TNC: We don’t really have an analogue for black communities in this country. There’s

[glenn1]

They weren't raised & don't live in the same neighborhood.

Yeah, they live in a better one. Which is exactly my point.

 

[justoh]

If you think that it's "cultural" then it's either inherent or it isn't. So you either think it's environmental and explained by systemic racism and economics, or you're one of the racists and part of the problem.

 

[Cozarkian]

Patrick Sharkey has this study where he shows that the average African-American family bringing in $100,000 a year tends to live in a neighborhood that looks like the neighborhood a white family making $30,000 a year lives in. That's such a major difference.

Where the hell is that other $70,000/year going?

 

[glenn1]

If you think that it's "cultural" then it's either inherent or it isn't. So you either think it's environmental and explained by systemic racism and economics, or you're one of the racists and part of the problem.

So I guess you're another person unwilling to critically judge cultures against one another by the results they produce. We have to infantilize blacks because doing otherwise would be an admittance they had fault in producing a murderous culture.

 

[justoh]

So I guess you're another person unwilling to critically judge cultures against one another by the results they produce. We have to infantilize blacks because doing otherwise would be an admittance they had fault in producing a murderous culture.

You're right. They're just animals. It's not just in the US. I mean look at Africa. They just can't stop killing each other. Must be something in their blood.

 

[Jhhnn]

So I guess you're another person unwilling to critically judge cultures against one another by the results they produce. We have to infantilize blacks because doing otherwise would be an admittance they had fault in producing a murderous culture.

Please. Black culture is, in many ways, a product of the brutality of hundreds of years of slavery & Jim Crow. It's like abused kids growing up to be abusers themselves.

It's also a function of rentier ownership. Poor people don't own their neighborhoods in big cities- they rent them from rich people trying to squeeze the last dime out of their properties. It's only in the last 50 years that successful blacks have been able to move out of those neighborhoods in many places & even that doesn't always reflect reality.

 

[Jhhnn]

You're right. They're just animals. It's not just in the US. I mean look at Africa. They just can't stop killing each other. Must be something in their blood.

It's the mark of Cain, the religious justification for race based slavery in the first place.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Feel free to explain away any of the other examples if you don't like that one. I'm especially interested in hearing your reasoning why Native Americans have dramatically lower violence statistics than blacks. Are they just lazier, or not as skilled at killing each other?

Where I live, Native Americans have dramatically higher violence stats then blacks

 

[justoh]

It can't be stressed enough. There's no reason to think that inherent characteristics are responsible, unless you're a racist (even if you don't realize it - which you probably don't because racists are necessarily stupid).

If it's not inherent then it's environmental. It's quite simple.

There's no way that glenn1 isn't a racist. It may be unconscious. He doesn't ask why enough. Why would people act like that? Assuming we're all just people.

 

[Ackmed]

You're right. They're just animals. It's not just in the US. I mean look at Africa. They just can't stop killing each other. Must be something in their blood.

Comparing blacks in America and Africans is silly. I know you're being sarcastic, but it is not in their blood. It is how they're raised. I prefer Africans if I'm being honest overall. American black culture overall is terrible.

 

[JSt0rm]

American black culture overall is terrible.

Luckily American black culture isn't for you. Its for them.

 

[glenn1]

It can't be stressed enough. There's no reason to think that inherent characteristics are responsible, unless you're a racist (even if you don't realize it - which you probably don't because racists are necessarily stupid).

If it's not inherent then it's environmental. It's quite simple.

There's no way that glenn1 isn't a racist. It may be unconscious. He doesn't ask why enough. Why would people act like that? Assuming we're all just people.

If it's environmental and thus "not their fault" then we could likewise "program" them to not be violent. Is that a position you want to take, that blacks don't have full autonomy or agency and their actions are just a result of actions others (e.g. whites) have taken against them?

Or you can be realistic and honest and say that a shitty culture (a) isn't "inherent" from genetics or other deterministic factors, (b) wasn't imposed on passive people by an external force like whites, and (c) both originated from and is under the control of the people in that culture, including to change it, *IF* they had a desire to. And claiming victim status because "whitey made me do it" or some other means of avoiding accountability is just a sham to get gullible whites to rationalize away bad behavior.

 

[Victorian Gray]

So I guess you're another person unwilling to critically judge cultures against one another by the results they produce. We have to infantilize blacks because doing otherwise would be an admittance they had fault in producing a murderous culture.

What 'black culture' are you referring to?

Are these people part of it?

or these people?

or these people?

Is 'black culture' anything like 'white culture'?

 

[K7SN]

Ta-Nehisi Coates: “For African Americans, unfreedom is the historical norm”

Read this and discover just how far back that statement will take you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_slave_trade

Don't ask me to join this discussion; Most of the polemic posters make the last few years of congressional rhetoric look tame. They can't agree on anything either.

I do like to chortle at the posts so here is some more feul for the fire; everyone should find something to make their case.

 

[Svnla]

So which policies exactly are the direct causal factor? If we imposed a "White Jim Crow" today would it somehow spike white-on-white murder rates to the levels blacks currently murder each other at?

Darn, where is the graph/stat for Asians again?

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

What 'black culture' are you referring to?

Are these people part of it?

or these people?

or these people?

Is 'black culture' anything like 'white culture'?

Both are part of their respective cultures. Both are also minority members of those cultures. So if you're are trying to make any sort of point you seem to have failed.

Please, stop trying to make apologies. For the most part, Black culture needs to change. Many Blacks already realize that fact. So, as a white-bread liberal, stop enabling them. Things will improve faster if the white apologists like yourself stop making stupid observations.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Both are part of their respective cultures. Both are also minority members of those cultures. So if you're are trying to make any sort of point you seem to have failed.

Please, stop trying to make apologies. For the most part, Black culture needs to change. Many Blacks already realize that fact. So, as a white-bread liberal, stop enabling them. Things will improve faster if the white apologists like yourself stop making stupid observations.

Sorry, no 'apologist', white or otherwise, here. And yes, there was a point and you didn't get it. You almost did though so don't give up hope.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Sorry, no 'apologist', white or otherwise, here. And yes, there was a point and you didn't get it. You almost did though so don't give up hope.

The black guy reading this with me doesn't agree with you. He thinks you are full of shit...because I am not stating this from my own white-bread pov.

 

[Victorian Gray]

The black guy reading this with me doesn't agree with you. He thinks you are full of shit...because I am not stating this from my own white-bread pov.

Great! :thumbsup:

 

[HomerJS]

He talks about it in the article and goes into greater depth (I assume) in the Atlantic piece. White Jim Crow is nonsensical in a society largely run by white people.

If you take a random 100,000 black people and 100,000 white people where their annual income is >75,000 guarantee you those numbers aren't even close.

Now do you want to continue on your implied premise black people be their very nature are more criminal then whites.

 

[1prophet]

] Patrick Sharkey has this study where he shows that the average African-American family bringing in $100,000 a year tends to live in a neighborhood that looks like the neighborhood a white family making $30,000 a year lives in. That's such a major difference.

Sorry but no, Patrick Sharkey needs to get out more

a lot more $30,000 a year and under white communities that look like this with the drugs, hopelessness, broken families etc., that few break out of and the cycle continues.

 

[Ackmed]

Luckily American black culture isn't for you. Its for them.

You have no idea what you're speaking of, again. But please, continue to troll after me. I won't be replying to your drivel though.

 

[glenn1]

If you take a random 100,000 black people and 100,000 white people where their annual income is >75,000 guarantee you those numbers aren't even close.

Now do you want to continue on your implied premise black people be their very nature are more criminal then whites.

Again the point goes over your head. Blacks aren't "more criminal by nature" than whites or other races, just as Palestinians aren't "more terroristic by nature" than Israelis. But both groups have created and actively nurtured a culture they live in that glorifies and normalizes those negative behaviors. Suburban whites don't display lower crime rates and other pathology because they're better people, but instead because the influences of the culture they inhabit are far more positive.

To use a concrete example, if you took a refugee from a similarly violent cultural environment (say Somalia) would you *choose* to put them into an urban black environment if you had any other choice regardless of financial circumstances?

 

[JSt0rm]

You have no idea what you're speaking of, again. But please, continue to troll after me. I won't be replying to your drivel though.

Waaaa you have no idea but I wont give solid reasons why and i wont ever respond again.

Keep showing that cop average iq brain. It looks good on you.

 

[Blackjack200]

Wow, tell me, does any of this sound familiar?

In an 1897 lecture, W. E. B. Du Bois declared, “The first and greatest step toward the settlement of the present friction between the races—commonly called the Negro problem—lies in the correction of the immorality, crime, and laziness among the Negroes themselves, which still remains as a heritage from slavery.” Du Bois’ language anticipated the respectability politics of our own era. “There still remain enough well authenticated cases of brutal assault on women by black men in America to make every Negro bow his head in shame,” Du Bois claimed in 1904. “This crime must at all hazards stop. Lynching is awful, and injustice and caste are hard to bear; but if they are to be successfully attacked they must cease to have even this terrible justification.” Kelly Miller, who was then a leading black intellectual and a professor at Howard University, presaged the call for blacks to be “twice as good,” asserting in 1899 that it was not enough for “ninety-five out of every hundred Negroes” to be lawful. “The ninety-five must band themselves together to restrain or suppress the vicious five.”

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...mily-in-the-age-of-mass-incarceration/403246/