Timing CARS (Cash for Clunkers)

[Mears]

I'm planning on trading in my old Dodge truck for a new F150 to take advantage of cash for clunkers (it's worth about $2500 and I'll qualify for the $4500 rebate). I'm in no rush, so I'm wondering when I'll get the best deal. The current incentives ($2500 factory rebates) only run through the end of the month; right around the same time the CARS program should start up. I'm concerned that Ford will reduce its incentives while the program is active.

Right now the two strategies I'm thinking of pursuing are either buying right at the end of this month as soon as CARS goes active to capitalize on the current $2500 factory rebates, or waiting until the end of October when the dealers need to start clearing their inventory for the 2010 models. However, I would risk the CARS program running out of money before that point, and since I'm an X-Plan member with Ford, I don't know if I would get any additional discount anyways.

 

[boomerang]

http://www.autoextremist.com/on-the-table1/

Read the last paragraph for one man's theory.

 

[LTC8K6]

I doubt you will qualify for $4,500 though.




What is the value of the credit for the purchase or lease of a new van, pickup truck or
SUV?
The value of the credit given for the purchase or lease of a category 1 or 2 truck also
generally depends on the difference between the combined fuel economy of the vehicle that is
traded in and that of the new vehicle that is purchased or leased. If the new vehicle is a category
1 truck that has a combined fuel economy value that is at least 2, but less than 5, miles per gallon
higher than the traded-in vehicle, the credit is $3,500. If the new category 1 truck has a
combined fuel economy value that is at least 5 miles per gallon higher than the traded-in vehicle,
the credit is $4,500.

 

[thedarkwolf]

What f-150 are you looking at? Too qualify the new truck has to get 18mpg combined. A 09 f-150 2wd with the 6 speed auto gets 17mpg combined according to www.fueleconomy.gov.

 

[lurk3r]

Dealers are already jacking up prices, damn thieves. And try to find any GM car, every single model you can build online is $22,000, Cobalt, Aura, Malibu, whatever. They're doing their best to make it impossible to do any comparisons.

 

[Mears]

Originally posted by: thedarkwolf
What f-150 are you looking at? Too qualify the new truck has to get 18mpg combined. A 09 f-150 2wd with the 6 speed auto gets 17mpg combined according to www.fueleconomy.gov.

This is wrong. LTC8K6 statements are referring to a category 1 truck. My Dodge W-150 is a category 2 truck, as is a F150. From cars.gov:

A category 2 truck is a large van or a large pickup truck, based upon the length of the wheelbase (more than 115 inches for pickup trucks and more than 124 inches for vans). Note: some pickup trucks and cargo vans exceeding these thresholds are treated as category 3 trucks instead of category 2 trucks.

Since I'm trading in a category 2 truck for another category 2 truck, I only need to purchase a truck that gets 15 mpg, not 18 mpg. From cars.gov:

For category 2 trucks, the new vehicle must have a combined fuel economy value of at least 15 miles per gallon.

And yes, I will qualify for the $4500. My Dodge truck gets an EPA estimated combined 11 MPG, and again, since it is a category 2 trade-in, I only need to purchase a truck that gets 2 MPG better.

If both the new vehicle and the traded-in vehicle are category 2 trucks and the combined fuel economy value of the new vehicle is at least 1, but less than 2, miles per gallon higher than the combined fuel economy value of the traded in vehicle, the credit is $3,500. If both the new vehicle and the traded-in vehicle are category 2 trucks and the combined fuel economy of the new vehicle is at least 2 miles per gallon higher than that of the traded-in vehicle, the credit is $4,500.

I'm planning to get an FX4 Super Crew with a 6.5' bed.

 

[LTC8K6]

So they are calling a plain jane F-150 that everyone drives all over the place a Category 2 truck?

Well, I admit I never would have guessed that...

 

[LTC8K6]

For Cat 2 to Cat 2 the new truck has to get better than 15mpg combined, so that will limit your pickup choices.

http://www.cars.gov/files/day-one.pdf

See page 18 chart...

 

[LTC8K6]

And yes, I will qualify for the $4500. My Dodge truck gets an EPA estimated combined 11 MPG, and again, since it is a category 2 trade-in, I only need to purchase a truck that gets 2 MPG better.

Nope, gotta get at least 15mpg.

 

[Mears]

Originally posted by: LTC8K6

And yes, I will qualify for the $4500. My Dodge truck gets an EPA estimated combined 11 MPG, and again, since it is a category 2 trade-in, I only need to purchase a truck that gets 2 MPG better.

Nope, gotta get at least 15mpg.

Ummmm, I did note that as the second to last point in my last post....

 

[LTC8K6]

That's okay, I forgot where I came in.

I just don't see all that many takers with this deal, so I wouldn't be worried about the deadline.

I would imagine you could get a dealer to value your trade in at $4,500 anyway for the paperwork.

Probably won't matter to you much either way.

 

[ElFenix]

http://www.letfordrecycleyourride.com/default.aspx

 

[Mears]

Originally posted by: LTC8K6
That's okay, I forgot where I came in.

I just don't see all that many takers with this deal, so I wouldn't be worried about the deadline.

I would imagine you could get a dealer to value your trade in at $4,500 anyway for the paperwork.

Probably won't matter to you much either way.

Documentation fees are capped at $75 for X-Plan purchases

 

[thegimp03]

Originally posted by: Mears
I'm planning on trading in my old Dodge truck for a new F150 to take advantage of cash for clunkers (it's worth about $2500 and I'll qualify for the $4500 rebate). I'm in no rush, so I'm wondering when I'll get the best deal. The current incentives ($2500 factory rebates) only run through the end of the month; right around the same time the CARS program should start up. I'm concerned that Ford will reduce its incentives while the program is active.

Right now the two strategies I'm thinking of pursuing are either buying right at the end of this month as soon as CARS goes active to capitalize on the current $2500 factory rebates, or waiting until the end of October when the dealers need to start clearing their inventory for the 2010 models. However, I would risk the CARS program running out of money before that point, and since I'm an X-Plan member with Ford, I don't know if I would get any additional discount anyways.

Doubt that the program will run out of money. Too many people are too financially strapped right now and won't be able to justify buying a brand new car just because they can get a $3500-$4500 voucher towards the purchase.

 

[angry hampster]

Originally posted by: lurk3r
Dealers are already jacking up prices, damn thieves. And try to find any GM car, every single model you can build online is $22,000, Cobalt, Aura, Malibu, whatever. They're doing their best to make it impossible to do any comparisons.

Well wtf do you want a Cobalt with leather interior, a sunroof, and 18" wheels for?



No one understands "economy car" anymore. Just because it's 2009 doesn't mean technology is free.

 

[RU482]

I wonder if I can just call one of these poor schlumps with a 85 v8 Camaro for $250, and tell them I'll give them $750 for their car if they come trade it in with me on a new Civic. Seems like an easy $3750

/baited post

 

[LTC8K6]

Documentation fees are capped at $75 for X-Plan purchases

Not what I meant. Meant they would likely value your truck at $4,500 anyway to make the sale. Just list the trade in value as $4,500 on the paperwork. Even though they aren't really giving you that much for the truck.

Same as they do for most trade ins.

It's just a numbers game.

It's not like you get $4,500 to buy a new vehicle.

The dealer is basically getting $4,500 to scrap your truck. They can still get whatever profit they can manage from the sale of the new vehicle to you, and they will.

 

[rh71]

Originally posted by: LTC8K6
The dealer is basically getting $4,500 to scrap your truck. They can still get whatever profit they can manage from the sale of the new vehicle to you, and they will.

They also have to make the new vehicle $4500 cheaper for him...

 

[lurk3r]

Originally posted by: angry hampster

Originally posted by: lurk3r
Dealers are already jacking up prices, damn thieves. And try to find any GM car, every single model you can build online is $22,000, Cobalt, Aura, Malibu, whatever. They're doing their best to make it impossible to do any comparisons.

Well wtf do you want a Cobalt with leather interior, a sunroof, and 18" wheels for?



No one understands "economy car" anymore. Just because it's 2009 doesn't mean technology is free.

I personally wouldn't be interested in any of the GM econoboxes, but I was trying to help out a buddy that wants something to put miles on for work. According to some of the ads around here we should have been able to find $11,000 cobalts, or $14,400 Chargers. We jacked around online for around an hour, and it got freakin comical how every damn car the gm site pushes you towards ends up at $22k.

The other thing that was very annoying ... he's got several canditates for the CARS program, but the ford site linked above skips anything interesting. He'd take a 6 cyl mustang, which according to the federal site should qualify, but Ford does its best to push you to the junk they want to pimp out.

 

[LTC8K6]

They also have to make the new vehicle $4500 cheaper for him...

Sure, just like they make the new vehicle cheaper by the amount of your trade in... :laugh:

 

[rh71]

Originally posted by: LTC8K6

They also have to make the new vehicle $4500 cheaper for him...

Sure, just like they make the new vehicle cheaper by the amount of your trade in... :laugh:

you're probably not going to get under invoice but you're still going to get under msrp... and then another $4500. You know what they say about never talking trade-in until after the number is agreed upon. They DO NOT lose any money from this gov't mandate... you'll only get the dealers trying to benefit from it and you're just assuming EVERY ONE OF THEM will. If they try to change the number on you after you tell them of a trade-in then you know that's not someone you do business with. Since they don't lose anything from it, would they really risk doing that after the fact?

 

[LTC8K6]

You would likely have to tell them about your clunker up front, though. Prob can't do it like you would a trade in.

They have to verify that the clunker is eligible, that the new car is eligible, that you haven't already used your one voucher with your SSN, and they have to apply for the voucher using all that info to see if it goes through.

 

[rh71]

Originally posted by: LTC8K6
You would likely have to tell them about your clunker up front, though. Prob can't do it like you would a trade in.

They have to verify that the clunker is eligible, that the new car is eligible, that you haven't already used your one voucher with your SSN, and they have to apply for the voucher using all that info to see if it goes through.

If that's the case, it's still not hard to determine a good middle-ground between invoice and msrp. Nobody is paying msrp on cars, especially now.

If it were a regular trade-in, they would screw you of your value of the trade-in vehicle... here it's set. $4500 is a lot of credit which the dealer can't hide anywhere for their own benefit as invoice/msrp differences aren't that great.

 

[LTC8K6]

The program puts all the responsibility for verification on the dealer, and expects the dealer to make the deal first and then wait to get reimbursed from NHTSA.

Of course, dealers don't even have to participate at all.

I can see the dealers being very wary of not getting reimbursed.

 

[LTC8K6]

I never paid anywhere near msrp for a new vehicle. A $4,500 credit can easily disapper in between msrp and invoice and make little difference to the buyer.

Dealers can charge msrp under the program and make a bigger profit, so why wouldn't they?