timing your workouts and meals properly

[Titan]

I try to follow some general rules with regards to my sleep cycle. I have a normal 9-5 job and a 3 minute commute. My goal as of now is a lot of weight (fat) loss. I have some simple guidelines: I drink 2 big glasses of water in the morning right when I wake up, and I try not to eat 4 hours before bed, but I do drink water right before bed. That's it. I tend to workout in the evening after my 6PM dinner by like 8-9PM then go home, maybe get a whey shake and get to bed by midnight and get up around 8AM.


I was just wondering if there's any solid evidence that working out in the morning is better than the evening. I've heard that your body has an abundance of cortisol (hormone for dealing with stress) in the morning and it naturally tapers off during the evening. Cortisol can impede weight loss I'm told, so if I did my cardio first thing, like 7AM, would that help weight loss more? Or should I not and save that cortisol for coping with stress at work as a programmer? Right now working out in the evenings is fine for me (3 days a week)

I hear the body has a lot of hormonal and glandular cycles associated with night/day or at least out sleep patterns. I believe though, that the human body can adapt and change and we're all different.

Just wondering if there's any interesting info.

 

[Kipper]

Originally posted by: Titan
I try to follow some general rules with regards to my sleep cycle. I have a normal 9-5 job and a 3 minute commute. My goal as of now is a lot of weight (fat) loss. I have some simple guidelines: I drink 2 big glasses of water in the morning right when I wake up, and I try not to eat 4 hours before bed, but I do drink water right before bed. That's it. I tend to workout in the evening after my 6PM dinner by like 8-9PM then go home, maybe get a whey shake and get to bed by midnight and get up around 8AM.


I was just wondering if there's any solid evidence that working out in the morning is better than the evening. I've heard that your body has an abundance of cortisol (hormone for dealing with stress) in the morning and it naturally tapers off during the evening. Cortisol can impede weight loss I'm told, so if I did my cardio first thing, like 7AM, would that help weight loss more? Or should I not and save that cortisol for coping with stress at work as a programmer? Right now working out in the evenings is fine for me (3 days a week)

I hear the body has a lot of hormonal and glandular cycles associated with night/day or at least out sleep patterns. I believe though, that the human body can adapt and change and we're all different.

Just wondering if there's any interesting info.

There's nothing particularly helpful about your "guidelines" that would encourage weight loss. Water in the morning? Obviously - you haven't drunk anything for hours - most people are by some measure dehydrated in the morning. Will it help you lose weight? No. Eating breakfast, however, WILL (by helping stave off mid-morning cravings). If anything, you are hurting your recovery by not consuming a square meal after a workout (of course, this does depend on how strenuous it is). If your shying away from food near bedtime is related anything to that MYTH about not eating before bed, then stop. If you get heartburn or can't sleep, that's understandable.

I recall reading a study at some point that showed improvements in workouts done toward the evening, with the rationale that the body is more limber, you are generally more mentally focused, etc. I can't remember the particulars of it, however. For all intents and purposes, trying to plan workouts around diurnal hormonal cycles is a pointless use of your time (not to mention you can't really "save" the cortisol, as you suggest - its levels fluctuate naturally in response to stress). Do whatever fits into your schedule. If that is 5AM or 12PM, nobody cares. Ultimately, if you want to lose more weight you are going to have to move more and eat less. I'm not sure if your schedule permits, but since your job is fairly sedentary (most jobs are) you may want to up your frequency of workouts or find some way to incorporate more activity in your life either through hobbies or other activities. This assumes, of course, that you aren't seeing the results you want.

...And how the heck do you have a 3-minute commute?

 

[Titan]

Originally posted by: Kipper

There's nothing particularly helpful about your "guidelines" that would encourage weight loss. Water in the morning? Obviously - you haven't drunk anything for hours - most people are by some measure dehydrated in the morning. Will it help you lose weight? No. Eating breakfast, however, WILL (by helping stave off mid-morning cravings). If anything, you are hurting your recovery by not consuming a square meal after a workout (of course, this does depend on how strenuous it is). If your shying away from food near bedtime is related anything to that MYTH about not eating before bed, then stop. If you get heartburn or can't sleep, that's understandable.

I recall reading a study at some point that showed improvements in workouts done toward the evening, with the rationale that the body is more limber, you are generally more mentally focused, etc. I can't remember the particulars of it, however. For all intents and purposes, trying to plan workouts around diurnal hormonal cycles is a pointless use of your time (not to mention you can't really "save" the cortisol, as you suggest - its levels fluctuate naturally in response to stress). Do whatever fits into your schedule. If that is 5AM or 12PM, nobody cares. Ultimately, if you want to lose more weight you are going to have to move more and eat less. I'm not sure if your schedule permits, but since your job is fairly sedentary (most jobs are) you may want to up your frequency of workouts or find some way to incorporate more activity in your life either through hobbies or other activities. This assumes, of course, that you aren't seeing the results you want.

...And how the heck do you have a 3-minute commute?

Thanks for that. My workouts for now are just 30-minutes cardio and I either eat some almonds or do a whey shake. Since I'm not lifting yet I don't feel I need too much protein. Drinking water in the morning does help my body get going, as does breakfast, I noticed. It's a key point for me because 10 years ago in HS I used to run 2.5 miles every morning and I never ate or drank anything in the morning, not even a sip of water because my stomach would cramp. But I now know how dumb that was.

I have found eating before bed does make it harder for me to sleep, so I avoid it, and feel more rested most mornings, and in need of breakfast.

I live .8 miles from work, up a steep hill in a city. I have sidewalk all the way and could walk to work but I don't like going back up that hill, it's not safe in the winter, and I drive home for lunch which is nice, so I'd rather have a 3-5 minute drive than a 15 minute walk to save time and get things done.

 

[NGC_604]

Originally posted by: Titan
My goal as of now is a lot of weight (fat) loss.

You're going to lose muscle along with that fat if you only keep doing cardio and not lifting to some extent. Start lifting and you'll reach your fat loss goals much quicker.

 

[Titan]

Originally posted by: energydan

Originally posted by: Titan
My goal as of now is a lot of weight (fat) loss.

You're going to lose muscle along with that fat if you only keep doing cardio and not lifting to some extent. Start lifting and you'll reach your fat loss goals much quicker.

I know. Thanks for the reminder. I do appreciate it. I'm just taking things one step at a time to get to the right place. I just started a diet and cardio 2 weeks ago and once I have it down to second nature, before another 2 weeks, I'll start a lifting program. As the saying goes, break your habits one at a time. At my current weight and the intensity I'm doing cardio I have been building some muscle because I weigh so much.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Originally posted by: Titan

Originally posted by: energydan

Originally posted by: Titan
My goal as of now is a lot of weight (fat) loss.

You're going to lose muscle along with that fat if you only keep doing cardio and not lifting to some extent. Start lifting and you'll reach your fat loss goals much quicker.

I know. Thanks for the reminder. I do appreciate it. I'm just taking things one step at a time to get to the right place. I just started a diet and cardio 2 weeks ago and once I have it down to second nature, before another 2 weeks, I'll start a lifting program. As the saying goes, break your habits one at a time. At my current weight and the intensity I'm doing cardio I have been building some muscle because I weigh so much.

To be perfectly honest, I would suggest fixing diet first and getting on a lifting program rather than just starting cardio. Your will see results, but they won't quite be the results you're looking for. In the fat loss sticky, I mention this for a reason. You can replace the time you allocate to your cardio with your weight lifting and, in doing that, you can lose a much improved proportion of fat. Think about it, man. A lifting program in fat loss is a close second to diet. Cardio, during weight loss, is almost optional.

 

[NAC]

Do you do 30 minutes of cardio M-F every day?

I recommend giving walking to work more of a try, weather permitting. I walk a total of 1.5 miles each way, with a long train ride in between. The total time of 1.5 hours each way sucks, but I love the walking part. If it rains for a few days and I have to take the subway, I really miss my "cardio".

If you don't really build up a sweat doing cardio at the gym, you'll get the same exercise from walking and actually save time since you wont need to do cardio at the gym. Or have more time for some weight lifting. Or walk and do cardio and hence get even more exercise. Depending on the situation at work, you might be able to later upgrade to running each way, if you can change/shower when needed.

I think the walking can become a habit which is difficult to break, whereas going to the gym to run on a treadmill or something is a difficult habit to establish and easy to break. At least IMO. The walking/running becomes your mental downtime, at the convenient spots of immediately before and after work.

As to when to workout: I don't know what is best for your body. But I do agree with others - that the most important thing is to do it, whenever is convenient.

 

[Titan]

Originally posted by: NAC
Do you do 30 minutes of cardio M-F every day?

I recommend giving walking to work more of a try, weather permitting. I walk a total of 1.5 miles each way, with a long train ride in between. The total time of 1.5 hours each way sucks, but I love the walking part. If it rains for a few days and I have to take the subway, I really miss my "cardio".

If you don't really build up a sweat doing cardio at the gym, you'll get the same exercise from walking and actually save time since you wont need to do cardio at the gym. Or have more time for some weight lifting. Or walk and do cardio and hence get even more exercise. Depending on the situation at work, you might be able to later upgrade to running each way, if you can change/shower when needed.

I think the walking can become a habit which is difficult to break, whereas going to the gym to run on a treadmill or something is a difficult habit to establish and easy to break. At least IMO. The walking/running becomes your mental downtime, at the convenient spots of immediately before and after work.

As to when to workout: I don't know what is best for your body. But I do agree with others - that the most important thing is to do it, whenever is convenient.

I've done daily morning runs before so I know how that feels. I live on a hill in a woodsy town and I have some great places to walk and hike, I've planned out a couple routes in the past. I just need to shift my routine early enough to walk before work. I'm going to try and shift my evening workouts at the gym from cardio to heavy weight, and then bring back morning walks. I have some life events to shift in a couple weeks before I restart the walks, but am changing to weights tomorrow.

I don't like walking to work because I like coming home for lunch for a bit. It makes me feel home and I keep my bearings. Also even when I was in shape, I tend to be a sweaty guy, I don't like being sticky at my desk. I attack the elliptical at the gym and my shirt gets soaked after 30 minutes. Last night I did an even higher pace than before, I like it because I can get close to running without hurting my joints.

But as of now, I wake up early, pee, drink some water and cranberry juice, then kinda lay around for 30 minutes in bed with my GF before I make breakfast. I want to replace that 30 minutes with walking, but I should budget an hour for daily walking.

 

[Titan]

Guys, can we try to get this thread back on topic? I didn't mean to focus on my workouts, just timing patterns in general.

For example, I've heard people say you should eat complex carbs before a workout and then protein after to repair muscle. Any truth to this? I would imagine you need to give the first meal at least 30 minutes to digest, I hate working out with food in my gut.

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: Titan
Guys, can we try to get this thread back on topic? I didn't mean to focus on my workouts, just timing patterns in general.

For example, I've heard people say you should eat complex carbs before a workout and then protein after to repair muscle. Any truth to this? I would imagine you need to give the first meal at least 30 minutes to digest, I hate working out with food in my gut.

It's called bracketing. You take protein/carbs before to fuel your workout (so you don't burn any precious muscle), and protein/carbs after (within 45 minutes) because that is the time your body will be able to absorb nutrients at its maximum. It works for powerlifters, I did it for a decade. If you're really hardcore about your gains, you'll set your alarm at 3am and eat protein like Mr. Olympia - Jay Cutler. 😉

Regarding sleep cycles, studies show that testosterone levels are at their highest in the morning. Whether this amounts to better lifts, I don't know. I would hypothesize that you would be able to repair muscle better with higher testosterone levels but I'd have to do some research on studies regarding this.

 

[InflatableBuddha]

I've tried lifting both in the morning and the evening. While I'm now adjusted to waking up early to do workouts, I find I can't push as hard in the mornings. However, when I do my gym sessions, I prefer the mornings since the weightroom is almost empty and I can easily access the equipment, compared to the evening rush.

Same goes for cardio - you cannot push as hard in the mornings as you can in the evenings. HIIT is best done in the evenings, but you can do steady walks or runs in the mornings.

Some other things:

It's great that you drink water when you wake up. Are you also drinking water throughout the day to stay hydrated? This has the additional benefit of suppressing your appetite slightly so you will eat a bit less.

I used to keep dinner as my last meal and not eat for hours before bed, as you do. However, I've found that having a snack before bed (30-60 minutes before) helps me recover more quickly and feel a bit more energized in the mornings. Try something light like cottage cheese and fruit; possibly some nuts - shouldn't upset your stomach.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Originally posted by: Titan
Guys, can we try to get this thread back on topic? I didn't mean to focus on my workouts, just timing patterns in general.

For example, I've heard people say you should eat complex carbs before a workout and then protein after to repair muscle. Any truth to this? I would imagine you need to give the first meal at least 30 minutes to digest, I hate working out with food in my gut.

Well, let me say this. Unless you have everything else in line (great diet, hydration, motivation, consistency, etc), timing is negligible. For the average schmo, timing isn't going to be especially helpful. For a high level athlete, it means a little bit more. However, with the level that you're at right now, spending time honing in your diet would be much more beneficial than worrying about how you're timing your nutrition.

Yes, eat something before you workout. Yes, get some protein in after you workout. Other than that, is timing going to effect your macro progress? No. You might catch a workout right at the peak of your testosterone, but really... unless you peak with very high levels, nothing's going to change. Don't go running your life on your rhythms. It won't make a big enough difference.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that aerobic workouts, like you're doing, aren't as effected by testosterone as anaerobic workouts so you shouldn't worry about that anyway if you're not even lifting.

 

[Titan]

Originally posted by: SociallyChallenged

Originally posted by: Titan
Guys, can we try to get this thread back on topic? I didn't mean to focus on my workouts, just timing patterns in general.

For example, I've heard people say you should eat complex carbs before a workout and then protein after to repair muscle. Any truth to this? I would imagine you need to give the first meal at least 30 minutes to digest, I hate working out with food in my gut.

Well, let me say this. Unless you have everything else in line (great diet, hydration, motivation, consistency, etc), timing is negligible. For the average schmo, timing isn't going to be especially helpful. For a high level athlete, it means a little bit more. However, with the level that you're at right now, spending time honing in your diet would be much more beneficial than worrying about how you're timing your nutrition.

Yes, eat something before you workout. Yes, get some protein in after you workout. Other than that, is timing going to effect your macro progress? No. You might catch a workout right at the peak of your testosterone, but really... unless you peak with very high levels, nothing's going to change. Don't go running your life on your rhythms. It won't make a big enough difference.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that aerobic workouts, like you're doing, aren't as effected by testosterone as anaerobic workouts so you shouldn't worry about that anyway if you're not even lifting.

Thanks, SC. Let me just say I do listen and greatly respect your advice on here. I know that doesn't always come across that way especially from me as I am wordy and just trying to cut to the chase in my posts as I look at things from odd angles.

Diet, hydration, motivation, consistency. I got all that. I am meeting with a personal trainer at my gym tomorrow to setup my lifting routine. I'm going to replace 30 minutes of cardio with lifts. I might still walk on my days off.

I have a good friend of mine (Valedictorian in my HS, I was salutatorian) who is a certified nutritionist and has been counseling me on diet. I just finished the first 2 weeks of my diet which was lower cal and a cleanse, but I didn't feel tired or crash but probably lost extra water-wight and muscle mass. That was an important phase for me to get through as I am sure the migraines I was getting for 5 days were sugar withdrawal. I'm following my friend's advice and adding more calories in with protein, I'm just transitioning one diet regimen to another. I'm asking about timing because I need to fit more food in, and I'm thinking 2 shakes a day will do it, once before dinner, and once after evening workout. At my activity level, to not lose weight I need 4300 calories a day, so 3300 is my target to lose 2 pounds a week.

This is my current eating schedule (roughly)
7:30AM - wake up, drink water (sometimes with a bit of cranberry)
8:30AM - breakfast - 3 egg omelet with some chopped parsley and garlic, no-minimal oil.
10:30 - work snack, 1 piece of fruit apples lately
12:30 - lunch - meat, veggies, and up to 1/2 cup (pre-cooked) brown rice
2:30 - snack usually apple again
4:30 protein shake, roughly 400 calories, some EFA's like flax oil mixed in
6:30 dinner, similar to lunch, get at least 1 carrot in there
8:30 or so - protein shake after workout that happens between 8-9.
11-12 before bed - water

I'm just working the shakes in and getting the habit down of bringing one to work after lunch. I drink about 6 liters of spring water a day, between by itself and mixed with shakes. I also have a food scale to use for when I want to get a ballpark on the calories of some food choice. I have been taking 4oz of chia seeds throughout the day for EFAs and fiber, so much easier than flax as I don't have to grind them and they don't spoil. Also I'm avoiding wheat like bread as I might have a gluten sensitivity (wondering if this can be tested), my stomach always feels way bloated after eating it so I'm sticking to brown rice for now and I feel much better.

The bottom line is I listen to my body and do what works.

been going to the gym 3 days a week, that sounds like a good plan for lifting to start. I like the idea of adding walking back in, probably on days off. I am glad of how I attack that elliptical, I am really pushing hard, moving fast, and keeping my legs in shape.

To me, the thing that helps keep me motivated is feeling good and knowing that I'm on the right track. I am so glad to be off junk food, especially refined sugar. My energy levels have been steady and my mood isn't erratic. If there's one thing I am once I get going, it's consistent, which is why when I make changes I want to know I'm on solid ground.

I do have a lot of muscle, and I don't want to lose it, I would rather use it to just burn fat. I will get there.

So I'm just curious about timing practices, wondering if there is any reason to do things differently.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

What you're doing there is great. You will get results solely from doing that. I think it would overwhelm you to think about every single aspect of what you're doing. Timing is a much less important aspect than diet, exercise, and hydration. In fact, I would say the effects at this point are nearly negligible. If you want to do shakes, do one after you work out and one at a time that works best for you. Other than that, keep your diet in check, eat your leafy greens and fruits, and you'll be well on your way to losing weight. I'm just telling you that timing is not THAT important because I don't want you to overload yourself or overthink this process. What you're doing at this point in time will get things done very well. I want to keep that going. I don't want having too many things going on to frustrate you. Forget timing because that's exactly what it will do. Keep chuggin' on and things will fall into place.