To AVR or to Not AVR - That is the Question

[aphex]

I now have two new battery backups and i'm not sure which to keep... Big price diff...

APC 900va (w/ AVR) - $90
APC 350va - $20

I only have three devices that need the UPS;
Mac Mini
20" Widescreen Dell LCD (2005fpw)
External 250gb FW Drive

So far, tried the 350va, the mac client dosen't give all to much info but it looks like under normal conditions i would get ~ 10 mins on backup, maybe a bit more. More than plenty for what i need, i could get by with 2-3 minutes.

The APC 900va can go for well over an hour, if not 80-90 mins on backup. WAY WAY WAY more than i need, but it has AVR.


The only thing that concerns me and makes me want AVR is my laser printer dims all the lights in the room when it first warms up (plugged into a different outlet mind you). With the 350va, the unit goes into battery backup each time the laser kicks on, havent had a chance to test if the 900va does as well.

In my case, is AVR really worth 4x the price?

 

[Seekermeister]

It would seem to me that an UPS without voltage regulation would be an oxymoron. It's primary purpose is to provide power at a constant voltage, so as to prevent data loss and possible damage to the components. I don't understand how you calculate the times being so long, unless you don't use it to it's best advantage. I have an APC BX1000, which only gives me about 25-27 minutes of power under normal load. To make it last 90 minutes, I couldn't have hardly anything plugged in. Of course, I have a CRT,rather than an LCD, which uses alot more power.

 

[RanDum72]

The AVR is worth the price, IMHO.

 

[pkme2]

Definitely, I agree too. My rigs are protected with AVR. Even if wasn't included in my UPS, I would not trust my household power to be without.
I have always used a AVR since my old computers burned out by sudden line surges a while back.

This past April, we had bad line surges like actually lightening strikes on power poles/transformers. In my neighborhood, many personal computers were burnt out. It had an effect island-wide. Costco and Office Max sold out the next few days. UPS with AVR is definitely the way to protect your system. You never know when you need one until it happens to you.

 

[MWink]

What model UPS's did you get? If you're talking about the Back-UPS ES 350, then I would take it back. The ES 350 just has too small a battery for any computer load IMO. If it's a Back-UPS CS 350 (which I doubt) it may be another story.

 

[aphex]

Originally posted by: MWink
What model UPS's did you get? If you're talking about the Back-UPS ES 350, then I would take it back. The ES 350 just has too small a battery for any computer load IMO. If it's a Back-UPS CS 350 (which I doubt) it may be another story.

Yes, its the ES350. As i mentioned earlier though, the computer is just a mac mini (simular specs to a laptop), 20" LCD, and an external hard drive. When i unplugged the ES350, and kept using the computer as normal it worked at least 10 mins (it was down to 27%, so i assume it would last a bit longer).

Anyway, thanks everyone for the responces. I'll make my decision tonight!

BTW, does anyone know of any lower wattage UPS with AVR? Maybe something splitting the difference between these two?

 

[jonnyGURU]

Originally posted by: Seekermeister
It would seem to me that an UPS without voltage regulation would be an oxymoron.

Agreed.

The battery is only going to kick in when the input power drops below a certain threshold for a predetermined amount of time. Continuous "brown outs" can damage your components over the long haul.

 

[Ike0069]

The only UPS I use that doesn't have AVR is one I've got hooked up to my DVR (which btw has been a very nice thing to have).

Both my PC's have AVR and I wouldn't want to ever go without it. Definitely go with the AVR.

 

[Rubycon]

So called AVR is not true regulation on these units but rail switching on a modified transformer with selectable buck-boost function. Truly regulated UPS units are expensive, heavy grade units.

 

[jonnyGURU]

Originally posted by: MS Dawn
So called AVR is not true regulation on these units but rail switching on a modified transformer with selectable buck-boost function. Truly regulated UPS units are expensive, heavy grade units.

Yes, but still far superior to a 90V brown out.

 

[Ike0069]

Originally posted by: jonnyGURU

Originally posted by: MS Dawn
So called AVR is not true regulation on these units but rail switching on a modified transformer with selectable buck-boost function. Truly regulated UPS units are expensive, heavy grade units.

Yes, but still far superior to a 90V brown out.

Exaclty. I had a low volatage brown out take out a PC several years ago. Smoked the PSU, MB, RAM, and modem. I was lucky enough to to have my HD's and VC saved.

It was connected to a surge protector that of course did nothing. A UPS w/AVR would have saved it everything.

 

[Navid]

Originally posted by: jonnyGURU
Continuous "brown outs" can damage your components over the long haul.

Do you ever adjust the input voltage to the PSU in your tests to see at what level its output voltage starts to be affected?
That may be another factor for comparing different PSUs: Minimum acceptable input AC line voltage.

 

[Navid]

Originally posted by: Ike0069
I had a low volatage brown out take out a PC several years ago. Smoked the PSU, MB, RAM, and modem. I was lucky enough to to have my HD's and VC saved.

It was connected to a surge protector that of course did nothing. A UPS w/AVR would have saved it everything.

Your experience proves that a surge protector does not save you against a brown out. Not much to say about a UPS!

 

[aphex]

Originally posted by: MS Dawn
So called AVR is not true regulation on these units but rail switching on a modified transformer with selectable buck-boost function. Truly regulated UPS units are expensive, heavy grade units.

Is it still better than one without AVR?

 

[jonnyGURU]

Originally posted by: Navid

Originally posted by: jonnyGURU
Continuous "brown outs" can damage your components over the long haul.

Do you ever adjust the input voltage to the PSU in your tests to see at what level its output voltage starts to be affected?
That may be another factor for comparing different PSUs: Minimum acceptable input AC line voltage.

Yeah... I could. I've got the varistat for that. Just too lazy.

 

[Navid]

Originally posted by: jonnyGURU

Originally posted by: Navid

Originally posted by: jonnyGURU
Continuous "brown outs" can damage your components over the long haul.

Do you ever adjust the input voltage to the PSU in your tests to see at what level its output voltage starts to be affected?
That may be another factor for comparing different PSUs: Minimum acceptable input AC line voltage.

Yeah... I could. I've got the varistat for that. Just too lazy.

I looked in the S12 and M12 Seasonic manuals (online). I cannot find any reference to the acceptable range for the input AC voltage! What's up with that?

 

[Operandi]

I?ve read that AVR has negative side affects, though I can?t remember exactly what they were.

Ether way with any UPS make sure you have a good PSU with APFC.

 

[Rubycon]

A poorly designed "AVR" UPS could definitely cause problems when switching rails. You get what you pay for. Would you trust the power supply that comes in a $30 ATX case? :Q

Chronic low voltage issues should be investigated. Low voltage coming into your facility will cause a plethora of issues you won't normally be aware of until equipment is damaged. Often the power supplier can change taps to provide a higher voltage to your service entrance. Regulated line conditioners and UPS' equipped with such features are not a suitable substitute for chronic power issues plant-wide! What they are designed for is to provide computer grade power in an environment where power quality may suffer due to surrounding equipment and /or delivery may experience anomalies due to weather or other unforeseen occurrences.