announced. Plus no one knows the project, that was being implemented when FB was closed. -I would tend to agree, but maybe it could make sense to give like a 6 or 12 hour notice instead of 24? Enough time so people can switch their machines over, account for time zone differences, etc. but not cause excess tasks bunkered and dumping as the contest starts causing excess server load.
4. Not to have so many sprints, it's too many to me. I need at least 2 weeks to baby my rigs, crunch my fav projects and handle my life. Maybe even 1 sprint a month? -I definitely agree with this. The concept of following Formula 1 races is cool, but when they're one after the other(especially if trying to speculative bunker, upgrade hardware, etc.) it's a pretty brutal schedule if trying to be competitive.
5. If you don't own them then don't run them, I have heard of teams that work for universities or large corps that have used those machines in the past. No drama here, just a observation and nothing was ever REALLY FACTS.
Not sure on this but figured I would put it in the mix, use your own hardware.... -I'm not 100% sure how I feel about this. It is somewhat annoying in the Primegrid challenges(non FB) for example that the top crunchers are just 'paying to play' by launching a ton of cloud instances. On the other hand, it levels the playing field somewhat for smaller teams to be able to do that. I would be fine with this being a requirement though
6. Don't look at what was done to start drama it tears us apart. Plus come up with a way of reporting a suspect team or individual to a secondary group of stats guys for further analysis, so it doesn't' create drama on the board. Keep the board fun and exciting or we'll never draw any new members. -I would agree with this. Maybe there could be a private 'Team Concerns' or something sub forum even and each team chooses 1-2 people on their team with access to that? The idea being you don't need a whole team of people piling on one way or the other, so there could be a private forum of 'team captain' type members from each team that are going to be less likely to turn it into a flame war. Just a thought.

 

[Ken g6]

1. Bunkering is allowed BUT most of us know of the "ncpu" change or the boincmgr hack, it's not allowed. No 100 cpu machines that are only 26...
Keep it what you got. Then everyone is dependent on their own Skillz and Hardware not software or config cheats.

I like to set my machines to 100 cores. That makes it easy when, say, I have 28 virtual cores, but I want to use only real cores, and I want to spare one core for a GPU, I can say "13%" for 13 cores, instead of having to calculate "13/28=46.4%, but we have to make sure to include that many cores, so let's set it to 47%".

3. It would be nice if the sprint started when the event project was announced. Plus no one knows the project, that was being implemented when FB was closed.

I agree with this. It should mostly resolve the bunkering thing, unless we do a tiny server like ODLK again. As for time zones, just mix 'em up, so everybody's disadvantaged at some point. Heck, the Pentathlon has four different times when the project can be announced, and they don't pre-announce which one will be used.

4. Not to have so many sprints, it's too many to me. I need at least 2 weeks to baby my rigs, crunch my fav projects and handle my life. Maybe even 1 sprint a month?

I'd be happy with one sprint a month not overlapping PrimeGrid challenges or the Pentathlon.

5. If you don't own them then don't run them, I have heard of teams that work for universities or large corps that have used those machines in the past. No drama here, just a observation and nothing was ever REALLY FACTS.
Not sure on this but figured I would put it in the mix, use your own hardware....

How would you enforce this? Make everybody make their CPUs public? Then what, go through each one and make sure the names are not computer-generated?

 

[lane42]

but you call it cheating if TSBT and XS do it? Really?

Read my post Moron,

I guess if there's no rule about it it's not cheating

 

[Skillz]

Then what, go through each one and make sure the names are not computer-generated?

Wait a minute. That'd mean ALL my computers fall under that rule. Since I can't be bothered to change the hostname of them. LOL
I even use Enterprise/Datacenter distros for some computers; especially the more than 2 CPU socket computers.

 

[Markfw]

Wait a minute. That'd mean ALL my computers fall under that rule. Since I can't be bothered to change the hostname of them. LOL
I even use Enterprise/Datacenter distros for some computers; especially the more than 2 CPU socket computers.

I have 17 and even I name them all uniquely.

 

[Icecold]

Are they not supposed to be all called DESKTOP-UU1KCDG, DESKTOP-UFGKHEG , etc. ?

I'm mostly kidding, most of my are named, but I just looked at my host list and there are a couple computers I never changed the host name on.

 

[Endgame124]

Wait a minute. That'd mean ALL my computers fall under that rule. Since I can't be bothered to change the hostname of them. LOL
I even use Enterprise/Datacenter distros for some computers; especially the more than 2 CPU socket computers.

I use oracle enterprise Linux 7 on a few hosts. Welcome to the club

 

[Endgame124]

I have 17 and even I name them all uniquely.

I also name all mine uniquely, and have 19 hosts (pretty sure there are 19 anyway). Yours just happen to be dramatically larger than mine

 

[scole]

Read my post Moron,

Read my response to Icecold about your post. Bartender, get this man a vinegar and water!

 

[Skillz]

Well the only thing I can take out of this is that I am lazier than most all of you. I only named three of my hosts. HTPC (as name suggests), Skillz (my main gaming rig) and NAS (where I host my files and plex) the rest are named whatever Windows gives them or whatever the default linux name for it is.

Although, since we are on the subject. Does the BOINC hosts information display the computers name/host name if you aren't the owner anyway? Pretty sure that information is hidden no matter what.

 

[UsandThem]

Leave the personal insults out of the discussions/debates/arguments.
@scole @lane42

AT Mod Usandthem

 

[Markfw]

BTW, as you can see, I am a moderator.

BUT

I don't moderate threads that I am involved in, these are moderator rules.

So listen to moderators please.

 

[Endgame124]

Well the only thing I can take out of this is that I am lazier than most all of you. I only named three of my hosts. HTPC (as name suggests), Skillz (my main gaming rig) and NAS (where I host my files and plex) the rest are named whatever Windows gives them or whatever the default linux name for it is.

Although, since we are on the subject. Does the BOINC hosts information display the computers name/host name if you aren't the owner anyway? Pretty sure that information is hidden no matter what.

Just need a theme for the names. My Raspberry Pis are named after pie. 2GB pies get 2 word names (key lime, lemon chiffon, etc). 4GB pis are named after fruit pie (strawberry, cherry, etc). 8GB pies are named after custard pies (pumpkin, pecan, etc).

Larger computers are named after Greek Gods or Greek Mythology - gaming machine is Ares, largest Water cooled PC is Poseidon, the NAS is Olympus, etc.