Tipping and race - is there a correlation.......

Ryan

Lifer
Oct 31, 2000
27,519
2
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This is water I'd like not to tread on, and we don't do it at my store. But After becoming a member of http://www.tipthepizzaguy.com, this issue seems kind of unavoidable (well, at least, on their forums - every time I visit someone is mentioning it).

Here's a link to the thread, most notably the third post down: http://www.tipthepizzaguy.com/discussion/thread.cgi?num=986&ipg=1&ils=1005&abs=1005

Here is a great post from BIGDAWG ""posted 7/19/04 7:52:29 AM I have delivered pizza off and on for about 20 years. I have pretty much delivered in the same area in Philadelphia for the 5 different mom-pop shops. For the first 4 stores, I generally delivered to old established customers and most of them were white. The neighborhood has changed over those years (more black and Hispanic) and the store I work for now serves many of those folks. Only about half of our customers are white, with the other half being black and Hispanic.

Well, the drivers at the new store told me that they hate delivering to blacks, as they don't tip very well. Never having had a large customer base other than whites, I was a little skeptical. So, to prove the other drivers wrong, I kept good records over a month long period of time (8 nights) and here is what I discovered:

Total customers : 198 (103 white, 76 black, 19 other)

Total tips : $297.94 ($218.94 from whites, $54.37 blacks, $24.63 other)

% of customers by race: 52% white, 38% black, 10% other

Avg tip : $1.50 ($2.05 white, $.72 black, $1.30 other)

total stiffs : 63 (10 white, 46 black, 7 other)

% of customers stiffing by race : 9.7% white, 60.5% black, 36.8 other

Avg tip (excluding stiffers): $2.35 white, $1.81 black, $2.05 other


* When I say "other", I really mean that I couldn't tell what they were. Some Hispanics look black and others look white. If the customer's name was Hispanic or if they were obviously Hispanic, they were included in this group, along with the other folks who I couldn't tell.

This is by no means a scientific survey, only the personal observations of a random pizza delivery guy.

Although I hate to admit it, I see the same trend when delivering. I'll be the first to admit that these results are not always true. Strictly from a sociological standpoint, why do you think there is such a strong correlation between the amount a person chooses to tip, and a persons race? Please keep this thread civilized :thumbsup:
 

bcterps

Platinum Member
Aug 31, 2000
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FWIW, I've had friends that worked as waiters at restaurants (TGI Fridays, Bugaboo Creek Steakhouse) and have told me that they have always received the worst tips from black people.
 

Jumpem

Lifer
Sep 21, 2000
10,757
3
81
I'm white and I generally tip in the 10-15% range. I guess that's low but I don't need to leave a waitress $5-10 for just taking an order and carrying food to my table.
 

beer

Lifer
Jun 27, 2000
11,169
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I waited tables and benchiu is pretty on the spot. Asians are funny though too - more than a few tip to the exact cent of where they're supposed to - EXACTLY 15%, EXACTLY 18.5%, or EXACTLY 20% it seems - as if done with a calculator.

There is definitely no coorelation between income and tip %. A guy driving a Viper gave me 15%; a young couple would give me 25%. It all evens out to about 18.5% for me over the course of a shift - after tip-out I'd walk with 15% which was nice.
 

isasir

Diamond Member
Aug 8, 2000
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I've heard this before as well. I'd be curious to know if the pizza guy was white or black (or other). If he's white, then maybe there's a possible explanation with regard to the pizza guy's race. If he's black, then the explanation would likely center on the customer solely.
 

fredtam

Diamond Member
Jun 6, 2003
5,694
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Given current test scores maybe they just can't figure the percentages properly.
 

esun

Platinum Member
Nov 12, 2001
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I think this tipping phenomenon, so to speak, is probably not a direct result of race, but of other factors that also parallel race in general. For example, there are a variety of socioeconomic standards that you could see discrepancies in whites and blacks (and other races) in, including education, salary, etc. I believe these are the primary factors that contribute to this difference in tipping amounts and frequency, not simply the race (but I think everyone already knew this).
 

DougK62

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2001
8,035
6
81
If black people wouldn't buy so much cocaine they'd have more money to tip.

The white people are all rich and drive new Toyotas so they can afford to tip.

Latinos are usually bombed off tequila so you only get a tip if they're sober.
 

DougK62

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2001
8,035
6
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Originally posted by: isasir
I've heard this before as well. I'd be curious to know if the pizza guy was white or black (or other). If he's white, then maybe there's a possible explanation with regard to the pizza guy's race. If he's black, then the explanation would likely center on the customer solely.

That would be interesting to know!
 

fredtam

Diamond Member
Jun 6, 2003
5,694
2
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Originally posted by: esun
I think this tipping phenomenon, so to speak, is probably not a direct result of race, but of other factors that also parallel race in general. For example, there are a variety of socioeconomic standards that you could see discrepancies in whites and blacks (and other races) in, including education, salary, etc. I believe these are the primary factors that contribute to this difference in tipping amounts and frequency, not simply the race (but I think everyone already knew this).

You haven't worked in F&B have you. I've seen it first hand and there is definately a correlation.
 

fredtam

Diamond Member
Jun 6, 2003
5,694
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Originally posted by: DougK62
Originally posted by: isasir
I've heard this before as well. I'd be curious to know if the pizza guy was white or black (or other). If he's white, then maybe there's a possible explanation with regard to the pizza guy's race. If he's black, then the explanation would likely center on the customer solely.

That would be interesting to know!

I've heard black waiters complain about the tips black people leave.
 

MaxDSP

Lifer
May 15, 2001
10,056
0
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Originally posted by: DougK62
If black people wouldn't buy so much cocaine they'd have more money to tip.

The white people are all rich and drive new Toyotas so they can afford to tip.

Latinos are usually bombed off tequila so you only get a tip if they're sober.

here's the fuel, there's the fire...:beer::D
 

Jumpem

Lifer
Sep 21, 2000
10,757
3
81
So what about people like me that can afford to tip 25%, but usually tip around 10% simply because I don't think someone working a job like that should be making more than $10 an hour?
 

Ryan

Lifer
Oct 31, 2000
27,519
2
81
Originally posted by: Jumpem
So what about people like me that can afford to tip 25%, but usually tip around 10% simply because I don't think someone working a job like that should be making more than $10 an hour?

What about a pizza delivery driver? They certainly do more work than waiters do, do you think they should get more?
 

DougK62

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2001
8,035
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So let's assume that blacks DO tip worse then other races. Anyone have an idea why?
 

azazyel

Diamond Member
Oct 6, 2000
5,872
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I give 2 bones to anyone who brings food to my door. I just wish I could get beer delivered.
 

Jumpem

Lifer
Sep 21, 2000
10,757
3
81
Originally posted by: rbloedow
Originally posted by: Jumpem
So what about people like me that can afford to tip 25%, but usually tip around 10% simply because I don't think someone working a job like that should be making more than $10 an hour?

What about a pizza delivery driver? They certainly do more work than waiters do, do you think they should get more?

More than a waitress in a restaurant, absolutely. But remember none of these jobs require any real amount of education. They should not be making close to or more than entry level engineers in my opinion. That is why I'm a small tipper.
 

slycat

Diamond Member
Jul 18, 2001
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of course...other way round..

ASIAN WAITERS/WAITRESSES get tipped the LEAST!
 

beer

Lifer
Jun 27, 2000
11,169
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Jumpem -

I hope you never patronize the same restaurant on a regular basis. Staff do talk. 10% is insulting.
 

mugs

Lifer
Apr 29, 2003
48,924
45
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Why didn't he include the average bill amount, since tips are generally a percentage of the bill?
 

Anubis

No Lifer
Aug 31, 2001
78,716
417
126
tbqhwy.com
Originally posted by: beer
Jumpem -

I hope you never patronize the same restaurant on a regular basis. Staff do talk. 10% is insulting.

why? they should be glad they get anything at all

the US is the only country that tipping is required in, most other countried dont allow it and find it rude to tip

just pay them a normal wage and dont worry about the tips
 

Jumpem

Lifer
Sep 21, 2000
10,757
3
81
Originally posted by: beer
Jumpem -

I hope you never patronize the same restaurant on a regular basis. Staff do talk. 10% is insulting.

Actually I do since I tend to go to the same place once I find one where I am satisfied by what they have to offer.

10% is plenty for a waitress. They'll easily make $10-15/hr. with that.
 

NakaNaka

Diamond Member
Aug 29, 2000
6,304
1
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There is definitely a relationship between race and tipping though to see if there is a correlation, tbere would have to more of a study done.

Personally, I tip about 3 bucks to the delivery guys here in NYC. At a restaurant, I double the tax. (so thats about 17-18%, I add a few bucks if it is a very good job.)

But back to the question at hand - it could have to do with blacks having less money. It could be reverse racism (blacks dont like white delivery guys) ... But an average of 72 cents to the delivery guy is pathetic. Rude ass people.
 

GasX

Lifer
Feb 8, 2001
29,033
6
81
Originally posted by: Jumpem
Originally posted by: rbloedow
Originally posted by: Jumpem
So what about people like me that can afford to tip 25%, but usually tip around 10% simply because I don't think someone working a job like that should be making more than $10 an hour?

What about a pizza delivery driver? They certainly do more work than waiters do, do you think they should get more?

More than a waitress in a restaurant, absolutely. But remember none of these jobs require any real amount of education. They should not be making close to or more than entry level engineers in my opinion. That is why I'm a small tipper.
So, a guy taking an entry level position so he can get ahead and make a lot of money down the road deserves to be paid more than someone who waits tables just because they know how to match the pens in their pocket protector to their clip on tie?