tips for better gas mileage with my manual transmission car?

[tortillasoup]

Check engine light is gone. It seems like it disappeared with warmer weather.

So the aveo does not have a fuel shutoff during engine braking. Well i'll be.

Lots of people don't recommend coasting in neutral but I don't see the problem. For the most part you coast in neutral while going downhill, during which you do not need extra power, just extra braking.

I wish I could bike commute, but the hills make that unlikely. And the highway section too.

Could be O2 sensor, could also be you have a partially stuck open thermostat and the car wasn't getting fully warmed up. The Code is stored, you should definitely check it out and resolve the issue.

 

[Viperoni]

I can confirm that my GF's 2011 Aveo is completely gutless. It is the auto tranny verison, which doesn't help, but it's 0-60 is around 10seconds.
Passing on the highway REQUIRES giving it enough throttle input so it'll downshift into a lower gear - and even then pulling from 60-80mph takes a long time.


FWIW, we just did a roadtrip in her Aveo, and over ~270miles we burned approx. 10.5 gallons, 75% of that distance was cruising on the highway @ 80mph. That's ~26mpg.

 

[OverVolt]

Check engine light is gone. It seems like it disappeared with warmer weather.

So the aveo does not have a fuel shutoff during engine braking. Well i'll be.

Lots of people don't recommend coasting in neutral but I don't see the problem. For the most part you coast in neutral while going downhill, during which you do not need extra power, just extra braking.

I wish I could bike commute, but the hills make that unlikely. And the highway section too.

Ditto it should be fine on country roads.

I'll back Zenmervolt because I know that he knows what he is talking about . That said, I decelerate up my hills if you know what I mean. Hit the bottom going 60mph giving steady power at low rpm and crest the top at 45mph and coast down, repeat. Only works for smaller hills of course. Like I was saying it all entirely depends on the hill. The grades around San Fran good luck in anything other than 1st or second gear.

 

[tortillasoup]

Ditto it should be fine on country roads.

I'll back Zenmervolt because I know that he knows what he is talking about . That said, I decelerate up my hills if you know what I mean. Hit the bottom going 60mph giving steady power at low rpm and crest the top at 45mph and coast down, repeat. Only works for smaller hills of course. Like I was saying it all entirely depends on the hill. The grades around San Fran good luck in anything other than 1st or second gear.

Pretty much...

When I drive a stick shift Honda Civic (96-'00), this is pretty much how I drove: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Duykvt4GHBc#t=190

Same shift points and everything, would not consider it lugging... (At least beginning from the time in the video I linked to)

 

[Zenmervolt]

Well like I said, if the engine is making awful noises and shakes badly like something is wrong, then you're probably loading it down too much. I hate to say this but it isn't necessarily an apples to apples comparison as every engine design is different but I think it's safe to say this Aveo can probably handle low RPM shifting. It's true I've driven some cars that just couldn't handle low RPM shifting but those were typically older model vehicles that had less sophisticated computers, etc. You shouldn't make absolute statements like "you absolutely cannot shift before 3K RPM" just because your POS porsche can't...


You might want to take a read on this thread about your crappy volvo.
http://www.matthewsvolvosite.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=62742&p=323058

My sister in law owns a Volvo S60 which is a 5-speed transmission and it will happily shift even as low as 1500 rpm while the transmission you mentioned is a 4-speed. So not only could your transmission have a problem with not being able to shift early (the thread I linked to mentions 3K rpm shifting problem) but you may not be aware of the shift points.

I have to ask, do you actually own any vehicles with some form of variable valve timing? Or are all of your vehicles 15 year old+ euro trash vehicles?

Ahh, and now you're accusing my cars of being crap. Should have seen that coming.

Please show me where I said "you absolutely cannot shift below 3,000 RPM." If you're having trouble, here's some help, I never said that. In fact, of the two of us, you've made far more absolute statements. All I've said is that in a car with as little power as the Aveo has, and an engine that is clearly designed to make power at higher RPM (the 3,800 RPM torque peak) it's ridiculously stupid to upshift at 2,000 RPM. That's a heavily qualified statement that applies to a very limited subset of vehicles. You're the one who's making categorical statements about "all" vehicles.

The link about the Volvo simply proves what I said. That the shift maps are hard-coded and do not adjust to driving style.

The specific point at which the transmission shifts is not fixed (it will vary with engine load and throttle position), but the map it uses is fixed. The shift points in that link mentioned by other drivers correspond with the minimum upshift points I've seen in my driving and equate to upshifts occurring between 2,400 to 2,600 RPM depending on the gear. Didn't you say that there were "no cars" where you couldn't make an automatic shift below 2,000 RPM? Seems like your blanket statement doesn't fit here. Shocking that.

Again, I'm not saying that you can't have the engine below 2,000 RPM. Please try to get that through your head. I'm saying that if you treat 2,000 RPM as a redline on a car like the Aveo you will be getting rear ended by bicycles because the acceleration you'll get is best described as "glacial" and it's not a plausible strategy for going up hills.

I'm sure you'll come back again and argue about something that I didn't say because you're basically fleabag or LOUISSSS, but I'm done here.

ZV

 

[Yuriman]

My mother in law has a 90's Civic that, with light throttle, will shift as low as ~1700RPM. Give it a bit more gas and you can bring that shift point up to 6800RPM. You have to be trying to get less than 40MPG in her car.

Some food for thought:

Shift points don't matter as much for the reasons most people believe. At higher RPMs and throttle positions, ECUs are likely to begin enriching the mixture, but as long as you're not flooring it and going for the redline, it isn't likely to hurt your fuel economy (much) directly. The problem with shifting high is that you're accelerating more quickly and will tend to have a higher average speed. In stop-and-go environments (i.e. cities), a higher average speed between stops means you're using more energy to get from one traffic light to the next.

Cruising in less than top gear (not accelerating) *will* hurt your fuel economy though.

 

[kitatech]

My mother in law has a 90's Civic that, with light throttle, will shift as low as ~1700RPM. Give it a bit more gas and you can bring that shift point up to 6800RPM. You have to be trying to get less than 40MPG in her car.

Some food for thought:

Shift points don't matter as much for the reasons most people believe. At higher RPMs and throttle positions, ECUs are likely to begin enriching the mixture, but as long as you're not flooring it and going for the redline, it isn't likely to hurt your fuel economy (much) directly. The problem with shifting high is that you're accelerating more quickly and will tend to have a higher average speed. In stop-and-go environments (i.e. cities), a higher average speed between stops means you're using more energy to get from one traffic light to the next.

Cruising in less than top gear (not accelerating) *will* hurt your fuel economy though.

Engine braking that cruising at less than top gear engages DFCO on cars that have it...the AVEO doesn't...and actually allows for more cruising without constant (if gentle) accelerating/braking all the time on cars that just roll and roll and roll (on LRR tires) in top gears...

....and hasn't seemed to affect MPG very much of the Camry...recording 24mpg in town, higher than EPA city driving estimates...though I do admit I have yet to try a tank-full of city cruising @ 2k rather than my usual 2.5k rpm .....
My shift points are typically (when not under heavy acceleration)
3.5-4k RPM into 2nd
3-3.5k into 3rd where I'll stay until speed limit is 40 because in 4th the LRR of the Camry will take me to 45 MPH if I'm not careful and risk a ticket...also I get more torquey response in 3rd/2.5-3k rpm, good for changing lanes quickly and safely...
2.5k into 4th when the speed limit is 45...and get to cruise as high as 55 without worrying about a ticket...

 

[Zenmervolt]

My mother in law has a 90's Civic that, with light throttle, will shift as low as ~1700RPM.

I doubt it's up-shifting into the next gear at 1,700 RPM. I can believe that it will occasionally upshift and that after the shift is completed the RPM drops to 1,700 RPM though.

On second thought, I could see it upshifting from 1st to second at very low RPM under certain conditions too, but that would be something like parking lot speeds and accelerations.

ZV

 

[AdamK47]

Bought a new 2014 Chevy Spark a few weeks ago. It has a massive 1.25L engine with a whopping 84hp connected to a racing inspired 5 speed manual transmission. Was getting around 35 MPG for the first few days I owned it. Now I'm consistently getting between 38 MPG and 42 MPG to and from work. My drive is 26 miles one way. SE Louisiana is also completely flat, which helps a lot.

 

[desura]

Bought a new 2014 Chevy Spark a few weeks ago. It has a massive 1.25L engine with a whopping 84hp connected to a racing inspired 5 speed manual transmission. Was getting around 35 MPG for the first few days I owned it. Now I'm consistently getting between 38 MPG and 42 MPG to and from work. My drive is 26 miles one way. SE Louisiana is also completely flat, which helps a lot.

you know, when you consider the extra emissions associated with the manufacture of hybrid and electric cars, overall a small car like the spark might be better for the environment.

 

[AdamK47]

... and much better for the wallet.

 

[Yuriman]

I doubt it's up-shifting into the next gear at 1,700 RPM. I can believe that it will occasionally upshift and that after the shift is completed the RPM drops to 1,700 RPM though.

On second thought, I could see it upshifting from 1st to second at very low RPM under certain conditions too, but that would be something like parking lot speeds and accelerations.

ZV

I had the car for a few months and had a lot of time to play with it. Believe it or not, it will drop into 4th at just over 30MPH if you let off the gas.

 

[desura]

... and much better for the wallet.

That I'm not entirely sure about. You can get a used gen 3 Prius for as low as 12k. Heck I saw a low mileage 2011 Nissan leaf for 14.5k today. Both would deliver lower fuel costs and maintenance than the spark.

 

[pauldun170]

Engine braking that cruising at less than top gear engages DFCO on cars that have it...the AVEO doesn't...and actually allows for more cruising without constant (if gentle) accelerating/braking all the time on cars that just roll and roll and roll (on LRR tires) in top gears...

....and hasn't seemed to affect MPG very much of the Camry...recording 24mpg in town, higher than EPA city driving estimates...though I do admit I have yet to try a tank-full of city cruising @ 2k rather than my usual 2.5k rpm .....
My shift points are typically (when not under heavy acceleration)
3.5-4k RPM into 2nd
3-3.5k into 3rd where I'll stay until speed limit is 40 because in 4th the LRR of the Camry will take me to 45 MPH if I'm not careful and risk a ticket...also I get more torquey response in 3rd/2.5-3k rpm, good for changing lanes quickly and safely...
2.5k into 4th when the speed limit is 45...and get to cruise as high as 55 without worrying about a ticket...

I have the same car and I tend to shift 2K-3K into second and in the low to mid 2's for the rest. For around town I'll even shift earlier.
If I'm hopping on a highway then obviously I'm going to use more of the power band

 

[tortillasoup]

you know, when you consider the extra emissions associated with the manufacture of hybrid and electric cars, overall a small car like the spark might be better for the environment.

You buy a Prius because you want a Midsize car with good fuel economy... Obviously it would be more environmentally friendly to go with a smaller car with slightly worse fuel economy but that would be a downgrade. Also with the Prius, you're getting a Midsize vehicle with high reliability and low maintenance compared with most vehicles.

 

[kitatech]

I have the same car and I tend to shift 2K-3K into second and in the low to mid 2's for the rest. For around town I'll even shift earlier.

This sounds more reasonable...I kinda think I must shift more in the 3k than 3.5k...at least on paper, as I read your account....I'll check my shifting again.

 

[AdamK47]

You buy a Prius because you want a Midsize car with good fuel economy... Obviously it would be more environmentally friendly to go with a smaller car with slightly worse fuel economy but that would be a downgrade. Also with the Prius, you're getting a Midsize vehicle with high reliability and low maintenance compared with most vehicles.

Don't forget about the smug. The smug factor is higher with a Prius.

 

[pauldun170]

This sounds more reasonable...I kinda think I must shift more in the 3k than 3.5k...at least on paper, as I read your account....I'll check my shifting again.

This morning I paid attention to my shifting.
Between 2 and 2.5. Didn't even have to exceed 3K to get on highway

 

[OverVolt]

Used Prius Hmm... doesn't the battery start to degrade? Hmm...

 

[Yuriman]

Used Prius Hmm... doesn't the battery start to degrade? Hmm...

Won't work for OP, but I'm currently looking for a used first-gen Insight. Even if the battery is dead, you can replace it for about $500 and get another 6-10 years useful life out of it.

Can't speak for the costs of a battery in a Prius, but I'd be surprised if they were prohibitively expensive.

 

[desura]

Used Prius Hmm... doesn't the battery start to degrade? Hmm...

according to priuschat some have lasted as long as 300k miles. Also the cost of replacing the battery is offset by not having to replace the transmission system or timing belt or brakes like you would have to in a regular car.

And if you shop around the battery pack can be found for like $1500, which sucks but again is in line with replacing a transmission.

 

[Zenmervolt]

I had the car for a few months and had a lot of time to play with it. Believe it or not, it will drop into 4th at just over 30MPH if you let off the gas.

Interesting. Most of the '90s cars I've worked with won't drop into overdrive until about 45 and then only if you're on level ground and not accelerating.

ZV

 

[kitatech]

I have the same car and I tend to shift 2K-3K into second and in the low to mid 2's for the rest. For around town I'll even shift earlier.
If I'm hopping on a highway then obviously I'm going to use more of the power band

This sounds more reasonable...I kinda think I must shift more in the 3k than 3.5k...at least on paper, as I read your account....I'll check my shifting again.

This morning I paid attention to my shifting.
Between 2 and 2.5. Didn't even have to exceed 3K to get on highway

That's funny....I tracked my RPMs as I said I would, and my typical shift points is as I indicated, 3.5-4k....unless I'm accelerating real slowly among other cars, and then it's 3k-3.5k RPMs...never shifted below 3k...

 

[kitatech]

I have the same car [Toyota Camry I4 with MT] and I tend to shift 2K-3K into second and in the low to mid 2's for the rest. For around town I'll even shift earlier.
If I'm hopping on a highway then obviously I'm going to use more of the power band

Just sent you a PM but thought I might just ask here...what kind of MPG do you get driving around town...?

I'd like to compare it (very roughly I understand) to my driving/typical shifting @ 1k higher than you...I get 24+ on tankfuls with no highway miles..

Thanks...

 

[pauldun170]

Just sent you a PM but thought I might just ask here...what kind of MPG do you get driving around town...?

I'd like to compare it (very roughly I understand) to my driving/typical shifting @ 1k higher than you...I get 24+ on tankfuls with no highway miles..

Thanks...

I replied.
I get about the same (though most of my driving is REALLY short trips)

I'm also right in the mix with flow of traffic. Its not like I'm accelerating slowly.