To all those that say the tough guard Fram oil filter is ok...

[Vette73]

I had to rebuild the entire rear suspension of my in-laws all wheel drive Rav4. So after I put all that back together I went to change the oil yesterday as it sat while I got parts and fixed the rear and also when it was started the oil light would stay on for a little bit of time instead of turning right off.

I saw it had a fram filter but was a tough guard (thats the higher end fram oil filter, not the cheaper orange one). Well I took it off expecting a good amount of oil to drop out as on the 2.0L toyota motor the filter is in the front upside down (depending on how you look at it). Well I found the problem. The oil filter was dry. Only a couple drops came out. It, like pretty much all fram filters, was not doing its job and allowing all the oil to drain out after the car was turned off. I then put on a purolator filter, advance auto parts name on it. I started it up and drove around. I let it sit and started it again and the oil light went off much faster and there was less engine noise now.

So for those that say the tough guard is not to bad... it is. It has the same problems as the regular orange fram.


CLIFFS:
Fram sucks stop wasting your money on them.

 

[LTC8K6]

If the filter is upside down, how was the oil draining out of it? Even the worst OF in the world should still be full of oil if it's mounted upside down. The oil cannot drain out of it.

It sounds like the filter was not actually upside down, and it either did not have the drainback valve or the valve was not working.

 

[JasonSix78]

Sounds like the filter was defective. The anti-drainback valve should have kept the filter full of oil when the engine was shut off.

 

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: JasonSix78
Sounds like the filter was defective. The anti-drainback valve should have kept the filter full of oil when the engine was shut off.

Yes that is the thing. This is common for fram oil filters. Poeple were/are saying the tough guard is a better filter but it still has the same problems of the cheap orange fram.


When i had my own shop 9 times out of 10 when someone complained of startup engine nosie I tyraced it back to a Fram/honeywell oil filter. It was usually on cars/trucks where the filter was placed like that on the toyota, with the opening facing down. I can remember dodges, jeeps, fords, etc... doing that.

 

[overst33r]

The noise reduction wouldn't have anything to do with fresh oil being put in the car eh?

 

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: mariok2006
The noise reduction wouldn't have anything to do with fresh oil being put in the car eh?

Same weight/brand. Only new thing, oil filter.

 

[overst33r]

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: mariok2006
The noise reduction wouldn't have anything to do with fresh oil being put in the car eh?

Same weight/brand. Only new thing, oil filter.

No, I meant the new oil will probably be the biggest factor in reducing the noise of the engine.

 

[iamwiz82]

I have had an anti-drainback valve fail on a non-Fram filter too.

 

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: mariok2006

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: mariok2006
The noise reduction wouldn't have anything to do with fresh oil being put in the car eh?

Same weight/brand. Only new thing, oil filter.

No, I meant the new oil will probably be the biggest factor in reducing the noise of the engine.

OK let me try and make it even more simple.


Oil only had about 1000miles on it. I changed it as the truck sat for 5months or so. I used the same oil/weight as before as my in-law bought a couple. The noise was there until right after the oil light would go off. Every time the truck was started the oil light would stay on for a couple seconds. I changed the oil filter and now the oil light goes off almost as soon as it turns over. Fram in known to cause engine noise esp in cars/trucks where the filter is upside down compared to most applications.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: LTC8K6
If the filter is upside down, how was the oil draining out of it? Even the worst OF in the world should still be full of oil if it's mounted upside down. The oil cannot drain out of it.

It sounds like the filter was not actually upside down, and it either did not have the drainback valve or the valve was not working.

Upside down means that the opening is pointing down. You have the orientation reversed in your mind.

ZV

 

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: iamwiz82
I have had an anti-drainback valve fail on a non-Fram filter too.

I am not saying it does not happen to others, but fram is well known for this problem and this problem still carries on in their high end Tough Guard filter that some people think is ok. The filter I replaced the premium Fram tough guard with was a $1.50 or so advance auto parts store brand filter made by purlator.

 

[LTC8K6]

"Upside down means that the opening is pointing down. You have the orientation reversed in your mind. "

No, I covered that possibility in my post. Note that the OP specified "depending on how you look at it.

 

[LTC8K6]

An anti drainback valve failure is a serious problem that Fram would want to know about and correct.

The idea that they put out such a filter on purpose is a bit silly.

Do we know if the Toyota filter has the valve?

 

[JasonSix78]

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: JasonSix78
Sounds like the filter was defective. The anti-drainback valve should have kept the filter full of oil when the engine was shut off.

Yes that is the thing. This is common for fram oil filters. Poeple were/are saying the tough guard is a better filter but it still has the same problems of the cheap orange fram.


When i had my own shop 9 times out of 10 when someone complained of startup engine nosie I tyraced it back to a Fram/honeywell oil filter. It was usually on cars/trucks where the filter was placed like that on the toyota, with the opening facing down. I can remember dodges, jeeps, fords, etc... doing that.

I see. I haven't used Fram filters in years so I wasn't aware that they had high failure rate.

 

[Vette73]

^
and
^^


Go to bob is the oil guy forums and you can see that is is a known issue with fram. They already know about it and either will not answer about it and/or deny it as a fluke. Mind you its well know by most good auto techs and people that have cars with oil filters that stand upside down.

But I also have not used fram in many years. It was only because my brother in-law used one, and a high end fram on top of that, was I able to see Fram is still the same as when I saw them on others cars during my auto tech days.

 

[LTC8K6]

I'm well aware of the nature of Fram filters and of the websites regarding same.

My point was to learn whether Toyota requires a valve on the filter for that engine, and whether the Fram filter had the valve at all, or if the valve had failed.

BTW, I recently switched from a valvoline filter on my old Z24 to a Mobil1 filter. It also stopped the lifter rattle at startup. I suspect this is also because of a drainback valve issue.

This is a car that is not driven much, and it had begun to rattle quite a bit at startup after sitting for a while.

It doesn't do that any more.

 

[child of wonder]

Strange. I've been using cheap orange Fram oil filters for almost 15 years in 5 different cars without any problems.

 

[alkemyst]

thread is just another fram basher...provide pics please.

 

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: alkemyst
thread is just another fram basher...provide pics please.

Here ya go noob...

Fram + Advance

Dry filter as it looked after coming off Toyota

 

[SonicIce]

dont forget to get a gigantic toyota logo in the pic

 

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: alkemyst
thread is just another fram basher...provide pics please.

Here ya go noob...

Fram + Advance

Dry filter as it looked after coming off Toyota

Yea that's no good. I used to use Fram, but after hearing about problems I switched to PureONE and haven't looked back.

When I changed oil in my parents cars while they were gone, I refused to use his stockpile of Fram filters and went out and bought PureONE filters.

What is the engine model on the car? 2RZ-FE?

 

[desy]

I usually get quaker state
How are those?

 

[Howard]

Top of the line Wix here when I do my own oil

 

[Vette73]

^

Quaker state shoudl still be made by purolator. They were bought out by mhale and bosch last I checked but quality was still good as of now.


^^

Yea I use the pro-tec filters for my other cars now that advance has kinda taken their filter off the shelf. Pro-tec is Wix's mass market filter. I think it is also the same filter as the Napa silver. You can get the Pro-tec for most cars at www.rockauto.com

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: alkemyst
thread is just another fram basher...provide pics please.

Here ya go noob...

Fram + Advance

Dry filter as it looked after coming off Toyota

what is that proving? Where you expecting that middle part to be full of oil?

http://home.earthlink.net/~cewhite3nc/id12.html

All companies have duds. You have simply read things and wish to do your own little part to perpetuate fodder.

There are better oil filters sure, but only fucktard get into these types of advocacy threads showing they are better off selling whatever tools they have and taking it to a pep boys.

If you have a stocker, driving normally you really don't need a high end filter.

I like the part of you rebuilding the whole back end of the RAV4 to add credibility to an oil change story. What did you have for lunch?